Tactical Tuesday presents: The Pistol Belt

[Crimson Phoenix]

I'll say this right now, I'm almost three weeks into a month long field course in geologic mapping out in the Chihuahuan Desert in southwest Texas and I'm cursing not having my belt rig almost every day now since it would take the weight out of my pack and directly to my hips where it will ride better. My dad might be older and more experienced than me, but this is one of those few cases where he isn't always right. I listened when he said leave that stuff, and now I'm hurting for it.

[fungusmunkey]

Sorry to necro this (if that is what i'm doing here...) but I have a question!

How do you size a Pistol/Duty belt?

I am assuming that this belt rides over (or maybe lower?) than the belt that is holding up my pants! So do I add a couple/few inches to the size of what my normal belt is? Any general sizing instructions?

thx

[Murph]

Most of these types of belts are adjustable. And yes, you want to wear it in the same general area as your pants belt.

[fungusmunkey]

Thanks!

[AKFTW]

I wear mine just below my pants belt as the buckle of my Spec-Ops Better BDU Belt keeps the pistol belt from riding up at all.

[Aikibiker]

I wear mine right over top of my pants belt held in place with belt keepers.

Look at a cop's belt sometime. They have the pistol belt overlaying their pants belt.

[AKFTW]

I wear mine right over top of my pants belt held in place with belt keepers.

Look at a cop's belt sometime. They have the pistol belt overlaying their pants belt.

Yeah, but what if you are wearing something over your shirt? Do you tuck in your jackets?

[Aikibiker]

I either have a short jacket I can tuck between the holster, a Safariland 6004 on a mid ride belt attachment, and my body or am wearing a jacket with zip out sides meant for law enforcement, etc. that gives a cut out for the pistol and in my case the double M4/M16 magazine pouch I have opposite my pistol. This setup works well in cold weather with the right kind of jacket.

The unfortunate truth when you carry a gun (or any weapon you intend to have readily available for use) your ward robe has to go through some changes. It doesn't matter if you are carrying open or concealed some sort of change will be in order. The type of carry will drive how you dress.

[KnightoftheRoc]

As I mentioned in another thread, I was looking to try out a MOLLE belt, as the latest gear I'm used to is the ALICE setup, which I was issued in the 80's. I found one (with suspenders) on e-bay, around $10.00, and ordered it. The rows of MOLLE webbing on it had an extra layer of double wide (2") strapping behind the 1" straps along the top, assumedly for ALICE clips. I transferred my ALICE stuff from my pistol belt to it, and adjusted the suspenders.

It originally rode pretty comfortable, but the belt was what I paid for- not a heck of a lot. Very shortly into it's use, the front left suspender strap stitching came out of the front of the belt. I also noticed that the suspenders did not like to hold an adjustment, which caused them to start sliding out toward my shoulders, like they were headed for freedom down my arms next- not a comfortable riding rig at all.

What I normally carry on a pistol belt, and in the order I attach them: M1956 buttpack (suspenders attached if I'm using them, this may hold anything from a squad sized FAK, to my lunch) A 1qt. canteen carrier to either side of the buttpack. Left side- machete, or a large knife, riding right on the outside of the hip. Right side- Hunting knife (if using the machete), or a hatchet, again on the outside of the hip. Filling in the front are ammo pouches, holding a personal FAK, an emergency survival kit- basically a BOB in a pouch, ammo if I'm out shooting or hunting, Binocs, and a compass case with a lensatic compass. I try to keep the load of even weight from left side to right, and I find the most comfortable ride height for the pistol belt to be just below the swell of the hip bones, and above the hip joints.

Converting this type of load onto the MOLLE did not work out too well, in my case. I'm pretty sure this was caused primarily by two factors- 1, I got a CHEAP belt- the construction of it pretty much sucks, and there isn't even a manufacturer's label on it, so it's most likely a knockoff. 2, I was using ALICE clips throughout, when the belt is designed for MOLLE straps, with the OCCASIONAL ALICE item included, and probably not of the weight I had on it. Something light, like the compass pouch, did not seem to cause any issues.

What I was looking to do, hopefully, was to catch the wide back padding with the kidney belt of the ALICE frame. It didn't work out- I'm just too tall (6'-2"), and it's pretty evenly distributed between a long torso and long legs. What i DID find that worked, was rigging my tent roll under the ALICE frame and pack, where it fills the space between the buttpack and the back pack, allowing the buttpack/suspender/pistol belt to support more of the pack weight on the hips. Not the ideal arrangement, but- it does allow the weight to ride better, instead of pressing right above my back injury, it still allows me to drop the pack without dropping the belt line, and neither item interferes with the other.

On the issue of item slippage, for what it's worth- I find the ALICE clips, used on a grommeted pistol belt, run into the grommets, and sort of jam there, keeping the pouches where I put them, with MAYBE a 1/2" range of motion, if that. I've never found a need for keepers or belt loops, but since people come in many shapes and sizes, my experience may easily NOT be yours.

Interesting (maybe) historical note- the grommets on the pistol belt were installed in two rows for a reason, and it's NOT so the belt can be flipped over for lefties, which is one theory I've heard a lot for some reason. The bottom row is for attaching items, using the m1910 style hooks- the ones that look like some kind of a wire puzzle piece made out of an old hanger, and the top row is for attaching the suspender harness of the rest of your gear- the M1923 haversack, M194X combat pack, or the M195X LBE gear. The ALICE suspenders simply picked up where the Korean era gear left off, doing the same thing.

Another piece of trivia/advice- I prefer the 1950's (has the fold out length adjustments) style hook buckle on a pistol belt, but I rig my belt so that the hook points in toward me. I find it catches on much less crap if I'm prone, and it works just as well. I also like the side release buckles, but I HATE the USMC style buckle.

I'm also becoming a big fan of the Tactical Tuesday threads- keep 'em coming!

[EricinVirginia]

Use zip ties instead of belt keepers. I've done several hikes with a 2" duty belt and my BOB. Once I got comfortable with gear placement, I used zip ties (as suggested earlier in this thread) to secure the following:
- Right and left drop legs, holster and mag holder on one and gas mask pouch on other.
- Right and left side dump pouches.

My BOB has a waist belt that I keep a small pouch on. I noticed a tendency to put tons of stuff on my belt... and that if you're layering multiple belts you need to a be a bit more picky and choosy.

[Tommy Tran]

I concur on the zipties I am a 33in waist and ALL my 3gun belt area is consumed with holster, shell caddies, and mag holders so I use zipties and it works amazing!

[Chef]

I suppose you have to cut the zipties off to take your pistol belt?

[Murph]

I suppose you have to cut the zipties off to take your pistol belt?

There are reusable ones, that you don't have to cut. Home Depot has them, as do other places I'm sure.

[Tommy Tran]

I suppose you have to cut the zipties off to take your pistol belt?

yeah but I do a ton of electrical work so I buy them by the 1000's... plus it gives your knife(you have one on your person right!?) something to do when you are done...
I had played with the idea of the removeable ones but typically they are more expensive and just something else to go wrong, I'll stick with the solid ones!

[KnightoftheRoc]

Removable ties aren't a bad idea, but I'm not sure what you mean by "take your pistol belt". I prefer the permanent ties, but I also wouldn't be using them on anything I would possibly be removing from my belt. To me, the idea of a prepared pistol belt, like one dedicated to bugging out, for instance, is that everything on it is going to STAY on it, and removing the items means dropping the entire belt. This way, it's all right there again as soon as I put the belt back on. I can easily see instances where wearing one into a store, just for an example, might gain you more attention that it's worth, so dropping the belt and going grey man for a little while is a nice option. And, if I were carrying a pistol on it, I'd either have a second rig for CC, or a BUG already CC'ed, that I could depend on.

One advantage I've found in becoming a fat old man, is that increase in belt line real estate that comes with it....

[Murph]

We weren't talking about ziptieing pouches on (which is a good idea, I do that.) but about using zipties as alternates to belt keepers.

If you're not familiar with belt keepers, they are little peices of webbing that loop around both your pants belt and your pistol belt and snap. They keep the pistol belt right on top of your pants belt.

[KnightoftheRoc]

We weren't talking about ziptieing pouches on (which is a good idea, I do that.) but about using zipties as alternates to belt keepers.

If you're not familiar with belt keepers, they are little peices of webbing that loop around both your pants belt and your pistol belt and snap. They keep the pistol belt right on top of your pants belt.

My bad- sorry.
I am familiar with the keepers, I just don't use them- my pants belt typically rides higher than my preferred pistol belt "ride-height", so using them, for me, isn't an option. Even if they did ride at the same height, I'm not sure I'd like the idea of having to undo anything extra in order to drop my pistol belt. It's not something I'd think of as a first reaction to anything, but I could see the need arising if caught up on something with the pistol belt. In a case like that, I'd want it to be as quick release as possible, and adding attachment points with separate connectors to undo, would just add to my aggravation factor. But, that's just me, YMMV.

[KBoosh]

Sorry if it's been said before, but how much should I expect to pay for a decent web belt of the load-bearing type? I see them ranging from $5 to $20 and I'm not sure what to really look for.

[Murph]

Sorry if it's been said before, but how much should I expect to pay for a decent web belt of the load-bearing type? I see them ranging from $5 to $20 and I'm not sure what to really look for.

These are my favorite for USGI Surplus:
LC3 Pistol Belt (Note the quick release buckle)

Here's one for $6:
http://www.workinggear.com/gc/catalog/R ... rakid=8616

[KBoosh]

Sorry if it's been said before, but how much should I expect to pay for a decent web belt of the load-bearing type? I see them ranging from $5 to $20 and I'm not sure what to really look for.

These are my favorite for USGI Surplus:
LC3 Pistol Belt (Note the quick release buckle)

Here's one for $6:
http://www.workinggear.com/gc/catalog/R ... rakid=8616

Awesome, thanks. My pant waist size is around 34-36, should I get a medium belt (says up to 40")? Or are those measurements different?

[Murph]

I'll check what size I have when I get home. I'm about a 34-36 waist too.

[KnightoftheRoc]

This is the style I prefer, myself. While I usually prefer metal construction over plastic for things I expect to take a beating, plastics have come a loooooong way since I was a kid (and we were debating the new technology- "Fire, good, or fire, bad?") These side release buckles hold up pretty darned well, at least the genuine military gear ones do. I've seen replacement ones in stores that are absolute CRAP- you just have to be careful what you buy.
The USMC buckle, I don't know the proper name for it, has a quick release function, but IMHO, it's harder to use, and can be difficult to get lined up properly when connecting.
If you can get genuine milsurp, the one pictured above will work for you, and work a long time- you may give out before it does.

[Chef]

I prefer what's generally called a "duty belt," the one I have now is from SOE. Eagle makes a comparably good product also. Double layer of heavy scuba webbing, velcro lined so pouches don't slip all around. No useless grommets to add weight. The drawback (if you choose to view it that way) is that duty belts require dedicated duty belt pouches. The upside is, once you get it set up right, you won't be tempted to raid your belt to put the pouches elsewhere. Your local cop shop will have a wide selection of duty belt holsters and pouches in black, more tacticool colors can be found from vendors like Eagle and SpecterGear. BLACKHAWWWWWK!!!!!1! used to make decent duty belt pouches also, and they shouldn't be too hard to find.

I have a couple of GI pistol belts, but they go with suspenders and pouches for rifle mags and canteens and impedimenta of that ilk. My basic "pistol belt" has just a holster, a double mag pouch, a flashlight pouch, and a dumper on it, along with four belt keepers. No rifle mag pouches, no canteen pouch, no big fuckin' knife (although I do have all of those, I don't have them attached; I want to keep the pistol belt basic and simple).

[Jeriah]

Question: how would all this change if one were running a load-supporting waistbelt on one's ruck? Like, say, a Kifaru EMR, or a Zulu with the Omni Belt? Or any commercial backpacking pack?

I'm assuming you'd run a slimmer belt, like a rigger's belt or a stiff pants belt, in that context. A drop leg holster would let the holster clear the waistbelt, no problem. But where would your mag pouches go?

One thing I think not enough people do is deal with integrating their gear. If you've got your CCW rig, a chest rig or armor for tactical training, and a BOB...how do you use them all together?