5.45x39

[Dumptruck]

Many people bag on this round because of the research that Fackler did (found that the yawing exhibited by the round does not act nearly as well as the fragmentation seen in 5.56x45). With that being said, if the research says otherwise, why do the Russians continue to use the round? Armies are unable to use SP/HP ammunition so Russia could not use this to create a more lethal round.

Why then do they continue on with producing a round that research has shown to do a poor job? This isn't a 5.45x39 fanboy/hater by the way.

[SMoAF]

I dunno why, but it's all good for me. I have guns in that caliber because it's cheap so I've stacked it long, tall, and deep, and it goes bang. I ain't hunting with it.

I'm at the point in my life that if something bad happens, I'll deal with it using a verbal command, a written order, or only in absolutely most dire life and death circumstances, a handgun. The days when I had to worry about what rifle caliber I carried are long, long gone.


Oh, and BTW: I'm pretty sure the Soviets managed to kill an assload of people using that caliber. It doesn't have to be perfect, if it kills, it's done it's jorb.

[wilmo]

I dunno why, but it's all good for me. I have guns in that caliber because it's cheap so I've stacked it long, tall, and deep, and it goes bang. I ain't hunting with it.

I'm at the point in my life that if something bad happens, I'll deal with it using a verbal command, a written order, or only in absolutely most dire life and death circumstances, a handgun. The days when I had to worry about what rifle caliber I carried are long, long gone.


Oh, and BTW: I'm pretty sure the Soviets managed to kill an assload of people using that caliber. It doesn't have to be perfect, if it kills, it's done it's jorb.

Well put!

[Bearcat]

Oh, and BTW: I'm pretty sure the Soviets managed to kill an assload of people using that caliber. It doesn't have to be perfect, if it kills, it's done it's jorb.

Yeah, there's a reason the mujahideen(predecessor to the taliban) called it the "poison bullet" back in the afghan war.

[gordon_freeman]

It might not have the best terminal ballistics, but terminal ballistics is definitely a young study. Really, Dr. Fackler and Dr. Roberts are the only two who have really done any hard, scientific work in this field.

Anyway, 5.45 is ok for a military round. Get a CNS hit, or shoot a person enough times and he'll go down. Of course, there is room for improvement, and Hornady is making a 5.45 TAP round, soon to be released...

[rube79]

We do not have current Russian military issued 5.45x39, nor do we have data for it. The surplus we have now does a damn good job for my personal needs. I have killed deer w/ this round and i know of many other deer killed w/ it. Instead of yawing, the bullet tumbles wildly in flesh.
I have done my own field tests and am very happy w/ the results. There is better ammunition out there, but damn i love this stuff.

+1 to SMoAF

[Dumptruck]

Oh, and BTW: I'm pretty sure the Soviets managed to kill an assload of people using that caliber. It doesn't have to be perfect, if it kills, it's done it's jorb.

Yeah, there's a reason the mujahideen(predecessor to the taliban) called it the "poison bullet" back in the afghan war.

Any bullet is going to seem like the hammer of Thor to people who don't have access to proper medical care. I bet I would be calling .22lr 'the Devastator' in a PAW scenario haha. A rusty nail can be deadly without proper treatment.

I would like to see research done on newer Russian military grade 5.45x39 ammo.

[Dumptruck]

We do not have current Russian military issued 5.45x39, nor do we have data for it. The surplus we have now does a damn good job for my personal needs. I have killed deer w/ this round and i know of many other deer killed w/ it. Instead of yawing, the bullet tumbles wildly in flesh.
I have done my own field tests and am very happy w/ the results. There is better ammunition out there, but damn i love this stuff.

+1 to SMoAF

Rube, do you have any pictures of the deer? Using just FMJ? Not trying to be a doubter. I just am very interested in this.

I am considering buying one of the Saiga 5.45x39 and converting it. Just wanted to get a feel for how the round actually performs in a self defense/SHTF role. Others here have many more miles than I do using the chambering.

[gelgoog]

Oh, and BTW: I'm pretty sure the Soviets managed to kill an assload of people using that caliber. It doesn't have to be perfect, if it kills, it's done it's jorb.

Yeah, there's a reason the mujahideen(predecessor to the taliban) called it the "poison bullet" back in the afghan war.

A rusty nail can be deadly without proper treatment.

ZS knows this all too well

[Dumptruck]

Oh, and BTW: I'm pretty sure the Soviets managed to kill an assload of people using that caliber. It doesn't have to be perfect, if it kills, it's done it's jorb.

Yeah, there's a reason the mujahideen(predecessor to the taliban) called it the "poison bullet" back in the afghan war.

A rusty nail can be deadly without proper treatment.

ZS knows this all too well

Fuck my life. I am sorry, fellas. Definitely didn't mean to bring that up.

[Bearcat]

Fuck my life. I am sorry, fellas. Definitely didn't mean to bring that up.

Sorry to dig at a sore spot, but i'm a noob, could someone PM what happened?

[rube79]

If you have a membership at theakforum.net these will fill your interest, all are from a member named -x-.

This guy has it going on!!!!!

He has multiple kills w/ various ammo!!!!

7N6 ammo. No Autopsy. Big buck and a doe.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11092

7N6 ammo. Autopsy. Small button buck.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16176

7N6 ammo. Autopsy. Doe.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38356

7N6 ammo. Autopsy. Doe.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=39540

7N6. Autopsy. Buck.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=114985

Wolf 60gr HP. Autopsy. Buck & Doe.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112495

Barnual 55gr SP. Autopsy. Doe.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=114017

Wolf 70gr & Wolf 154gr SP. No Autopsy. Buck.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13412

Wolf 154gr SP. No Autopsy. Small button buck.
http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=74365


Some of his pix


Another buck killed w/ Surplus here
Rifle: AK-105
Ammo: Russian 7N6 53gr 5.45x39
Distance to target: ~70yards
Distance Deer ran: 0 yards



Spine shot

Lung damage too

[gelgoog]

why am I hungry for ribs all of a sudden

::waits with his AK in the bushes for the deer that come into his yard every night::

[Dumptruck]

Rube, the few I could see looked great. I use a non-ISP provided email so I can't register over there.

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

good to see some pictures from there, this poor guy would have died waiting to be approved over at the ak files/forum.

[URBAN ASSAULT]

Oh, and BTW: I'm pretty sure the Soviets managed to kill an assload of people using that caliber. It doesn't have to be perfect, if it kills, it's done it's jorb.

Yeah, there's a reason the mujahideen(predecessor to the taliban) called it the "poison bullet" back in the afghan war.

A rusty nail can be deadly without proper treatment.

ZS knows this all too well

Jeesh, I fuckin' LITERALLY teared up for a few seconds when I made the thought-connection about rusty nails!

I miss the Lord of All Guns too.



-urban

[Dumptruck]

I used a terrible example.

[URBAN ASSAULT]

I used a terrible example.

My friend, do not give it another thought. You didn't do anything wrong at all.

That's just my take on it from being a guy who barely knew the man, but I always admired the way he carried himself, how friendly he was, and my god... those lovely toys he had accrued!

So hoist a glass in hk33k's honor, and burn off a mag of ammo in his memory.

Don't forget to hug and kiss the people in your life that you love.

-urban

[Lodewijk]

Thanks for crossposting those, Rube.

I'd always been in the bigger-is-better school of hunting thought but result images like those keep changing my mind a little at a time.

[OpelBlitz]

Thanks for crossposting those, Rube.

I'd always been in the bigger-is-better school of hunting thought but result images like those keep changing my mind a little at a time.

Would still prefer a .30-06 or .270 though.

[rube79]

Thanks for crossposting those, Rube.

I'd always been in the bigger-is-better school of hunting thought but result images like those keep changing my mind a little at a time.

ya'll are very Welcome -x- has been doing this for years and he is one of the reasons i wanted a krink. My personal reason for killing deer w/ the 5.45 was for examples of its terminal ballistics; and knowing that i can kill deer in a SHTF situation. I have hunting rifles, but i honestly enjoy hunting w/ a 5.45 Wish i would have took pix of my kills but o well.

More of -x-

25 yards w/ surplus

[gelgoog]

that dog is awesome

[Browning 35]

Thank you for posting those pics of the effects of the 5.45X39 cartridge on deer, it's very interesting to see what it'll actually do in terms of terminal ballistics on living tissue. Looks like it did just fine to me. If it'll drop a deer it'll drop an attacker.

It seems like there's a trend in the US towards bagging on any rifle that isn't at least in .30 cal and then these trend setters will try and say that it probably has a poor chance of dropping an attacker or opponent. To me that's why all these magnum rifle cartridges do so well when hunters go to buy a new rifle, there's a trend towards more and more velocity even though it really isn't needed.

It's shot placement that matters the most.

BTW - I hope no game wardens see those pics of that 30 rd mag sticking out of the rifle. In most States they legally limit you to a 5 rd mag for game animals (varmints and pest animals are a nice exception, doesn't matter what capacity mag you use on those). Or maybe he just put the 30 rd mag in for the pictures (possible defense strategy that he might be able to use).

'Yeah, yeah....that's it. He put the mag in JUST for the pictures'.

In all seriousness though for all I know he stuck a block in the mag to make it legal. I haven't ever seen a 5 rd 5.45X39 AK mag.

[CwlCymru]

only thing I will say is that the range of those kills was pretty short.

how effective is the 5.45 at ranges upto 400 yards?