Urban Bug Out Ideas

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Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by nomad211 » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:30 pm

Some really interesting things mentioned on the mock urban bugout thread, but some cautions needed.
Yes, bugging out on foot by following rail tracks will work, just as sleeping under bridges will. That's the problem . . . because it does work, those areas already have homeless people around. Blending in with them requires much more than not bathing/shaving for a few days.
Unless you're prepared to ditch your high tech ( AKA high cost) equipment & schleap around in several layers of used Salvation Army clothes & ratty shoes, carrying your preps in a shopping bag or cheap daypack, sleeping on cardboard, you're gonna stand out like a sore thumb. Just like you are the first time you pull out an expensive flashlight, multi-tool, etc. Any display of value sets you up as a target for robbery & remember, they're more of them than there of you & you have to sleep sometime.
A gun for self defense? Yep, it works, but there goes your covert status & you've just announced yourself to everyone within hearing distance, including the "authorities" who you may or may not want to encounter. Time to beat feet & if it comes to that, you may as well have picked a more comfortable plan. Even a nice watch would be enough to blow your cover.
I encountered lots of homeless while working as a security guard & I'll never forget two things. One, almost everyone of them had a knife of some sort (which is why I'm not comfortable with pepper spray) & two, the ones I found dead in the winter from exposure ALWAYS had their pockets turned inside out. Seems their buddies stripped them after they died. Nice lot, that.

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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Geppato » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:32 pm

nomad211 wrote:Some really interesting things mentioned on the mock urban bugout thread, but some cautions needed.
Yes, bugging out on foot by following rail tracks will work, just as sleeping under bridges will. That's the problem . . . because it does work, those areas already have homeless people around. Blending in with them requires much more than not bathing/shaving for a few days.
Unless you're prepared to ditch your high tech ( AKA high cost) equipment & schleap around in several layers of used Salvation Army clothes & ratty shoes, carrying your preps in a shopping bag or cheap daypack, sleeping on cardboard, you're gonna stand out like a sore thumb. Just like you are the first time you pull out an expensive flashlight, multi-tool, etc. Any display of value sets you up as a target for robbery & remember, they're more of them than there of you & you have to sleep sometime.
A gun for self defense? Yep, it works, but there goes your covert status & you've just announced yourself to everyone within hearing distance, including the "authorities" who you may or may not want to encounter. Time to beat feet & if it comes to that, you may as well have picked a more comfortable plan. Even a nice watch would be enough to blow your cover.
I encountered lots of homeless while working as a security guard & I'll never forget two things. One, almost everyone of them had a knife of some sort (which is why I'm not comfortable with pepper spray) & two, the ones I found dead in the winter from exposure ALWAYS had their pockets turned inside out. Seems their buddies stripped them after they died. Nice lot, that.

Instead of a gun... one could use a big F off knife, a proper knife, visible upon encountering just to establish the barriers. And buddy systems, one sleeps while another stands watch... If you have high tech gear why would you sleep with bums under a bridge? I wouldn't... worst comes to worst then you gotta do what you gotta do. Playing by there rules will probably deter a half witted attempt of robbery, the don't screw with me or I'll bury you attitude maybe?
Just an insight though, nobody trusts bums much anyway...
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Murph » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:30 pm

WOW?! Did you look at ANY threads before you posted?

Seriously, the one right at the top, go:
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 93&t=58792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Geppato » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:01 pm

Murph wrote:WOW?! Did you look at ANY threads before you posted?

Seriously, the one right at the top, go:
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 93&t=58792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay... I was just commenting sir, I apologize.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Murph » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:19 am

Geppato wrote:
Murph wrote:WOW?! Did you look at ANY threads before you posted?

Seriously, the one right at the top, go:
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 93&t=58792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay... I was just commenting sir, I apologize.
I was talking to the other guy actually. :wink:
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
"When planning, prepare for the most likely, and then the most catastrophic."
raptor wrote: Being a gun collector does not make you a prepper.
the_alias wrote: Murph has all the diplomacy of a North Korean warhead, but -he has- a valid point

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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by offcamber » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:46 am

My bugout plan does not involve blending in or even hanging out with homeless people... that seems like a really stupid idea, no offense.

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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Geppato » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:28 pm

Murph wrote:
Geppato wrote:
Murph wrote:WOW?! Did you look at ANY threads before you posted?

Seriously, the one right at the top, go:
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 93&t=58792" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay... I was just commenting sir, I apologize.
I was talking to the other guy actually. :wink:
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Glennbo » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:42 am

offcamber wrote:My bugout plan does not involve blending in or even hanging out with homeless people... that seems like a really stupid idea, no offense.
The idea of the wise homeless person who possesses superior survival skills than the rest of us is a myth. These people can teach you nothing. The only reason they get along at all is because they rely on a civilized, functioning society to scrouge off of. And they can barely cope in that near perfect enviroment. In a PAW situation they would be totally useless if not harmful.

Many of them have severe mental health problems. They cannot avoid or discontinue self-destructive behaviors. These qualities do not become magically beneficial in the absence of a structured society.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by nomad211 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:16 am

Well, I'm the other guy & I was just commenting too. Yes Sir, I did read & even posted on the thread. Sorry, didn't mean to upset anyone.

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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by DBR » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:29 pm

Glennbo wrote:
offcamber wrote:My bugout plan does not involve blending in or even hanging out with homeless people... that seems like a really stupid idea, no offense.
The idea of the wise homeless person who possesses superior survival skills than the rest of us is a myth. These people can teach you nothing. The only reason they get along at all is because they rely on a civilized, functioning society to scrouge off of. And they can barely cope in that near perfect enviroment. In a PAW situation they would be totally useless if not harmful.

Many of them have severe mental health problems. They cannot avoid or discontinue self-destructive behaviors. These qualities do not become magically beneficial in the absence of a structured society.
You are absolutely correct about the vast majority of them. Most of them have addiction problems or long criminal histories or mental health issues or any combination of the three. All of this is true.

I think where your thoughts go a bit astray is in their possession of survival skills, superior or otherwise. When we see something we don't like, it's easy to fall into the all-too-human trap of simply demonizing whatever that "something" is. A lot of them, especially when it comes to surviving cold and other, inclement weather, really know what they are doing. The nutters are nutters but a lot of the other types will surprise you at times with what they know and what they can pull off. That doesn't make them "noble" or anything else...just survivors.

Some of them, as you point out, only continue to survive because they know how to game the system they are in and the artificial environment and safety nets society has created for them helps them continue to survive.

Now, as society continues to tighten the vise on people, employment and other financial issues are really increasing the numbers of homeless and the model that both of us have been speaking about is changing rapidly and dramatically. So, it would be a good idea to be a bit more open-minded about what's going on in society.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by A.C.E. » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:12 pm

I work in Stockholm (the largest city and capital of Sweden) and commute there weekly. I have done so for the past three years and have had plenty of time to plan for a bug out.

My main plan is to bug out by bicycle. Avoiding traffic jams and vehicle related problems. Stockholm is built on islands so there're a lot of bridges that all get horribly clogged even on an average day. Mass evacuation would be horrible. THERE ARE ONLY 3 WAYS OUT OF STOCKHOLM!!

My gear includes stuff like:
Tools for bike maintenance.
Entry tools, small prybar and mini bolt cutters.
Dust mask and goggles.


My personal reason for bringing cutters and a prybar are related to one of my back-up plans. A lot of train and subway tracks run on the surface, behind barbwired fences. I might have to cross one or more of these to get out. Also if travelling by bike is impossible I have the option to enter the subway system and follow it out of town. Once I get out of town I still have about 200km. to get home so having the bike still working is high priority.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by TEC9man » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:52 pm

Why not just take over a walmart? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by A.C.E. » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:12 pm

TEC9man wrote:Why not just take over a walmart? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sadly, we don't have walmart in Sweden. So no can do. :wink:

On a more serious note. Bicycle is actually the only way to get around in this city unless you find sitting in traffic fun. I have 10km. or so to work and it's usually faster by bike than by car. I usually take the car if I have to go somewhere else than the office but for shorter trips it can't be beat.

From where I live to the outskirts of town is roughly 35km. By car this can take anything from 20min. to 2h. and that's a normal day without any major stops or accidents. By bike it takes maybe three hours, by foot it'd be a full day hike. After that, getting "home" is another problem. With any luck I'll be picked up by a nice comfy car and get to rest for the two hours it takes to get there.

If I have to go all the way by bike it'll take 4-5 days if I can use the big roads. I have food for a few days in my GHB and a fairly well thought-through plan on how to restock along the way. And NO, it doesn't involve breaking in, stealing or killing anything or anywhere.

The last fallback is of course to hump it out of town. It's far, there are almost no suitable roads to follow out of town and it would generally suck. I know that I can walk that far in a single night or day but it's the last option. Going by boat would probably work, but I don't own a boat and have no intention of stealing one.


About the breaking into subways thing. Outside of the central parts of town, the subways run above ground. Without the ability to get past the fences they are a major obstacle and require me to take several detours to get around. If I can easily get through they are instead an asset, they are mostly away from roads and lead almost the shortest way to where I want to get. I consider them something to take into account. If they are free and clear I will use them. If there's any issue with them I'll avoid them and go by another route.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:10 am

Glennbo wrote:
offcamber wrote:My bugout plan does not involve blending in or even hanging out with homeless people... that seems like a really stupid idea, no offense.
The idea of the wise homeless person who possesses superior survival skills than the rest of us is a myth. These people can teach you nothing. The only reason they get along at all is because they rely on a civilized, functioning society to scrouge off of. And they can barely cope in that near perfect enviroment. In a PAW situation they would be totally useless if not harmful.

Many of them have severe mental health problems. They cannot avoid or discontinue self-destructive behaviors. These qualities do not become magically beneficial in the absence of a structured society.
I would suggest that, before writing off the abilities of an entire community of people, you try living as they do for a while. Next vacation you time you have, spend two weeks with a homeless guy- I'd make friend with one first, it'll be easier that way. It will also give you a chance to find one who isn't tinfoil hat crazy. Then sleep out in the bitter cold of a January night and see how these guys, and women, manage to get up the next day.

Most of us make plans, then make contingency plans, buy gear to back those plans up, and we generally spend some serious loot to get that gear. Go try doing it without all that space age stuff, or the cash to buy it with. You'll find it a serious wake-up call, and very educational. I did it- lasted two days before I gave up and went home, extremely cold, hungry, and humbled.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by wastan » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:32 pm

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
Glennbo wrote:
offcamber wrote:My bugout plan does not involve blending in or even hanging out with homeless people... that seems like a really stupid idea, no offense.
The idea of the wise homeless person who possesses superior survival skills than the rest of us is a myth. These people can teach you nothing. The only reason they get along at all is because they rely on a civilized, functioning society to scrouge off of. And they can barely cope in that near perfect enviroment. In a PAW situation they would be totally useless if not harmful.

Many of them have severe mental health problems. They cannot avoid or discontinue self-destructive behaviors. These qualities do not become magically beneficial in the absence of a structured society.
I would suggest that, before writing off the abilities of an entire community of people, you try living as they do for a while. Next vacation you time you have, spend two weeks with a homeless guy- I'd make friend with one first, it'll be easier that way. It will also give you a chance to find one who isn't tinfoil hat crazy. Then sleep out in the bitter cold of a January night and see how these guys, and women, manage to get up the next day.

Most of us make plans, then make contingency plans, buy gear to back those plans up, and we generally spend some serious loot to get that gear. Go try doing it without all that space age stuff, or the cash to buy it with. You'll find it a serious wake-up call, and very educational. I did it- lasted two days before I gave up and went home, extremely cold, hungry, and humbled.
Wow. How utterly condescending to go "play" homeless for a few days. I feel sorry for the individual you "befriended" and the dignity he sacrificed for whatever you gave him for the experience (if you gave him nothing, then I'm doubly sorry for him and doubly irritated that someone in that sorry a condition was used for a recreational experiment). Glad you made it out alive though.

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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Geppato » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:45 pm

This will blow your mind if you are unaware... it is unclass now and superseded so you can read it.


Operation Garden Plot
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... n_plot.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Glennbo » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:06 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:I would suggest that, before writing off the abilities of an entire community of people, you try living as they do for a while.

Then sleep out in the bitter cold of a January night and see how these guys, and women, manage to get up the next day.
There is no homeless "community". They hate each other even more than we do. They don't voluntarily stay in groups. They don't cooperate with each other, they compete against each other. The vast majority of the chronically homeless are loners who want nothing to do with each other. If one finds a comfortable spot they get territorial and chase other homeless people away from it. I've seen this many times. The only homeless "communities" I've ever seen have either been atrificially created by an organization or outside force, not self supporting or self administered...or else total fiction as seen in movies or on T.V.

Chronically (not temporary) homeless people CAN teach you how to scrounge off a fully functioning civilized society.

They cannot teach you how to filter and purify water because they get clean tap water from various piblic and/or private sources.

They cannot teach you how to hunt/trap/forage because they get their food as handouts or leftovers from others.

They cannot teach you how to shelter because they rely on residual heat/electric and structures that are maintained by the constant power supply of a functioning municipal system.

If society shuts down they will be the first to fail because they are beyond unprepared, they are starting off with a nutritional, monetary, and mental deficit.

There is a delusional, "nobel savage" sociological glorification of the chronically homeless by folks who are unfamiliar with them, and don't understand them. "Befriending" one for a few days (assuming he would even tolerate your presence and competition for his limited resources) will only teach you how to be a bum within the framework of a fully functioning civilized society.

If you really want to train for surviving in a PAW, whether it be in an urban or rural enviroment, then take a good wilderness survival course...many of the required skills are identical.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Glennbo » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:14 pm

At the risk of slightly derailing the thread for a moment, there is no honor in bashing the homeless. These people need help. They need to be institutionalized and taught the life skills that enable them to live a decent, normal life in society. Some of them are beyond help and must simply be permanently committed.

It has always seemed astonishing to me that we rightly consider casting off pets into the streets as animal cruelty, yet we toss people who can't cope into those very same streets to suffer and even die under the guise of allowing them their freedom. I realize that warehousing hundreds of thousands of disturbed people is expensive, and that there is no political will to help these unfortunates to the extent they require. Perhaps there is no definitive answer to the problem. But we should at least consider alternatives to the status quo in a serious manner.



As to the OP, teaming up with other people will also enhance survivability in an urban bug out.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by Istvan56 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:26 pm

As this topic is better covered in other threads, such as the "Stealth" thread here: http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 86&start=0 I recommend this get locked and buried. The entire discussion regarding the homeless degenerated into some bashing by both sides which is not productive.

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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by eugene » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:07 pm

getting back on topic a little. If a situation happens in an urban environment I do want to try to blend in some. People who are unprepared are going to look like it, they are not going to be clean and nice looking. I keep old clothes around as part of my preps, sounds funny but I'm rough on clothes so I get a lot of clothes with holes in the knees, torn or stained shirts, etc. I put those in my bob and keep others in my closet. If were bugged in for a few days or bugging out I'd want to switch to those old clothes so I look like I'm like the rest of the unprepared, lost, out of luck, etc rather than looking like someone who has expensive stuff.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by JonClark » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:25 pm

Dont forget the combat beard.....Seriously....Clean shaven and hair trimmed are gonna look way out of place....People focus on clothes, etc but dont give much thought to the 12 pounds of gel in their guido.....

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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by eugene » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:13 pm

My facial hair grows fast, I have to shave every morning so in just a couple days I'll have that look.
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Re: Urban Bug Out Ideas

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sun May 16, 2010 5:19 am

wastan wrote:
KnightoftheRoc wrote:
Glennbo wrote:
offcamber wrote:My bugout plan does not involve blending in or even hanging out with homeless people... that seems like a really stupid idea, no offense.
The idea of the wise homeless person who possesses superior survival skills than the rest of us is a myth. These people can teach you nothing. The only reason they get along at all is because they rely on a civilized, functioning society to scrouge off of. And they can barely cope in that near perfect enviroment. In a PAW situation they would be totally useless if not harmful.

Many of them have severe mental health problems. They cannot avoid or discontinue self-destructive behaviors. These qualities do not become magically beneficial in the absence of a structured society.
I would suggest that, before writing off the abilities of an entire community of people, you try living as they do for a while. Next vacation you time you have, spend two weeks with a homeless guy- I'd make friend with one first, it'll be easier that way. It will also give you a chance to find one who isn't tinfoil hat crazy. Then sleep out in the bitter cold of a January night and see how these guys, and women, manage to get up the next day.

Most of us make plans, then make contingency plans, buy gear to back those plans up, and we generally spend some serious loot to get that gear. Go try doing it without all that space age stuff, or the cash to buy it with. You'll find it a serious wake-up call, and very educational. I did it- lasted two days before I gave up and went home, extremely cold, hungry, and humbled.
Wow. How utterly condescending to go "play" homeless for a few days. I feel sorry for the individual you "befriended" and the dignity he sacrificed for whatever you gave him for the experience (if you gave him nothing, then I'm doubly sorry for him and doubly irritated that someone in that sorry a condition was used for a recreational experiment). Glad you made it out alive though.
I never said I befriended a homeless person, so I don't know where you figured to take that- I suggested it as one method someone could try, that was it. The only dignity bruised was my own, when I realized just how arrogant I'd been thinking I could just walk out and do it with nothing- I soon realized my skills were not nearly as good as I'd thought they were.

Most of the survival skills homeless people use ARE ones that could be considered parasitic, and there will likely be a lot of them on the losing end when the SHTF. The skills I'm talking about being good things to learn, are things like how to insulate the clothing you have, finding sources of fresh water the city isn't guarding from unauthorized use- things like that.
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