Seeing around corners and through doors

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Neptune Glory
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Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Neptune Glory » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:00 pm

Hiyas,

So I have an idea. In the event of an urban unrest / active shooter situation, it would be an advantage to be able to see and hear things coming towards you... if you have found concealment or cover from it.

One of the less expensive tools parents use to see into rooms are baby monitors... which have come a long way. These days, they come able to see in day or night, and have infrared LED lights, in addition to being very sensitive to sound.

The camera / microphone is typically plug in, and the monitor that the parent carries is battery / rechargable, like a cell phone.

So I'm wondering... would this be a good thing to have in the event of civil unrest... or at an extreme example, to EDC in a backpack in case of an active shooter?

Also... is there a way to power the camera / microphone in the absence of a working outlet? Some kind of battery that could power it for an hour or two, no matter where one happened to be?

Just food for thought,
-Neptune
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by ODA 226 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:26 am

Neptune Glory wrote: So I'm wondering... would this be a good thing to have in the event of civil unrest... or at an extreme example, to EDC in a backpack in case of an active shooter?
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:56 am

ODA 226 wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote: So I'm wondering... would this be a good thing to have in the event of civil unrest... or at an extreme example, to EDC in a backpack in case of an active shooter?
NO

I agree. I don't mean to be a dick, but do you carry a backpack full of gear around with you in case an active shooting/civil unrest situation breaks out while you're driving to Starbucks? Unless of course you live in Dodge City circa 1880. I think it might be cool to have one in your house as an "el cheapo" security system if you really want to. But for everyday carry, I like to pack my brain. It is my most useful tool, so I use that before a backpack full of gizmos and tacticool gear. But of course, I am not into gadgets and gizmos :clap: . But if something did break out, you're best bet is to evade and escape and "get outta Dodge" (see what I did there :lol: ), not sit around looking at your baby monitor. And if you did have to fight for your life, a baby monitor is not a very effective stabbing defensive tool.

But then again, Brother-man Neptune, I am just a guy on the internet
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Neptune Glory » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:25 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote: So I'm wondering... would this be a good thing to have in the event of civil unrest... or at an extreme example, to EDC in a backpack in case of an active shooter?
NO

I agree. I don't mean to be a dick, but do you carry a backpack full of gear around with you in case an active shooting/civil unrest situation breaks out while you're driving to Starbucks? Unless of course you live in Dodge City circa 1880. I think it might be cool to have one in your house as an "el cheapo" security system if you really want to. But for everyday carry, I like to pack my brain. It is my most useful tool, so I use that before a backpack full of gizmos and tacticool gear. But of course, I am not into gadgets and gizmos :clap: . But if something did break out, you're best bet is to evade and escape and "get outta Dodge" (see what I did there :lol: ), not sit around looking at your baby monitor. And if you did have to fight for your life, a baby monitor is not a very effective stabbing defensive tool.

But then again, Brother-man Neptune, I am just a guy on the internet
I don't carry a backpack yet, just things in my holster and pockets. The combined weight of those things, together, is less than a laptop.

But you're probably right. It was just an idea.
-Neptune

p.s. Starbucks coffee sucks. Except their House Blend.

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by JeeperCreeper » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:32 am

Neptune Glory wrote: I don't carry a backpack yet, just things in my holster and pockets. The combined weight of those things, together, is less than a laptop.

But you're probably right. It was just an idea.
-Neptune

p.s. Starbucks coffee sucks. Except their House Blend.
I agree, my lungs burn from all the smug in the air when I walk into a Starbucks. I'm a Dunkin' man myself :clap:

Also, what sorta suff do you normally carry?? If I carry anthing, normally its just a small folder Kershaw. If I can't fight my way where I need to with that, then I pobably shouldn't be fighting.
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Halfapint wrote:There are some exceptions like myself and jeepercreeper.... but we are the forum asshats. We protect our positions with gusto
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Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Neptune Glory » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:51 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote: I don't carry a backpack yet, just things in my holster and pockets. The combined weight of those things, together, is less than a laptop.

But you're probably right. It was just an idea.
-Neptune

p.s. Starbucks coffee sucks. Except their House Blend.
I agree, my lungs burn from all the smug in the air when I walk into a Starbucks. I'm a Dunkin' man myself :clap:

Also, what sorta suff do you normally carry?? If I carry anthing, normally its just a small folder Kershaw. If I can't fight my way where I need to with that, then I pobably shouldn't be fighting.
My EDC:

Wallet
Keys
Cell Phone
Metal Shafted Pen
Small Tactical Flashlight
Kimber Pepper Blaster 2
Glock 26 with 10 round magazine
spare 15 round magazine
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Sworbeyegib » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:20 pm

That is a very specialized piece of gear, for a very specific and rare circumstance.

Have you considered the old tried and true mirror on a stick? Might not be a fancy as a portable surveillance device, but sometimes low tech is good tech.

Still not something the average person would need to carry with them or use. This is one of those times where software > hardware.
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Neptune Glory » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:03 pm

It was just an idea. Many of my posts are of ideas that I have... with the intention of letting people poke holes in the logic and teach me the folly of the idea.

It's a much less expensive thing to do than good old fashioned trial-and-error.
-Neptune
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by moab » Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:53 pm

I agree. For EDC it's overkill. But this might not be a bad addition to your BOL. Or even on your way to your BOL. If you could find a cheap battery operated baby monitor it might be of use placing along a route or trail to wherever your camped. They are very sensitive to sound and movement. And the speaker side can be turned up to act as an alarm on your end. I use to place hand held ground sensors in the military on a squad to battalion level. Many years ago (talking early 80's). So I know the technology has probably jumped leaps and bounds to something probably not unlike a baby monitor today (although probably smaller and probably run on some classified super battery or something lol!).

These ground sensors could tell you a great deal about an approaching enemy. So this isn't that far fetched. Of course your talking about a complete meltdown here. Where bad guys are out looking for you. Probably not likely during your next localized natural disaster. But I could see someone replacing their trip wires and the like for a baby monitor. The ground sensors we deployed ran off of 2 D batteries IIRC. And were the size of a small can of beans. I don't recall off the top of my head how big the receiver was. But it was a lot bigger than a baby monitor.
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Neptune Glory » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:39 pm

Thanks, Moab!
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by ineffableone » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:15 pm

moab wrote:I agree. For EDC it's overkill. But this might not be a bad addition to your BOL. Or even on your way to your BOL. If you could find a cheap battery operated baby monitor it might be of use placing along a route or trail to wherever your camped. They are very sensitive to sound and movement. And the speaker side can be turned up to act as an alarm on your end. I use to place hand held ground sensors in the military on a squad to battalion level. Many years ago (talking early 80's). So I know the technology has probably jumped leaps and bounds to something probably not unlike a baby monitor today (although probably smaller and probably run on some classified super battery or something lol!).

These ground sensors could tell you a great deal about an approaching enemy. So this isn't that far fetched. Of course your talking about a complete meltdown here. Where bad guys are out looking for you. Probably not likely during your next localized natural disaster. But I could see someone replacing their trip wires and the like for a baby monitor. The ground sensors we deployed ran off of 2 D batteries IIRC. And were the size of a small can of beans. I don't recall off the top of my head how big the receiver was. But it was a lot bigger than a baby monitor.
Yep for in home or for a BOL, sure. Especially if you already have one and are repurposing. For EDC, not so much.

If you don't already have them some of the baby monitors can be found fairly cheap used, and could be used until you can afford something else like the MURS radio driveway sensors and infrared motion sensors or more costly video surveillance cameras. Just be sure to price used baby monitors against new better surveillance equipment to make sure you aren't just wasting money on an inferior piece of tech.

Basically my take is baby monitors could make a low cost entry into surveillance for a property if your on a tight budget. But they are only a temp measure that would need replacing when you can afford better.
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by moab » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:30 pm

ineffableone wrote:
moab wrote:I agree. For EDC it's overkill. But this might not be a bad addition to your BOL. Or even on your way to your BOL. If you could find a cheap battery operated baby monitor it might be of use placing along a route or trail to wherever your camped. They are very sensitive to sound and movement. And the speaker side can be turned up to act as an alarm on your end. I use to place hand held ground sensors in the military on a squad to battalion level. Many years ago (talking early 80's). So I know the technology has probably jumped leaps and bounds to something probably not unlike a baby monitor today (although probably smaller and probably run on some classified super battery or something lol!).

These ground sensors could tell you a great deal about an approaching enemy. So this isn't that far fetched. Of course your talking about a complete meltdown here. Where bad guys are out looking for you. Probably not likely during your next localized natural disaster. But I could see someone replacing their trip wires and the like for a baby monitor. The ground sensors we deployed ran off of 2 D batteries IIRC. And were the size of a small can of beans. I don't recall off the top of my head how big the receiver was. But it was a lot bigger than a baby monitor.
Yep for in home or for a BOL, sure. Especially if you already have one and are repurposing. For EDC, not so much.

If you don't already have them some of the baby monitors can be found fairly cheap used, and could be used until you can afford something else like the MURS radio driveway sensors and infrared motion sensors or more costly video surveillance cameras. Just be sure to price used baby monitors against new better surveillance equipment to make sure you aren't just wasting money on an inferior piece of tech.

Basically my take is baby monitors could make a low cost entry into surveillance for a property if your on a tight budget. But they are only a temp measure that would need replacing when you can afford better.
I agree. It could also be used at a harbor site. Or a campsite too. The ground sensors we deployed were unconventional. But really powerful if you knew how to read them. You could tell the difference between people on foot and vehicles. Size of force. Etc. Anyway, What I'm trying to say is that for perimeter security a small battery powered baby monitor could be effective. I personally have not researched them though. I would imagine you could find really small ones that could be easily camo'd like a trail cam. And an earbud with video on your end. For stealth reception of alarms.
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by PhunkyMunky » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:27 pm

Not bad to have in your home, but how do you plan to have such a thing for EDC? If there's rioting or other civil unrest around you.... Stay low, move fast but DELIBERATELY which means stop and decide where you are going to go. Then once the decision is made, move quickly. Be aware of your surroundings and the situation, as aware as you can be anyway, and take every opportunity to move AWAY from the incident. Don't draw attention to yourself. But... Do you know what the BEST way to survive such a thing is? Don't be in it in the first place. Listen to the radio more, watch the news, check online, there are always ways to see if there is potential for such a thing to happen. Is there a protest near where you are going? What's it about? Some protest subjects are more likely to draw trouble than some others.
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by PhunkyMunky » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:29 pm

"I use to place hand held ground sensors in the military on a squad to battalion level"

Romeo? As in 96R? 8-)
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by moab » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:33 pm

PhunkyMunky wrote:"I use to place hand held ground sensors in the military on a squad to battalion level"

Romeo? As in 96R? 8-)
No. I was a member of a STA platoon. Snipers/radar/ground sensor/NOD operators. Back in the 80's. I don't think they exist anymore.
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by RadFoxUK » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:39 pm

I bought a relatively cheap and medium quality RC helicopter a few years ago, if you were tous the metal fram and a small external bettery pack could you not create a remote control recon drone with one of the new baby monitors?
and if so would this not be extremely useful in a bug-out situation to check for certain blockages in the ahead roads or for any trouble or good loot which would be a huge benefit. Plus it allows you to find an enemy combatant even if they are not visable, using the 'drone'?

Please note this is only theory and I have not and will not be either creating or using such a device now or at a later date. I also would note that I am unaware of any and all laws covering the use of such a device either in the UK or around the world.

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by KGBrick » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:57 am

RadFoxUK wrote:I bought a relatively cheap and medium quality RC helicopter a few years ago, if you were tous the metal fram and a small external bettery pack could you not create a remote control recon drone with one of the new baby monitors?
and if so would this not be extremely useful in a bug-out situation to check for certain blockages in the ahead roads or for any trouble or good loot which would be a huge benefit. Plus it allows you to find an enemy combatant even if they are not visable, using the 'drone'?

Please note this is only theory and I have not and will not be either creating or using such a device now or at a later date. I also would note that I am unaware of any and all laws covering the use of such a device either in the UK or around the world.
Perhaps you don't literally mean "loot" but considering your post count I strongly suggest you read the main forum rules. Number one in particular. Many new visitors forget to do this and find themselves in trouble while strongly opining that they've done nothing wrong.

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by RadFoxUK » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:48 am

In reply to the above post:
RadFoxUK wrote:There are legal UAV and UGV's available on the commercial market, I put the disclaimer because I was unaware if what I described might have breached any laws.

May I also add that it is legal to plan a murder to extreme detail as long as you don't attempt it. Do the same rules not apply here? And if so, why.

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by KGBrick » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:30 am

Ah, sorry, I rarely notice when I get a PM due to rarely getting PMs to notice. :clownshoes:

Yes, there are plenty of legal uses of remotely operated aircraft. I don't think anyone would say that's against the rules to discuss.

Murder and looting, however, are illegal by definition. Discussion or meta-discussion (such as planning, or planning to plan, etc.) of them is against the rules. I don't think you're one of them, but there are people out there who "plan" for disasters by deciding how they will rob, loot, and otherwise usurp the property of others. There are a lot of them. Without rule 1 this would be a cesspit of that sort of thing.

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by RadFoxUK » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:06 am

Ah, by loot I meant items of use, an example of the context would be how the game series Borderlands has been/ called itself a "loot and shoot". I hope this clarifies my meaning.

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Wraith6761 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:41 pm

RadFoxUK wrote:Ah, by loot I meant items of use, an example of the context would be how the game series Borderlands has been/ called itself a "loot and shoot". I hope this clarifies my meaning.
If by spotting loot you mean "hey, there's a stream/creek 100 meters north of here that'd make a good water source" or "there's some wild blackberry/blueberry/whatever bushes up ahead", then yeah that's fine...if you mean "hey, there's a car up ahead with a bunch of supplies and nobody around" then no, unless that car/supplies belong to you it's considered illegal (theft/looting) and we don't talk about illegal things here, per Rule #1.Image
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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by majorhavoc » Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:27 pm

Before this topic gets any further derailed, perhaps it would best for us all to strongly urge RadFoxUK to acquaint himself with the forum rules before posting again. viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895 It's a common oversight; I too was ignorant of that particular forum rule when I first came to ZS.

The only thing I'd personally add is to echo KGBrick's point that ZS is all about preparation for disasters. As in: ahead of time. So one doesn't find themselves in the ethically compromised position of having to steal other people's property in order to make up for one's lack of planning.

In regards to RadFoxUK's idea of attaching such a camera to an R/C helicopter: To the extent it is legal in one's local jurisdiction, it's conceptually an interesting idea. Say for scouting ahead for ambushes, spotting approaching hordes of flesh-eating ghouls or conveniently delivering packages from online mega-vendors. There's an existing thread on this topic, here. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=113584

And FYI: planning an actual murder in extreme detail before attempting it is in fact illegal if more than one person is involved in the planning. I don't know what the crime is called in the UK, but here in the US it's referred to as conspiracy to commit murder.

Now let's get back to tactical EDC baby monitors, shall we? :crazy:

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Re: Seeing around corners and through doors

Post by Maeklos » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:14 am

Baby monitors got me thinking. I've gotten feedback from a couple brands while carrying a walkie-talkie. They were cheap, off-the-shelf baby monitors reacting to a cheap, off-the-shelf walkie-talkie. Maybe someone with advanced technical know-how might be able to figure out if that can be used to advantage, by taking the above ideas of seeing an area around a BOL with baby monitors and... I don't know... boosting the... quantum flux capacitor(?) in such a way that you could determine whether the folks sneaking up on you are dangerous enough to carry long-distance commo gear?
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