BLACKSMITHING

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the black smith
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BLACKSMITHING

Post by the black smith » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:30 pm

im taking classes right now and collecting all basic smithing tools and wares. as in if something does happen people keep thinking about the basic needs as in doctors, cooks, security, ect. but what happens when you and your group make it and you survive. you make your own little village or secure a culdesac or what have you. yes you have your elected leader\leaders. your emt\doctor. your suplies gathers/runners. your cooks/chefs. your experts in communications... but what happens when the duct tape runs out, and you need the door hinge fixed or a gate more secure or blade fixed. Blacksmithing is a anchient and quite useful survival skill. in my opion every group needs one in the long run. any ferther thoughts?

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aus.templar
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by aus.templar » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:42 pm

Should we plunge back into tribes rather than countries, then yes, every trade including blacksmiths will be vital to the functionality of their tribe.

I dabbled in knife making and wasn't very good haha, I've ordered an axe from a mates dad who is an excellent blacksmith. He started as a hobby and now is bloody good, so practice enough and you can turn it into Pre-paw business too
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by Nick Adams » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:30 pm

I was a professional blacksmith for about 15 years, made mostly 18th century knives and axes but did all types of other work also.
I used an old hand crank coal forge as well as one with a pump bellows. Learn how to forge weld and braze as well as to how to make charcoal for the forge. I would pick up as many hand powered tools as you can find , hand crank post drills and grinders are common and often can be bought for cheap. Pick up at least one good post vise
If you are at all serious about it get a good anvil at least 150 lbs again there are lots of good old anvils out there if you look, I think I probably have at least 40 now, don't buy one that is rough or that has problems unless very cheap figuring on you replacing it.
Cone mandrills and swage blocks are nice to have but hard to find and expect to pay.
Is nice to have lots of tongs and hammers but you can get by with just a few and pick up others over time

You can hob together a forge but you will be ahead to buy a real one, at least the firepot and blower. Same with things like railroad anvils

Besides a full blacksmith shop I also have most of the tools used in an old time Tinsmith / coppersmith shop, some of these like stakes can be used in blacksmith work as well

Lots of books out there on blacksmithing some good some less so. Main thing is to learn the basics and then practice, what many people don't realize is that blacksmith requires you to think things through before you start it. Every time you hit hot metal it should be to do something
I don't do much any more but have been thinking about getting back into it some, sort of miss it

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the black smith
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by the black smith » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:03 pm

thanks for the advice man. ive been trying to find anything that would help but i cant even find an anvil arround me at all.

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procyon
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by procyon » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:23 am

It is a good skill to have. There are others that will be far more useful on a day to day basis, but if you have the time it is worth learning.
In the last two weeks I have had to fire up the forge to fix a barn latch that got twisted by high winds (kids didn't get all three latches closed so one got torqued), a hinge on the front screen door (ok, that was my fault for trying to hang a new one by myself...), and a blade on the riding mower that got grounded and bent.

My only cost has been a couple matches and getting rid of part of the scrap bark pile from splitting wood.

It has saved me a fair amount of money over the years.
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by Nick Adams » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:41 am

the black smith wrote:thanks for the advice man. ive been trying to find anything that would help but i cant even find an anvil arround me at all.
Most times when a person say they can't find old tools or other stuff like that where they live it's not because there isn't any there but because they are not really looking or are not looking correctly. How have you been looking for blacksmith tools?

You need to go to flea markets, ones at steam shows as well as your weekly flea markets, have to get there early. Saunter in at 9:00 you will have missed all the good stuff. Ask people that set up if they have blacksmith tools, they might have an anvil but didn't bring it to put out.
Go to auctions, every week auctions as well as estate auctions. Check the adds for ones that might have anvils or blacksmith tools,
Go to blacksmith events and demostrations where they have tailgaiting, you will see every tool you will need but expect to pay retail.
Tell everyone that you know that you are looking for blacksmithing tools, the more that know the greater your chance of getting something. I have had nice anvils given to me from doing this.
Lots of stuff out there but you do have to hunt for it

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the black smith
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by the black smith » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:29 pm

i have tried everything. flee markets. asking the professers of metalergy at the community college here. i called my old high school metal class, luckly the same teacher was there. the only other thing i can think of is our local renfest.

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by Nick Adams » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:19 am

I bought my first anvil years ago from running an add in a Farm paper looking for blacksmith tools. I got lots of replies but most were to far away but I did get some other stuff too.
I ran some adds in the local papers looking to buy antique tools and got to many replies with most people having junk or want to much for it, I do have friends that have done well with them though.
I would run an add and put up one on public boards like you see in grocery stores

Saw Two Anvils, a leg vise and a big forge blower yesterday at my weekly auction I go too, I didn't see what they went for

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by cv66er » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:25 am

If you're serious about blacksmithing, make sure you don't end up buying what blacksmiths call an ASO (anvil shaped object). There ase plenty of cheap "anvils" out there that won't stand up to normal use.

Have you looked into www.abana.org for resources? You could also ask around at farm shows. They sometimes have farriers doing blacksmithing demos.

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the black smith
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by the black smith » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:12 pm

yes i sent them an email asking for info, they have yet to get back to me.

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by Stercutus » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:20 pm

I don't normally respond to posts that don't use spell checker and at least make attempts at punctuation, proper grammar and logic. I will mention though that there are several forums on line dedicated to metal working.
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the black smith
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by the black smith » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:26 pm

excuse me? you dont have to respond then kid... anyway yes anyone may ask google anything, im trying to find something more local and hands on.

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by azrael99 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:12 am

here the link of a little video, that really interesting and affordable

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the black smith
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by the black smith » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:40 pm

azrael99 wrote:here the link of a little video, that really interesting and affordable

thats really neat. but im thinknig a bit bigger and most likely a coal forge

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by azrael99 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:20 am

i was thinking to make one like that but with a coffee can, same style but bigger. i gonna need to adjust a little bit the plan but it should work.
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the black smith
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by the black smith » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:26 pm

i was thinking soup can or even bigger.

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by azrael99 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:50 pm

you will maybe need 2 torch to get the right temperature.
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by ineffableone » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:47 pm

Hey thought I would share this PDF on survival blacksmithing, seems to fit in well on this thread.

A Long Term Survival Guide Scrounging Metal and Survival Blacksmithing
http://blacksmithingtutorials.com/long- ... ksmithing/
there are related pdf downloads there also

It has all sorts of neat info from finding/harvesting iron ore, what scraps work work well, improvised anvil out of train track, how to make charcoal, how to make a forge, making billows, making black smith tools, and much much more.

While this might not be everyone's cup of tea, or useful in its entirety to all, I imagine some of you would enjoy and maybe learn a few things from it. Something like this could possibly be used by a beginning hobbyist to use as one of many references.

And of course a good guide to the prepper or survivalist who wants to know how to set up a improvised blacksmith. ;)
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URBAN ASSAULT
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by URBAN ASSAULT » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:54 pm

Years ago I built a coal forge out of an old steel truck wheel.

I closed the openings in the inner dish of the wheel with welded pieces of scrap plate steel, and cut an access port in the rim so that i could reduce the angle when putting metal into the coal.

Using angle iron I welded a frame together to hold the wheel at a comfortable height, and put casters on it. This allowed me to add side work areas to the frame to hang tongs and hammers from. Also made a hook to hold a quench bucket.

In the center of the wheel I welded a circular piece of 1/2" thick plate. I made a hole in the center large enough for a small steel pipe to fit thru, then capped it with a threaded cap. This threaded cap had holes drilled thru it for air to be pumped thru, and since it was removable, I could change the cap when it got too hot or clogged with crap.

The pipe led to an L-section of pipe underneath that was attached to an old 60's era hair dryer, the type with a hose and cap. It worked good because we added a solenoid to it so we could dial the air flow to almost nothing, or crank it up if needed.

Coal was farrier's charcoal at about $20 a bag.

This forge worked great, and we built knifes and hand tools with it. If anything, we had made it a little too large, because I don't think we worked on anything over 12" long.

I eventually gave it to a friend because I was moving, but future mods planned were to make a vented hood out of light sheet metal, and adding a work light. You can build something like what we built for very little money, it's just imagination and the willingness to think outside the box that will create a useful tool.

Good luck to you.

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by procyon » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:33 am

You don't always have to use coal. We do a lot of our work while burning the scrap bark left over from splitting wood for the woodstove. You will go through more than you would coal, but free bark or wood will work. It just has to be cut/busted into fist sized chunks or smaller.

I like the DIY forge. A simple hood we use on our forge is just a 55 gal metal drum cut in half. Then cut out a U shaped section along one side to give you access to the fire. Cut another hole in the top for the vent and fit a bit of metal for a chimey (you can use the piece you cut for the U in the hood). Drill holes in the bottom edge and the lip of the forge so you can bolt it on or remove it if you need.
You will need to fill the top of the drum with sand (up to the rim) to sink heat so you don't burn out the top of your hood.
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by Nick Adams » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:38 pm

Burning Wood itself will not get hot enough to do much in the way of blacksmithing maybe heat up some small stuff enough so it could be bent etc. but not really hot enough to do any real work. I have seen special forges designed for you to use wood in and basically what they are are forges that turn wood into charcoal and it is the charcoal that you are using.
Not that hard to make charcoal the master smith I apprenticed under made it by putting wood chunks in a large iron pipe with a small hole in the end and burning it in his wood stove over night. Traditionaly it was made by controlling the air to a fire by covering it with soil.
In blacksmithing there is more to just getting your work hot is important to be able to regulate how much air is going into the fire and onto your work so that it doesn't form scale.

You can hob something together but if you are serious about getting into and really doing blacksmith work you will be far ahead to at least get a good fire pot and ash dump and a real blower. You can make the rest and it won't make any difference but you are not going to do very good work using a brake drum and a hair dryer. Same with rail road track anvils
I've seen my share of guys that wanted to get into blacksmithing give it up because they started out with hob together junk and had a hard time working with it.

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procyon
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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by procyon » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:21 am

Nick Adams wrote:Burning Wood itself will not get hot enough to do much in the way of blacksmithing maybe heat up some small stuff enough so it could be bent etc. but not really hot enough to do any real work.
Not sure what you call real work. Granted I'm not working on pieces big enough to sledge into shape, but turning a railroad spike yellow-white with cast off bark is something we do nearly every week.
... I will show you fear in a handful of dust...

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by tedbeau » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:04 am

I think blacksmithing would be a very useful skill in a Paw or just as a hobby now.

Two years ago we stopped at a garage sale down the road and from our house. The family had a bunch of stuff that their dad was selling. Apparently he was downsizing into a smaller house and needed to get rid of a lot of stuff. There was a complete forge and all the tools to go with it. It included the forge, an electric blower and a couple of anvils, assorted tongs, hammers and tools. It was a really nice setup and looked like it had only been used a little. The grate and fire box of the forge were discolored but not warped or burnt out at all.

If I had a place to put it and the money I would have considered getting it. They were asking $800 for everything except the larger anvil, from what I recall, which I am sure would be a reasonable price considering what was there and the condition.

As it was I picked up a few items from the sale including a one ton come-a-long and some tools. They also had some heavy duty electrical boxes and wire bundles. I mean heavy duty as in whole commercial building service boxes and copper wire coils that were maybe 1/2 diameter (000 or 0000 gauge?) and 50 feet long.

That was one of the best "Guys" garage sales I ever saw.

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Re: BLACKSMITHING

Post by Kelvar » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:12 pm

Stercutus, check your PMs.
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