Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls?

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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by prepper7 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Love this thread!
Rebel Pariah wrote:look into "delayed sleep phase syndrome" <snip>
Holy cow, that's me! Now I have a label (and in the world's "cereal box", one is nothing without a label); I just thought I was part hamster. My parents tell me stories of jostling my cradle to wake me during the day when I was an infant, because I would sleep all day and want to be awake and play with them all night. I've had out-of-state friends ring me, quite unapologetically, at 4 or 5AM (my time) with a breezy, "I knew you'd be up".

And to really derail this thread... :shock: I wonder if the photoreceptors in the eyes of us nightwalkers are more like those of [other] nocturnal animals than those of our daywalking fellow humans (more rods)? Perhaps we're the vanguard of the Tomorrow People?! Inquiring minds...

Aside from guarding, tracking, and guiding, there are many chores that, in an established community, are best done at night; baking comes to mind. I second the poster who suggests getting out in front of daywalker resentment of the night worker's daytime sleeping.
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by angelofwar » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:06 pm

Yep, as others have said:

Monitor Radio Waves
Fire/Security Watch
Work on tedious tasks (engineering something that may be harder to do with a lot of people around)

I get by on ~5 hours of sleep..."You can sleep when yer dead" as the saying goes. Not that I'm a partier, but my hobbies and preps keep me occupied. I have also learned that, generally speaking, being able to get by on little sleep makes you a better thinker...you can function better. Some people eat three full blown meals a day and get 11-12 hours of sleep and wonder why they're out-of shape.
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by Blacksheep » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:19 pm

prepper7 wrote:And to really derail this thread... :shock: I wonder if the photoreceptors in the eyes of us nightwalkers are more like those of [other] nocturnal animals than those of our daywalking fellow humans (more rods)? Perhaps we're the vanguard of the Tomorrow People?! Inquiring minds...
I've wondered along those lines...
I get migraines for too much bright light, and I have very good night vision...
I think its all connected,

I have also read somewhere of a correlation between DSPS and ADHD... I believe they theorized potential genetic traits from night watch ancestors

unfortunately there is also a staggering correlation of cases of DSPS also suffering from depression...
they sometimes wonder if depression causes it,.... but my $.02 from having lived with it since I was 7,
the label as "lazy" or "bum" because you have a different circadian rhythm... quite the demoralizer...
after a while you start to internalize it.. and start to wonder if maybe you are..

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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by Beowolf » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:39 pm

Migraines--check.
Battled with depression--check.
Good night vision--check, sorta. Prior to laser surgery, it was excellent. Not so excellent now, but at least I can see 20/20 in the daylight!
OCD--check. :crazy:
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by ineffableone » Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:59 pm

Rebel Pariah wrote:
prepper7 wrote:And to really derail this thread... :shock: I wonder if the photoreceptors in the eyes of us nightwalkers are more like those of [other] nocturnal animals than those of our daywalking fellow humans (more rods)? Perhaps we're the vanguard of the Tomorrow People?! Inquiring minds...
I've wondered along those lines...
I get migraines for too much bright light, and I have very good night vision...
I think its all connected,
I am very light sensitive, my sun glasses are my best friend. 8-)

I think it might be with us night owls that we just learn to use our peripheral vision more for night vision.

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The outer area is the black and white rods of vision which work better in low light to be able to see. My thinking is we adapted our focus most likely so we pay more attention to the info of that part of the eyes more. :ooh:
Rebel Pariah wrote:I have also read somewhere of a correlation between DSPS and ADHD... I believe they theorized potential genetic traits from night watch ancestors
When I was diagnosed with ADHD I heard about studies pointing toward ADHD being an adaption to hunting, but I can see it also being good for night watch too.

Interestingly the best I have ever functioned was by adopting a 30hr schedule. Breaking my day into 10hr segments. Due to this I was up for the "day" in varying times of the normal day. I tried this after learning our internal clocks adopt a 28hr day if isolated from the sun. It allowed me to be up at night like I like but also be up during days so I could visit banks etc. Sadly my experiment in this ended when I got in an argument with a friend about how could I just add an extra 6hrs to the normal 24hr day to live 30hr day schedule.

Which made me laugh quite hard seeing your "Before you.." image :clap:
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:04 pm

sounds like Non24 hour

apparently there is evidence to support the idea that most people when devoid of ALL external light cues and time devices tend to migrate towards a 26 -28 hour rythm

don't ask me where I read it though :roll:
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by ineffableone » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:33 pm

Rebel Pariah wrote:sounds like Non24 hour

apparently there is evidence to support the idea that most people when devoid of ALL external light cues and time devices tend to migrate towards a 26 -28 hour rythm

don't ask me where I read it though :roll:
Yep they were doing studies on it for bunker living during the cold war. I saw some of these studies too which is what made me try experimenting with a 30hr day, just seemed easier to break a day into 3 10 hr segments. 10hrs rest, 10hrs work, 10hrs play. Worked wonderfully except conflicts with friends and difficulties relating to the rest of the world effectively. I was physically much happier, I slept well, and had plenty of time to do the things I wanted to do. I was awake at different times as I cycled through the normal 24hr day with different times of being awake or asleep. So I got to see the sun rise and sun set at different points in my schedule.

Big problem with this schedule, the rest of society does not understand it and it makes relating to others difficult. Not to mention job issues.

In PAW though I would likely adopt the 30hr system once again. So I could cycle in and out of night watch effectively.
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by ineffableone » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:56 pm

BTW some tasks that night owls can do while on watch.

Ammo reloading, if you have ammo reloader your night watch could be making more ammo while other sleep.
Mag loading, putting that new ammo into mags
If ammo is low, arrow making could be an important task. Straightening smoothing and fetching arrows could be done at night.
Blade sharpening and maintenance is another good task for night crew. Have people drop off their blades (knives axes etc) and then pick them up in the morning all nice and sharp.
Candle making could also be done by night watch. Dipping candles is a time consuming task but one that enables night crews to work as well as for day people to spend a little time still awake at night.


:crazy: ohhh,,,,

Something I just remembered, the historical norm of sleep schedule before electric lights is a segmented sleep. http://www.history.vt.edu/Ekirch/sleepcommentary.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmented_sleep
Segmented sleep, also known as divided sleep, bimodal sleep pattern, bifurcated sleep, or interrupted sleep, is a polyphasic or biphasic sleep pattern where two or more periods of sleep are punctuated by periods of wakefulness. Along with a nap (siesta) in the day, it has been argued that this is the natural pattern of human sleep. A case has been made that maintaining such a sleep pattern may be important in regulating stress.
http://disinfo.com/2013/08/how-our-ance ... ent-shock/
In a 4-week study with 15 men living with restricted daylight hours, something strange started to happen. After catching up on their “sleep debt” – a common state of affairs for most of us – the participants began to wake up in the middle of the night:

They began to have two sleeps.

Over a twelve hour period, the participants would typically sleep for about four or five hours initially, then wake for several hours, then sleep again until morning. They slept not more than eight hours total.

The middle hours of the night, between two sleeps, was characterized by unusual calmness, likened to meditation. This was not the middle-of-the-night toss-and-turn that many of us experienced. The individuals did not stress about falling back asleep, but used the time to relax.

Russell Foster, professor of circadian neuroscience at Oxford, points out that even with standard sleep patterns, this night waking isn’t always cause for concern. “Many people wake up at night and panic,” he says. “I tell them that what they are experiencing is a throwback to the bi-modal sleep pattern.”
There is a lot more info out there on this segmented sleep, I just wanted to cover the basics here.

So us night watchers might end up getting some company in the middle of the night. Which is nice, night life might have gotten lonely. But iof people started reverting to a segmented sleep schedule some would likely come visit with the night crew, check in, talk and socialize, maybe a little midnight delight from a lovely lady :wink:

This would definitely make night watch more enjoyable.
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by Blacksheep » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:31 pm

I've read about segmented sleep, definitely different concept to me

wonder if it would be the same come SHTF...

where one is sleeping is probably a variable to consider
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by ineffableone » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:00 pm

Rebel Pariah wrote:I've read about segmented sleep, definitely different concept to me

wonder if it would be the same come SHTF...

where one is sleeping is probably a variable to consider
With out electric lights it is likely people would likely start to revert to segmented sleep. Especially if someone had witnessed horrible events. People would probably wake in the middle of the night regularly due to nightmares. I think this would push people into a segmented sleep cycle pretty quickly.

I do agree it would likely have a lot to do with where people are sleeping.
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by ineffableone » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:40 pm

SouthernPrepper1 just did a video about night shift work for WROL so I thought I would post it up here on this thread since it is adding info to this topic.

Night work on a retreat during WROL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1wGcuTVYg
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by Beowolf » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:06 pm

Will have to check that out when I have a few. Nice find!
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by Johnnie_T » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:49 pm

If you are in a cold weather environment, the first thing that comes to mind is maintaining a 24-fire. Here are a few others:

-If your community has a smokehouse, it can be run 24 hours also.
-Clothing/ equipment repair. Small fixes can often be accomplished with little light (i.e. fire or candle).
-Water purification. This goes hand in hand with water collection. If you are up when the dew falls, you can take advantage of a resource that many might sleep through.
-Foraging. Some plants and small animals/insects are easier to gather at night.

Navigation and travel have already been mentioned, but if you commit to those make sure you have a strong knowledge base to work from.

I hope these ideas have been helpful for you. I think us late-nighters will be pretty valuable if/when the situation calls for it.

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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by AfleetAlex » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:29 am

I'm a bartender, so often I'm awake late at night, chopping the days veggies to go into the dehydrator. I try to be awake by 9am, so I can keep an eye on whats happening in the world. I learned that lesson when I almost slept through 9/11. Luckily a persistant friend called me until I dragged my ass out of dreamland. The bad shit that really affects our country seems to happen during the day. It's important to be awake and ready to respond. I can always catch a quick nap in the early afternoon if needed.
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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by duodecima » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:55 pm

Rebel Pariah wrote:unfortunately there is also a staggering correlation of cases of DSPS also suffering from depression...
they sometimes wonder if depression causes it,.... but my $.02 from having lived with it since I was 7,
the label as "lazy" or "bum" because you have a different circadian rhythm... quite the demoralizer...
after a while you start to internalize it.. and start to wonder if maybe you are..

Image
There may be some folks with depressive symptoms because their sleep rhythms just can't fit into everybody else's world. But it's definitely true that folks who end up with depression tend to get their sleep all messed up by it one way or another.

Some baking/cooking stuff may be best done at night, like AfleetAlex just said. "Time to make the donuts" isn't just a cute ad meme. If the fire/stove has to be going to heat the shelter anyway, you might as well be fuel efficient and take advantage of it for baking or long-cooking items, especially if you're going to need less heat in the day.

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Re: Making the nighttime count--best roles for us night owls

Post by Beowolf » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:39 am

I could get back into baking. :)
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