The Average Joe's Life Expectancy

[Doctor Jest]

Because we work with a variety if charities, and want to maintain our good relationships with them, we insist that posts on this forum steer clear of any discussions of illegal activities.

As has been noted, if you wait until the zombies rise from the dead to start preparing, you're meat. That's what the point of this place is - to discuss how we can best be prepared for any disaster.

I can plan for someone to do try to something illegal to me without violating the law myself. I can defend myself against people seeking to harm me or mine without violating the law. All of those are okay topics of discussion. We don't discuss violating the law here as a condition of posting. That is not an okay topic of discussion.

[CryHavoc]

I can plan for someone to do try to something illegal to me without violating the law myself. I can defend myself against people seeking to harm me or mine without violating the law.

Ok, then how do you prepare for someone stealing your gear - or keep someone from stealing your gear? How do you get the gear back? What do you do if you can't get the gear back? Please, show us your plan.

[squinty]

I can plan for someone to do try to something illegal to me without violating the law myself. I can defend myself against people seeking to harm me or mine without violating the law.

Ok, then how do you prepare for someone stealing your gear - or keep someone from stealing your gear? How do you get the gear back? What do you do if you can't get the gear back? Please, show us your plan.

How do you protect yourself from crime right now?
My home and BOLs are reasonably well hardened against theft and invasion, I practice good situational awareness and know not to flaunt scarce goods in front of strangers, am prepared to defend myself against violent attack with various weapons, including firearms if the situation warrants it (in situations where common sense, ethics and the law deem lethal force to be appropriate.)

I have redundant preps: my BOLs are scattered in different directions and are all occupied by friends or family whom I trust. If something happens to my home or I can't get to it, there are people in every direction from my home that I could turn to for help. It would be rough to get to most of them on foot, but I could do it. If communication were possible they would be willing to come get me or meet me part way. We've talked about it, and planned for it. They have standing invitations to come to my home if necessary, or I'll try to rescue them if need be. All of our homes have a baseline of necessary gear and supplies.

I do not yet have gear cached in other places around my city, but there's a storage facility walking distance from work. Maybe I'll rent a unit and stick a few necessities in it, instead of relying solely on what's in my car and on my person. (A motorcycle or scooter or bike, in case the car's kaput, would fit.) There are also various properties around town that my family owns. At any given moment there are always a couple empty ones. If I can't get to my house I'll try for one of them. I'd consider putting cache's of supplies there as well, but it would be a challenge to secure stuff (they aren't all in great neighborhoods) and the goal is to keep tenants in them, so the availability won't be consistent.
Redundancy means if you're separated from or lose an essential piece of kit, by accident or theft, you have something in reserve. Belt and suspenders.

I probably wouldn't "go after" someone who stole from me. Even if losing my gear reduced my chances of survival, seeking a violent confrontation to retrieve it would drop those chances even lower - and it would be illegal in my AO to use force to retrieve property. That's different from repelling a violent attack. Gone gear is gone. Redundancy means that I have an alternative to risking my life for the water bottle and MREs someone managed to take from me. But I promise you, they'd have a tough time getting it from me in the first place.

A desperate person will do what he has to. A person without options will steal. But planning on using theft to secure what you need, even as a backup plan, is poor planning. The opposite of planning, really. It's like drinking your own pee. It's something a desperate person might do. Not something you should plan on doing, nor ever have to consider doing if you are prepared.

[CryHavoc]

How do you protect yourself from crime right now?

But 'right now' wasn't the question. The threat of being arrested/shot by the police is what barely keeps criminals in check 'right now'. We'd like to think it's a pretty nice world out there right now, but I'll bet the Police will tell you different. And even that protection can be gone if the SHTF. This is more of a Bugging Out question than a Bugging In question (although a Bugged In home intrusion or siege is also a possibility), and I really think it's a blind spot in emergency preparedness. I do like the idea of having cached gear in different places - redundancy you don't have to carry is awesome.

But the thing I'm surprised about is that no one suggested learning to make your equipment from the wild around you (and we even have a Bushcraft section on the board). You can make a spear, you can even make a knife if you know flint-knapping. You can forage for food. Make cordage from a plant. This is your Plan X. To make it alive without anything.

[squinty]

I'd protect myself from crime and violence in a PAW the same way I would right now. My AO allows for both the discreet and open carry of firearms, they will be available to me even outside my home/bug out locations, and I am proficient with them. Locks, alarms, situational awareness, discretion about revealing what I have and a the tools and skillsets needed to defend myself, the wisdom to stay out of dangerous funnels/ambush zones, etc. This wouldn't change in a disaster.

Bushcraft is fine, if you have the skills. Planning to jack other peoples stuff, which was the previous tack of this conversation, not so much.

I probably couldn't survive dropped into a disaster naked. If I were in such a situation, I think I just might dumpster dive. Find some kind of clothing/insulation, (even if it's a too big pair of pants and shirt that I stuff with dry leaves or packing peanuts, something for warmth if that's a concern,) shelter (the time honored cardboard box if that's all I could get, + there are bound to be many many plastic garbage bags that could be MacGuyvered into raincoats, tarps, groundcloths, tents, and etc.) and some kind of tools. A discarded steak knife or shard of mirror glass with some tape wrapped around it on one end, any kind of material processing tool/weapon. There's something in there that can burn, maybe something edible. Nice, miserable but not in immediate danger of death baseline. From there, hopefully on to something better. Try to get to something of mine, or someone I know, or an aid station or other source of rescue. From there, home or to a BOL.

If I were kicked out of a van, naked and blindfolded, in the middle of a strange post disaster city, that might be the first desperate thing I'd do. It would suck, and I don't see it happening. Even my EDC (usually scattered around various pants and safari shirt pockets, sometimes consolidated into a dorky fanny pack) has minimal survival gear in it - I have minimal rainwear, means to make fire and filter or purify water, some portable calories and first aid equipment. Even the least prepped home has something in it to turn towards survival, and like an earlier poster (ninja-elbow) said, the idea that one is either "prepared" or "unprepared," all or nothing, is a myth. Buy a couple gallon jugs of water and a few cans of stew on your next grocery trip, to set aside for "just in case." You are now more prepared than you were, with almost no effort. Keep making those small efforts, consistently. Buy a book about first aid one day, and read it. Consider planting a garden in the side yard. Keep adding useful stuff to the cart each week when you grocery shop - get some camping gear or portable shelters, or a crank radio. keep at it. You don't have to break the bank or upend your life.

[squinty]

How are you going to increase it?

Here's a scenario. You are an average person living in a middle-class area. Some sort of significant disaster strikes, (for this example, ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!) and you need to escape. You don't have time to gather many supplies- you only have common household items, kitchen knives, heavy canned foods, backpacks or bags not made for long-term carrying, etc etc. Staying in your home is not an option, from what you have heard on the radio / television / other source, the undead will be upon your town in less than a few days, and mass panic is happening. The roads are beyond clogged, looting and rioting are beginning to start up, and your once-quiet community is rapidly descending into chaos.

What do you do now?

For me, personally, I would have no clue, and either make some stupid mistake and die, or get incredibly lucky and escape. I have high mobility on my side, and that's something, right? My only weapon would most likely be whatever I could find around the house that looked like it had a chance of harming something, and I'd most likely have an old school-bag. If it were to happen right now, I'd essentially have kitchen knives, a baseball bat, and random crap found around the house.

I'm boned.

Welp. Do you have a good idea what's going on, or know where you need to go and how to get there? If you know that - if you have a destination and a tentative route - you can improvise. Put on the sturdiest footwear you own, and climate appropriate layers, and fill up an old school bag with whatever you think might be useful. Do you have a vehicle you plan to use? Toss more stuff in the trunk. Get as far as you can in the vehicle, and live off the trunk stuff first, keep the bag stocked for if ever/when ever you're forced to abandon the vehicle.

There are worse tools than an old school bag. My range bag is a twelve year old, battered and abused Jansport bookbag with a special round pocket for the kind of portable cd player noone makes anymore. I've lugged heavy textbooks and I've filled it to bursting with handguns and heavy boxes of ammo, and thrown it around. It's still intact.

"Random crap around the house" can include a lot of useful items, you just inconvenienced yourself by not having them prepacked.

Take some kitchen knives. They're knives. They cut stuff. You can baton with a butcher knife or shave tinder and make fuzz sticks with a kitchen knife. What other random crap? There's some kind of portable/nonrefrigerated food to throw in. A bottle to carry water in? (Bottled water in the fridge) A container into which you can put a little unscented clorox from the laundry room, if you're worried about running out of water and needing to purify water you find on the way. Raingear? Sleeping bags or blankets? Extra socks and jacket? Are there bandaids or iodine or antibiotics in the bathroom medicine cabinet? Hand sanitizer? Extra roll of TP? (hygiene and helps with fire starting.) Portable radio or boom box or something to listen to weather and news reports (emergency broadcast system &etc.) Got a map in your glovebox? A flashlight in the kitchen or toolroom? If the roads are impassable, how about a bicycle? Can you plot an alternate course, if the roads are too dangerous (maybe fighting your way through stranded motorists is a bad idea, IDK) Point is, you aren't boned yet. Try.

[Ableto]

Acctuly what you need to ask is, Why put your gear in a position to be stolen in the first place. If your in a SHTF situation, you do not want to put your gear down unless you have to, and secondly you do not leave it out of your site.

If you got to take a leak, dont do it out in the open where ppl can see you. Taking a leak will make you an easy target. Second always have your bag in grabing distance. even wrap one of your feet in one of the arm straps. In a world where you think everyone is out to take your gear, you do not leave it alone for any second.

So pretty much learn to not be put in the situation of loosing the bag you have.

[Ableto]

How are you going to increase it?

Here's a scenario. You are an average person living in a middle-class area. Some sort of significant disaster strikes, (for this example, ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!) and you need to escape. You don't have time to gather many supplies- you only have common household items, kitchen knives, heavy canned foods, backpacks or bags not made for long-term carrying, etc etc. Staying in your home is not an option, from what you have heard on the radio / television / other source, the undead will be upon your town in less than a few days, and mass panic is happening. The roads are beyond clogged, looting and rioting are beginning to start up, and your once-quiet community is rapidly descending into chaos.

What do you do now?

For me, personally, I would have no clue, and either make some stupid mistake and die, or get incredibly lucky and escape. I have high mobility on my side, and that's something, right? My only weapon would most likely be whatever I could find around the house that looked like it had a chance of harming something, and I'd most likely have an old school-bag. If it were to happen right now, I'd essentially have kitchen knives, a baseball bat, and random crap found around the house.

I'm boned.

Welp. Do you have a good idea what's going on, or know where you need to go and how to get there? If you know that - if you have a destination and a tentative route - you can improvise. Put on the sturdiest footwear you own, and climate appropriate layers, and fill up an old school bag with whatever you think might be useful. Do you have a vehicle you plan to use? Toss more stuff in the trunk. Get as far as you can in the vehicle, and live off the trunk stuff first, keep the bag stocked for if ever/when ever you're forced to abandon the vehicle.

There are worse tools than an old school bag. My range bag is a twelve year old, battered and abused Jansport bookbag with a special round pocket for the kind of portable cd player noone makes anymore. I've lugged heavy textbooks and I've filled it to bursting with handguns and heavy boxes of ammo, and thrown it around. It's still intact.

"Random crap around the house" can include a lot of useful items, you just inconvenienced yourself by not having them prepacked.

Take some kitchen knives. They're knives. They cut stuff. You can baton with a butcher knife or shave tinder and make fuzz sticks with a kitchen knife. What other random crap? There's some kind of portable/nonrefrigerated food to throw in. A bottle to carry water in? (Bottled water in the fridge) A container into which you can put a little unscented clorox from the laundry room, if you're worried about running out of water and needing to purify water you find on the way. Raingear? Sleeping bags or blankets? Extra socks and jacket? Are there bandaids or iodine or antibiotics in the bathroom medicine cabinet? Hand sanitizer? Extra roll of TP? (hygiene and helps with fire starting.) Portable radio or boom box or something to listen to weather and news reports (emergency broadcast system &etc.) Got a map in your glovebox? A flashlight in the kitchen or toolroom? If the roads are impassable, how about a bicycle? Can you plot an alternate course, if the roads are too dangerous (maybe fighting your way through stranded motorists is a bad idea, IDK) Point is, you aren't boned yet. Try.

Many houses have things to put in a bag for survival. Aluminum foil is handy for many things. Cotton balls, and a container of vasoline are good to have. Canned food, and other dry food items work well. Lighters and matches are also good. When making my GHB and BOB i used a lot of things from around my house in the bags. Just have to be creative with what you have. Like i collected at least 6 key rings for backpack strap holders if the plastic strap holder broke (you use 2 for adjustable strap holders). Altoid cans for holding small things like matches, tinder, bandaids, etc.

Just look around the house and see what other uses can you get out of each item you have.

[Domindart]

I may have to bug out on my scooter , dodge and weave thru the abandoned cars and buzz along to my BOL

[lolinski]

What I would attempt to do is to organise neighbours and friends to make a makeshift wall out of cars(not all are in use if the roads are clogged) around for instance a shopping centre or off-radar neighbourhood, in the edges of the city.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

The problem with taking someone else's shit, is that the're gonna want it back. Bad. If you take someone else's shit, you may have doomed them to die, adding murder to your list of crimes.

Much better to practice keeping an eye on your own shit.

[squinty]

The problem with taking someone else's shit, is that the're gonna want it back. Bad. If you take someone else's shit, you may have doomed them to die, adding murder to your list of crimes.

Much better to practice keeping an eye on your own shit.

Mine has corn!

[phractal]

Mine has corn!

I've had christmas tinsel in mine for about 2 weeks.

[cdreid]

Knowledge.

That is what you really need. Everyone here knows that deep down. Anyone here read the foxfire books? Ill bet you all have. It is the knowledge that is valuable. You can always aquire stuff even if "shtf". If you are a modern human you live in civilisation at its technological high point . Period. Even you "out in the woods "people do. Supplies are all around you. Things like food would be your problem short term and you know it. Long term is where your needs get urgent. You dont see a lot of posts about people hording seeds do you. I'd rather have 20 seed packets than the $3000 "Years supply of MRE's" the weirdo "tacticool' nuts have.

How bout - something to start fires (vaseline/cotton balls, some lighters, firesteel etc)
Knives.
axe/hatchet/saw
A bicycle/car/motorcycle
As much food as possible.
Plastic sheeting/sheets/blankets.
CLOTHES!

That will keep you alive. After that everything youre working towards is luxury (we've become used too)

As for the folks thinking they could take something.. try it down south see how that works out for ya. EVERY single person i know has toys that blow large holes in walls waiting for people like you. And where im from they tend to hunt etc so while youre planning your clever "ill sit on this hill and murder people" that person who hunts and is NOT a criminal scumbag probably has your number on a bullet.

[CharlieMike]

A lot of people seem stuck on the idea of scavenging/stealing. There are several posts that use real world accounts of jack-assery during catastrophic events to show that this is a horrible idea all around. Not only that, not discussing illegal activity is one of the conditions of using this forum. If you want to discuss the finer points of being a thug...start your own forum and leave the rest of us to expand our knowledge base for actually being prepared.

Just remember the five paragraph OPORDER doesn't have a paragraph covering war crimes. Just my .02 CM

[koyoteefyre]

In order to survive any situation you must be able to think on your feet. Do not get so dependent on any one piece of equipment, chances are you will lose it along the way. A simple knife can be made from a shard of broken glass wrapped in tape or cloth. There should be plenty of glass, twisted metal, and other materials that will be laying about unclaimed. Also asking works too who knows they may have extra and be willing to share or may have no use for the item and be willing to trade. Making enemies is not a wise choice any time but especially in a temporary state of lawlessness, that is not survival but but eventual death.

[MandoMan7]

Part of Disater-Prep is skill aquasition. you could have all the tools in the world, but if you dont have the skills to use them, you're still in for a worl of hurt. My advice, learn the skills while your getting the tools now before the defication hits the oscillating ventilation unit.

http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Survival-Gu ... 1450582230
http://offgridsurvival.com/

[tedbeau]

Ok, here's a question then: how do you prepare for someone stealing your gear? Or for, say, an earthquake opening up the ground before you and separating you from your gear when you went around the corner to take a leak? How do you improvise your equipment? I know the first skill is knowing what equipment you need, but after that... Do you find your way to the nearest junk yard or garbage dump (or dumpster) and look through the junk? And before someone says that that's theft, several judges have ruled that once someone throws something away, there's no longer any expectation of it being "property" any longer. (Just ask Radio Shack.)

This possibility is why my bug out gear includes an OWB holster and my EDC glock plus several spare mags and spare ammo. Sure it adds weight, but it also gives me a means to keep what's mine. I know that some of you are going to point out that in most states, (Texas maybe being the exception) you can not use deadly force to protect property. My CPL class instructor put it this way, if someone is trying to take something out of your hands and you refuse to let go the only way they could make you let go would be to use force on you, once this force exculates to whats considered dangerous, able to cause serious injury they have crossed the line to trying to harm you. At that point deadly force is justified to protect yourself from harm. Also the fact that I am openly displaying a weapon would most likely deter most thieves. They would much rather take a chance on someone that isn't armed.

[ww3sabiture]

Strange because I "liberated" a duce after katrina to help get people to the safe zones and all i got after was a thank you for helping and a dont pull that stunt again.

[maldon007]

Some times you get a slap on the wrist, some times buck-shot in the ass... Depends on who's stuff you "borrow".

[whisk.e.rebellion]

Strange because I "liberated" a duce after katrina to help get people to the safe zones and all i got after was a thank you for helping and a dont pull that stunt again.

Sometimes you post about committing illegal acts on the forum of a non-profit organization that frowns upon such things. Re-read our rules.

[Neddog]

I think you should be armed enough to defend yourself, but you shouldn't be waging war on anyone and don't need heavy armaments. You just need to protect yourself on your way out of the city, then you should be relatively safe from all but the random bandits thereafter. My machete and axe which are necessary camping tools anyways, are all I really need. I don't need guns. On the other hand, if you choose to stay in your home and barricade yourself in, that's when you need heavier arms. I rent and have no ties to my home. I wouldn't hang around, myself.