Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAPHIC*

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by TacAir » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:37 pm

koyoteefyre wrote:Wear bells and noisy things on you, most bear encounters take place because of surprise. Most bears have very thick hide which hand guns rarely penetrate, and who is going to hike with a rifle ? You have a better chance with a good fighting knife as bears attack fast and bring you close in. Go for eyes, mouth, under jaw, or hate to say it groin.
OK - but never take knife to a bear fight. You'll be dinner. There is one - proven - instance where a guy killed a bear with a Buck folder. One.


As for handguns... size does matter.
rush, a veteran salmon fishing guide from the town of Soldotna, was walking his dogs on a rare day off from work. On his hip was a large handgun, a Ruger chambered for the powerful .454 Casull cartridge. Brown bears are a constant presence in Brush’s neighborhood, and many residents feel the largely-unhunted animals have little fear of man.

Because of many bear-related incidents in this area, Brush always has brown bears on his mind…even when walking a well-maintained road. On just such a road, less than 500 yards from his house, Brush stopped when he heard a twig snap behind him. Turning his head toward the sound, Brush saw a monstrous brown bear charging toward him. “There was no warning,” he stresses. “None of the classic teeth-popping or woofing, raising up on hind legs, or bluff-charging that you read about. When I spotted him he was within 15 yards, his head down and his ears pinned back. He was coming like a freight train…in total chase-mode.”
(Source) The bear died at his feet. After 5 shots - and his gun had jammed....
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Woods Walker » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:07 am

TacAir wrote: OK - but never take knife to a bear fight. You'll be dinner. There is one - proven - instance where a guy killed a bear with a Buck folder. One....
Are you sure of that.

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:53 am

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Maverick299 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:05 pm

This settles it, next time I'm in bear country I am leaving the guns, knives and kung-fu kicks to the balls at home and bringing my buffalo.



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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by fourway » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:43 pm

oh good... the john west salmon commercial.
Its ia real bear thread now.
Now if someone can just do the brown bear poop has bells in it joke we can wrap this thing up and put a bow on it.

obtopic: Statistics like these would certainly be skewed by the fact that a large percentage of bear attacks are caused by people doing stupid shit and carrying a gun does not automatically make you smarter.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by FlungPup » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:55 pm

TacAir wrote:
OK - but never take knife to a bear fight. You'll be dinner. There is one - proven - instance where a guy killed a bear with a Buck folder. One.

There may be two. I know this guy and he's got the bear stuffed in his living room.

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by TacAir » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:18 pm

fourway wrote:oh good... the john west salmon commercial.
Its ia real bear thread now.
Now if someone can just do the brown bear poop has bells in it joke we can wrap this thing up and put a bow on it.

obtopic: Statistics like these would certainly be skewed by the fact that a large percentage of bear attacks are caused by people doing stupid shit and carrying a gun does not automatically make you smarter.
Bells not effective

"Over several days last fall, while doing other research about bear behavior along the coast of Katmai National Park, Smith hid in a blind near a well-traveled bear path and pulled on fishing line attached to a string of bells tied to an alder bush. Not one bear looked in the direction of the noise or even perked up its ears, Smith said."

May only be in Alaska that bears aren't worried about bells. But, since that's the kind I worry about...

Noisemakers are not a magic talisman...oh, wait.

Bells? Sure, why not? Shotgun, just in case the bells fail in their magic? That's what most North Slope guides carry.

It's also why we never sleep where we cook/eat. Cook, eat and move on to a campsite. Can't say if it's the deal, but has always worked for me. We avoid foods like peanut butter, tuna and such to avoid the smell on our gear. YMMV.

Alaska is a great place to live and visit. Compared to the sheer number of visitors, bear attacks really are minor issue, people are otherwise so inventive in finding ways to kill themselves.
Last edited by TacAir on Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by koyoteefyre » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:54 am

After my last post I have found a hand gun that will improve your chances in bear country. Dessert Eagle 50. Cal. if you hit any part of a bear( Again if you can get an aimed shot off.) you would remove said bear part. This round will go through concrete or brick, bear flesh should be no problem. and the ultimate rule of combat is to inflict more damage to your opponent than he can willingly withstand, before he does it to you! If you blow off the bears paw, foot,jaw it will take the fight out of him no doubt.

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Bender711 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:18 am

koyoteefyre wrote:After my last post I have found a hand gun that will improve your chances in bear country. Dessert Eagle 50. Cal. if you hit any part of a bear( Again if you can get an aimed shot off.) you would remove said bear part. This round will go through concrete or brick, bear flesh should be no problem. and the ultimate rule of combat is to inflict more damage to your opponent than he can willingly withstand, before he does it to you! If you blow off the bears paw, foot,jaw it will take the fight out of him no doubt.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:12 pm

koyoteefyre wrote:After my last post I have found a hand gun that will improve your chances in bear country. Dessert Eagle 50. Cal. if you hit any part of a bear( Again if you can get an aimed shot off.) you would remove said bear part. This round will go through concrete or brick, bear flesh should be no problem. and the ultimate rule of combat is to inflict more damage to your opponent than he can willingly withstand, before he does it to you! If you blow off the bears paw, foot,jaw it will take the fight out of him no doubt.
Is that the Desert Eagle in .50 BMG?

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Maverick299 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:16 pm

Tetra Grammaton Cleric wrote:
koyoteefyre wrote:After my last post I have found a hand gun that will improve your chances in bear country. Dessert Eagle 50. Cal. if you hit any part of a bear( Again if you can get an aimed shot off.) you would remove said bear part. This round will go through concrete or brick, bear flesh should be no problem. and the ultimate rule of combat is to inflict more damage to your opponent than he can willingly withstand, before he does it to you! If you blow off the bears paw, foot,jaw it will take the fight out of him no doubt.
Is that the Desert Eagle in .50 BMG?

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.50 BMG, .50 AE.....same difference :lol:

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Tetra Grammaton Cleric » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:27 pm

Maverick299 wrote:
Tetra Grammaton Cleric wrote:
koyoteefyre wrote:After my last post I have found a hand gun that will improve your chances in bear country. Dessert Eagle 50. Cal. if you hit any part of a bear( Again if you can get an aimed shot off.) you would remove said bear part. This round will go through concrete or brick, bear flesh should be no problem. and the ultimate rule of combat is to inflict more damage to your opponent than he can willingly withstand, before he does it to you! If you blow off the bears paw, foot,jaw it will take the fight out of him no doubt.
Is that the Desert Eagle in .50 BMG?

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.50 BMG, .50 AE.....same difference :lol:

(laced heavily with sarcasm)
:wink:

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koyoteefyre, wanna try this (shitty shot placement and all) on a pissed off mama grizzly with that deagle .50?

may be distressing for some viewers


^I didn't see no "blown off paws". :?

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Paladin1 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:31 pm

^Poor shot placement^

Looked like the first shot was rear quartering shot, not exactly ideal.

Anyhoo's, there is no way I'm going into large predator country unarmed.

I'm fully aware that attacks are extremely rare, and my hope would be to take a shot with a camera, not a gun!

I'm also am not going to be walking around naked smeared with honey.

But I put this into the same category as a CCW, house insurance, etc. While I have never, in decades, had to use either, it only takes once for it to be a catastrophic, life changing (or ending) occurrence.

I go into the woods with shelter, water, food, medical kit, and all the other things that are prudent to pack. If your going into an area with large predators why wouldn't you also have that contingency covered off as well?
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by grennels » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:33 pm

I don't know much about bears so can somebody explain something to me?

Bear spray deters the bear by causing pain to his eyes, nose and mouth?

So wouldn't five or six FMJ .45 slugs to the facial area cause at least as much discouragement?

The remaining shots can be reserved to shoot yourself if the above proves incorrect.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Bender711 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:43 pm

grennels wrote:I don't know much about bears so can somebody explain something to me?

Bear spray deters the bear by causing pain to his eyes, nose and mouth?

So wouldn't five or six FMJ .45 slugs to the facial area cause at least as much discouragement?

The remaining shots can be reserved to shoot yourself if the above proves incorrect.
This has always been my theory. I figure few creatures will stick around the monster that makes loud noises and causes pain.

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by bonanacrom » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:50 pm

Well it's personal preference to carry or not. Me, I'd rather have than not. I shot and dropped a bear at 8 feet away from me hunting, it's shot placement that makes you safer.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by jamoni » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:54 am

I just did a study that showed that guns are awesome. I asked one guy, myself, if guns were awesome. He said yes. Therefore, guns are awesome.

I figure my study has about as much validity as theirs, with the same degree of rigor and impartiality.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by jamoni » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:58 am

grennels wrote:I don't know much about bears so can somebody explain something to me?

Bear spray deters the bear by causing pain to his eyes, nose and mouth?

So wouldn't five or six FMJ .45 slugs to the facial area cause at least as much discouragement?

The remaining shots can be reserved to shoot yourself if the above proves incorrect.
To be fair, even in humans adrenaline dump can negate the immediate effects of a gunshot wound. Their body is geared to suppress the inital pain from that kind of trauma during stress.
There are no systems to suppress the feeling of "MY FUCKING FACE IS ON FIRE!!!!"
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by fourway » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:59 pm

Anywhere there are bears there are folks around to tell you that people get mauled to death by bears that they have shot multiple times in the head and even in the heart.
Its anecdotal sure... but it is conventional bear country wisdom.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Bender711 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:26 pm

Wouldn't a taser work? Incapacitation assuming it was powerful enough. Then just hope the bear stays down long enough to GTFO.

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Maverick299 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:03 pm

Bender711 wrote:Wouldn't a taser work? Incapacitation assuming it was powerful enough. Then just hope the bear stays down long enough to GTFO.

Doubt it would get past that thick fur and skin, plus limited range. With a gun you can fire a warning shot and can shoot when they are charging, not so much with a taser. Not to mention the added benefits of gun when it comes to a angry porcupine or coon that your dog takes a new found interest in. A gun in the wilderness is a very useful tool.
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by JohnE » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:16 pm

Doubt it would get past that thick fur and skin, plus limited range. With a gun you can fire a warning shot and can shoot when they are charging, not so much with a taser. Not to mention the added benefits of gun when it comes to a angry porcupine or coon that your dog takes a new found interest in. A gun in the wilderness is a very useful tool.[/quote]

"warning shot"...Really?

Explain how that would work if you would, at what point of the encounter with the bear does one fire a warning shot exactly?
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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by Chase The hero » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:50 pm

JohnE wrote:Doubt it would get past that thick fur and skin, plus limited range. With a gun you can fire a warning shot and can shoot when they are charging, not so much with a taser. Not to mention the added benefits of gun when it comes to a angry porcupine or coon that your dog takes a new found interest in. A gun in the wilderness is a very useful tool.
"warning shot"...Really?

Explain how that would work if you would, at what point of the encounter with the bear does one fire a warning shot exactly?[/quote]

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Re: Study finds that guns dont make bear country safer *GRAP

Post by TacAir » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:56 pm

Bender711 wrote:Wouldn't a taser work? Incapacitation assuming it was powerful enough. Then just hope the bear stays down long enough to GTFO.
Odd that you should bring that up.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?secti ... id=7962069" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.adn.com/2011/02/15/1705259/m ... ed-by.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But when the Fish and Wildlife folks use TASERs, they work. More better magic from a State owned TASER?

Law enforcement officers have long used Tasers, generally known as electronic control devices, to safely subdue humans. But what about using them on wildlife?

Some wildlife managers might have wondered about the concept, but until recently no one had seriously investigated using the electronic immobilization guns as a wildlife management tool.

That attitude now could be changing due to groundbreaking work by Larry Lewis, a wildlife technician with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game in Soldotna.

Lewis’ work investigating the use of Tasers on wildlife, done in collaboration with other Alaska Department of Fish and Game biologists, appears to hold promise for adding Tasers to the tool kit of options used by modern wildlife managers.

So far, “This is proving to be a good and useful tool,” Lewis said. “We’re going to keep working on it.”

Lewis said he began his experimental work several years ago after a harrowing experience with an angry moose and a Taser gun prompted his curiosity.

Lewis teamed up with other Fish and Game staff, including veterinarian Kimberlee Beckmen, research biologist Tom Lohuis and wildlife management biologists Neil Barten and Phil Mooney, to study the effect of Tasers on bears and moose.

Based on positive results from that work, Lewis has since attended Taser International’s instructor, armorer and master instructor courses, written a state operating procedure for Taser use on wildlife and received approval to train department staff to use Tasers in limited circumstances.

Fish and Game appears to be the first state wildlife agency in the country that has experimented with using Tasers for wildlife management.

Lewis said the concept was met with skepticism and resistance at first, but appears to be slowly gaining some acceptance.

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