Importing blades from the US

[frogdude]

As a long time collector of meieval weaponary and movie replicas, i'm always trawling the net for interesting pieces. There's a couple of models i'm interested in from a stateside store, and i wondered if anyone here had successfully ordered from the US?

The shipping costs are reasonable, and from what i can find on the govt. customs site there's no legal issue. But what about import duty? Anyone have any ideas on the percentages? I cant find anything on their pages. The blades i'm interested in could quite legitimately be classed as either objects of art or agricultural tools.

[Mole]

I've ordered lots of things from the States and thankfully have never been hit by tax or duty. I guess I'm just lucky. However I've never ordered knives from overseas.

Any item coming into the UK is subject to import VAT and/or customs duty. Goods will be charged with VAT if they value over £18, unless they are sent as a gift and then the limit goes up to £40. If the goods value over £135 you'll have to pay custom duty as well, which can be anything from 0-85% of the item's value (depending on what category they fall into), but on average it's normally about 5-9%.

Oh, and don't forget to add on the fees that Royal Mail will charge for releasing your stuff from customs for you.

Whatever the items are, if someone decides that they are "offensive weapons" (which includes swords with a curved blade exceeding 50cms in length), then your stuff WILL be seized and there's very little you can do about it.

All this info is available on the HMRC website, you just have to dig for it.

[frogdude]

I dont think what i'm after would be offensive weapon (a Book of Eli replica sword/machete with a 18.5 inch blade, and parang/kukri cross with a 12 inch blade).

Just had a dig around and found this
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1082097677&lang=en&type=RESOURCES
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1082097732&r.i=1082097677&r.l1=1079717544&r.l2=1082116371&r.l3=1082096002&r.t=RESOURCES&type=RESOURCES

[mattltm]

I dont think what i'm after would be offensive weapon (a Book of Eli replica sword/machete with a 18.5 inch blade, and parang/kukri cross with a 12 inch blade).

Not an offensive weapon! Your kidding right?

[Mole]

The Kukri will probably be OK but the Book of Eli blade will have government officials crapping their pants! That's if they open the packages tho... As I said, I've ordered a load of stuff from overseas and I've never once had them stopped.

I'd really love an Eli blade. That's one cool looking knife. If you get one make sure you post pictures.

[the_alias]

Was it TC who had something confiscated? Hopefully he will swing by with his experience.

It being a replica prob makes it acceptable.

[frogdude]

I dont think what i'm after would be offensive weapon (a Book of Eli replica sword/machete with a 18.5 inch blade, and parang/kukri cross with a 12 inch blade).

Not an offensive weapon! Your kidding right?

Sorry, wrong use of terminology. According to the govt. website, they would fall into the category of "offensive weapons that can be imported" (although the list of offensive weapons only mentions "swords with a curved blade of more than 50cm"). All very confusing.

The 2 links in my last post are for the government lists for offensive weapons, and non-restricted offensive weapons. If anyone wants to have a read through and confirm what i have deduced, that would be cool.


On a positive note, i've had an email from the vendor saying that they dispatch "several orders a week" to the UK, and have never had reports of problems. He also said that he'd let me know beforehand if he thought there might be any legality issues.

[fourpaws]

I dont think what i'm after would be offensive weapon (a Book of Eli replica sword/machete with a 18.5 inch blade, and parang/kukri cross with a 12 inch blade).

Not an offensive weapon! Your kidding right?

Sorry, wrong use of terminology. According to the govt. website, they would fall into the category of "offensive weapons that can be imported" (although the list of offensive weapons only mentions "swords with a curved blade of more than 50cm"). All very confusing.

The 2 links in my last post are for the government lists for offensive weapons, and non-restricted offensive weapons. If anyone wants to have a read through and confirm what i have deduced, that would be cool.


On a positive note, i've had an email from the vendor saying that they dispatch "several orders a week" to the UK, and have never had reports of problems. He also said that he'd let me know beforehand if he thought there might be any legality issues.

Did you get the blades in the end ?? Im looking at the new KaBar ZK knives. Ive had a KaBar before, the "normal" fighting type knife on my webbing, before it got stolen.. I'd love to get another one knowing how well they were/are built... Just be interested if you had any problems getting them through customs.

Cheers,

'Paws.

[TC]

Sorry for having missed this thread before. Unfortunately, I have a fair amount of experience in this area.

First though, go to the British Blades Law Forum and do some reading.

To give you a rough guide to what will get through and what will cause you grief, bear in mind the following:

-Do NOT try to import ANY folding knife into the UK. Even if it is 100% legal, it is very likely that it will be stopped. One chap on BB had his UKPK confiscated and destroyed on the accusation that it was a flick knife, despite the obvious fact that it did not lock open and could, therefore, not be a flick knife in any way under UK law. Personally, I lost a CRKT M21 folding knife this way, even though they are widely available in the UK. In short, if you are after a folder, buy from a UK company like Heinnie Haynes. It will cost more but you will get your knife, it is quicker and they can source almost anything you ask for as a special order.

-Fixed blades are fine to import on the whole. However, this does not include curved blades over 50cm unless it is a traditionally handmade blade. I imported a KA-BAR Next Generation 7" knife about three years ago with no faff. As long as your fixed blade isn't a mass produced 50"+ knife or incorporating anything that is outright banned, like knuckledusters (to incorrectly include full hand guards thanks to overzealous HMRC staff), you should be fine.

Just because an item isn't legal to carry without 'good reason' doesn't make it illegal to import. For example, if you wander around with a fixed blade without good reason, you are in possession of an offensive weapon. However, it is not an offensive weapon to possess at home or anywhere you have good reason to have it. You obviously can't bring in any truly banned 'offensive weapons' though, which are:

* Balisong or butterfly knife
* Knuckleduster
* Telescopic truncheon
* Push dagger
* Shuriken, shaken, or death star
* Handclaw
* Footclaw
* Manrikgusari or kusari (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip)
* Swordstick
* Hollow kubotan (cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes)
* Blowpipe or blowgun
* Kusari gama (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle)
* Kyoketsu shoge (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife)
* Belt buckle knife
* Disguised knife (added to the list by the 2002 amendment)
* Stealth knife (added to the list by the 2004 amendment)

Having said all of that though, I don't import any blades any more under any circumstances. Even though you can save some money, you have to wait a good long time for it to arrive, all the while worrying if it will ever make it to you. What's more, you can and likely will be slapped with duty to be paid on the knife, negating any savings. Then you have to pay ParcelFarce's extortionate 'admin and handling fee'. It just isn't worth it.

You are far better off giving your custom to a UK company that supports the rights of its customers and provides excellent service. The previously mention Heinnie Haynes are an excellent example of such a company.

Again, apologies for the late response. I hope that this post helps someone.

[fourpaws]

Thanks TC... yeah all good advice.. I've used Haynes before for some bits and pieces... always good..

I'll have a look at what they've got and think about it..

Cheers.

'Paws.

[TC]

Thanks TC... yeah all good advice.. I've used Haynes before for some bits and pieces... always good..

I'll have a look at what they've got and think about it..

Cheers.

'Paws.

No problem.

You wouldn't happen to be ProjeKtWEREWOLF over on British Blades and EDCForums would you ?

[fourpaws]

Nope... not me.. sorry mucker.. I like knives and stuff that goes bang but I've never joined a forum to talk about them !

Hope theres not a problem !

Cheers again,

'Paws.

[BigBossMan]

You obviously can't bring in any truly banned 'offensive weapons' though, which are:

* Balisong or butterfly knife
* Knuckleduster
* Telescopic truncheon
* Push dagger
* Shuriken, shaken, or death star
* Handclaw
* Footclaw
* Manrikgusari or kusari (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at each end to a hard weight or hand grip)
* Swordstick
* Hollow kubotan (cylindrical container containing a number of sharp spikes)
* Blowpipe or blowgun
* Kusari gama (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a sickle)
* Kyoketsu shoge (rope, cord, wire or chain fastened at one end to a hooked knife)
* Belt buckle knife
* Disguised knife (added to the list by the 2002 amendment)
* Stealth knife (added to the list by the 2004 amendment)

Does the UK have a ninja problem?

[TC]

Nope... not me.. sorry mucker.. I like knives and stuff that goes bang but I've never joined a forum to talk about them !

Hope theres not a problem !

Cheers again,

'Paws.

Haha, no problem at all. I just saw someone over at that forum asking about importing a KA-BAR ZK knife and thought it must be you!

Does the UK have a ninja problem?

Unfortunately, yes. Then again, what country doesn't these days? What's even worse, once we banned ninja's, the power vacuum was filled with samurai, so we've had to ban their swords as well!

[freenarative]

It is a criminal offence under the Criminal Justice Act 1988, section 139 to posses a blade or pointed object IN A PUBLIC PLACE! not in your own home. There are laws so you can possess legally but For obvious reasons I won't detail them here. your "truley banned list", excluding the truncheon and belt buckle,well,,,, I own at least one of each, and all checked by by customs. I always pay my import taxes and other various duties too. They confiscate to deter nutters who are a bit mental and think they are Shinobi or samurai.

And now for the good news. 2 weeks back I got a new CRKT M16-10KZ for a display. despite what their site says,,,, it's not spring loaded. I took it apart to clean and oil it for my display and there was no spring. so because of this and because it's EXACTLY 3 inches it falls under the uk "legal to carry in public" category. since i figured this out it went right into my pocket. I use mine for my paracord work and to open post and packages etc. it's a very handy tool and I can reccomend you getting one.

[freenarative]

@bigbossman. there is some good news in my last post for you sir. Sorry, i should have mentioned that that bit was for you lol

[BigBossMan]

@bigbossman. there is some good news in my last post for you sir. Sorry, i should have mentioned that that bit was for you lol

lol

Keep your head down, brother.

[TC]

And now for the good news. 2 weeks back I got a new CRKT M16-10KZ for a display. despite what their site says,,,, it's not spring loaded. I took it apart to clean and oil it for my display and there was no spring. so because of this and because it's EXACTLY 3 inches it falls under the uk "legal to carry in public" category. since i figured this out it went right into my pocket. I use mine for my paracord work and to open post and packages etc. it's a very handy tool and I can reccomend you getting one.

No, it is not legal for EDC. The M16 locks open and is, therefore, illegal for carry without a very good reason such as for work. What's more, since it is a flipper knife, the police will definitely take a very dim view of it and you will be nicked. A court will almost certainly classify it as a flick knife and possession of an offensive weapon in a public place and off you will go to prison.

Stop carrying that knife in public if you want to avoid jail. For edc a knife must be no longer than 3" AND non-locking.

[freenarative]

And now for the good news. 2 weeks back I got a new CRKT M16-10KZ for a display. despite what their site says,,,, it's not spring loaded. I took it apart to clean and oil it for my display and there was no spring. so because of this and because it's EXACTLY 3 inches it falls under the uk "legal to carry in public" category. since i figured this out it went right into my pocket. I use mine for my paracord work and to open post and packages etc. it's a very handy tool and I can reccomend you getting one.

No, it is not legal for EDC. The M16 locks open and is, therefore, illegal for carry without a very good reason such as for work. What's more, since it is a flipper knife, the police will definitely take a very dim view of it and you will be nicked. A court will almost certainly classify it as a flick knife and possession of an offensive weapon in a public place and off you will go to prison.

Stop carrying that knife in public if you want to avoid jail. For edc a knife must be no longer than 3" AND non-locking.

thank you for your help and please don't take this the wrong way but,,,, you're wrong.
1) to be classed as a "flick knife" the law says that the knife must use a spring to open it and as i said this has no spring so the courts wouldn't class it as a flick. also it has a stud on the blade so it's not classed as a flipper.
2) possession of an offensive weapon is only criminal where someone has "any article made or adapted for use to causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use" and as I clearly stated i use mine for legal and justifiable reasons.
Yes, if i take it out of my pocket, open it and attack comeone with it, THEN, it is an offensive weapon.
3) The "locking law" applies to knives that can be locked open and "not easily closed with one hand" so in this case it would be classed as a "through tang" or "none folding" and as I can easily close this with only 2 fingers and a thumb it doesn't class as "locked"
4) I was working on some paracord items in my local park and took this out for 2 seconds to cut some cord ends. A police officer saw me and asked to see it,,,, she took a look at it,,, then said,,,,and i quote directly here "That's pretty cool where can i get one from?" then handed it back to me. so i think if it was illegal i would have been nicked there and then.

under th Prevention of Crime Act 1953 you'll only get prosecuted if an item is "made, modified or intended for the purposes of causing harm"

This is one of a handful of laws where the onus is upon the defendant to prove innocence as opposed to prosecution to prove guilt so a good knowledge of semantics and the law is helpful.

A) If arrested I would simply say "My knife is made by ckrt where the "t" stands for "tool" the OED defines a tool a;
" a noun
1.an implement, especially one held in the hand, as a hammer, saw, or file, for performing or facilitating mechanical operations.
2.any instrument of manual operation.
3.the cutting or machining part of a lathe, planer, drill, or similar machine."

so by definition of "made for" this fails to break the law.

B) The knife is unmodified and so fails to break the second part

c) as long as the knife is in my pocket when I'm stopped then i can show i did not intend to use as a weapon as it has only been used in my "work as a tool"

d) It is named thus "the CRKT M16-10KZ". No part of the name shows its intention for use as a weapon.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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I could go on but I won't. I didn't mean this to sound disparaging but after a decade of being stopped and checked i got to know my law,,,,,,and fast.

And in closing, thank you for your concern. I am grateful. Please don't take any of the above as negative, it isn't meant to be.

[TC]

No offence taken by any means. I do not agree with you though and respectfully request that you read The Law FAQ over at British Blades.

I am not new to this game and neither are they. I must reassert that according to current laws, lock knives are illegal to carry in public without evidence of 'good reason'. Unfortunately, many police officers are unfamiliar with the law, which accounts for your encounter described above.

There is a reason that the Spyderco UKPK (UK Pen Knife) was designed to be both sub 3" in blade cutting edge length AND non-locking.

Again, I'm not trying to show you up or be rude, I just don't want you to be breaking the law and potentially wind up in jail because of a misunderstanding of the law.

[freenarative]

No worries. And thank you for an interesting chat. you have given me something to think about.

[fourpaws]

Well finally got round to ordering the KaBar ZK Famine and Kharon (folder) knives.. however I'm having them sent to my work address over in the sandpit.. thankfully American Forces Mail don't have a major sad on when guys order knives and sharp things through the post !

As soon as I get them I'll post some real life pics to show you how they stand up against the nice "showroom" pics...

[TC]

Well finally got round to ordering the KaBar ZK Famine and Kharon (folder) knives.. however I'm having them sent to my work address over in the sandpit.. thankfully American Forces Mail don't have a major sad on when guys order knives and sharp things through the post !

As soon as I get them I'll post some real life pics to show you how they stand up against the nice "showroom" pics...

Awesome, looking forward to your thoughts on them!