Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London street

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Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London street

Post by the_alias » Thu May 23, 2013 3:34 am

I'm sure everyone in this forum is aware of what has happened yesterday.

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Front Pages today
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How will it affect your prepping?
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu May 23, 2013 4:38 am

Yesterday's terrorist attack on the squaddie was vile. The irony of it happening on the day that someone was arrested & charged for the Hyde Park bombing 30+ years ago was not lost on me either.

The statement of 'You people will never be safe' is a clear message of intent. Whether or not that was grandstanding or a definite threat is anyone's guess.

I'm at a slight loss as to how specifically this could affect my prepping based on the fact I live in rural N. Ireland. My situation is slightly different in that there are the periods of heightened tension here every year anyway that I always prep for; taking into account road blockages, people panic buying fuel, bread & milk etc.

This just serves as a reminder that I need to restock my food & fuel preps as I use them.
Also keep my IFAK fully stocked and organised.

I'm interested in how it will affect the prepping of you guys on the mainland.
the_alias what about you?
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by the_alias » Thu May 23, 2013 5:03 am

I'm still on the continent but it just reinforces the need for a good IFAK.

A Bombay style attack is something that no doubt keeps the security forces awake - this was one step removed from that. It is also worth noting two such attacks were foiled or didn't happen. The scarier one was the group of Islamists who hoped to go and shoot up an EDL protest - they were caught by chance and missed the demo by chance...

I'm interested to see what response is, there are groups like the EDL that will see a surge in support and interest due to this.

Worst case we see riots like Oldham, Bradford etc, but that seems sort of unlikely and I can also see some isolated incidents of things like people petrol bombing mosques.

I grew up in London on the edge of an area that had a lot of Muslim immigrants and also went to a very diverse inner city school - I've my own theories on why things will get worse in the future but I'm not sure ZS is the place for them as they touch on inherently political subjects, anyone can PM me about it though.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by fourpaws » Thu May 23, 2013 5:51 am

Agreed The_Alias... this isn't the place for politics... I'd just like to pass on my condolences to the family and friends of the deceased - a despicable act.

But like 'Bush says, it is a bit of a wake up call to see whether or not your EDC could be better stocked or prepped (excuse the use of the word) with basic FAK.. could it have helped to have maybe QuikClot or hemostatic bandages on you should you have come across a similar incident ? Who knows...

I do know that I'll be taking a long hard look at my FAK car bag and my EDC when I get home.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu May 23, 2013 6:09 am

The problem was that in yesterday's instance that the assailants were still there, touting for publicity. Which is a bizarre twist on the situation.
You'd have to try to administer first aid with the constant personal threat from them. No onlookers were in any way able to physically subdue them. Probably too shocked.

As we all know you cannot legally carry offensive weapons, so how could you prep for that situation? Martial arts expertise could be one way. If you knew how to quickly unarm and subdue the assailants.
Any 'have a go heroes' were at a distinct disadvantage yesterday.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by TODP » Thu May 23, 2013 6:09 am

I`d like to make a few comments from a non-British perspective, if I may. I`m not going to comment on what I think about the incident itself, because nothing productive can come out of it.

How should this affect your prepping?

I`m going for "not at all".

So, this was a gruesome terrorist attack.

Definition of a terrorist attack:
An act of violence, conducted for religious or political reasons, deliberately aimed at soft targets, in order to induce fear in a population.
(The military is not what you would call a soft target, however, a lone, unarmed soldier casually strolling down the street is.)

How is such an act of violence different from any other danger you may face?

Let`s break down what physically happened here:

A knife attack, possibly involving other weapons, by two people, on a single person who was probably oblivious of the fact that he was going to be targeted.

Well, that could have been gang activity and a case of mistaken identiy. Or a robbery gone bad. Or two really crazy people, two bad undiagnosed cases of schizophrenia. They had a religious/political motive. That means nothing for your preparations, as long as you are not in their target group.

How would you prepare against such an attack? Exactly like any other knife attack done for any other reason. Given how bad of a problem the UK had with knife violence in the past years, I think it is a safe bet that every British ZSer has already given this some thought, right? :wink:
I`m new here, but if I look around this place, people seem to be aware of the importance of First Aid knowledge and equiptment, self defence against armed attacks, situational awareness, the works. Nothing new to see here.

Actually, the same mode of thinking applies to almost all terrorist plots.

How would you prepare for a dirty bomb set of by terrorists? Exactly like you would prepare for a nuclear reactor accident.

How would you prepare for a bearded guy with a turban running down the street firing his AK at everyone? Exactly how you would prepare for a policeman snapping due to a bad case of PTSD, firing his MP5 at everyone.

Now, this incident may be something special to you as a citizien, or even just as a human being. For you as a prepper: Eh, whatever. Terrorists don`t mean shit.

Slight tangent triggered by the Front Pages the_alias linked: The Daily Mail editorial staff can go die in a fire.
wee drop o` bush wrote:I`m at a slight loss as to how specifically this could affect my prepping based on the fact I live in rural N. Ireland. My situation is slightly different in that there are the periods of heightened tension here every year anyway that I always prep for; taking into account road blockages, people panic buying fuel, bread & milk etc.
Well, at least you are used to inane acts of violence for political and religious reasons, hm? :|


Thank you for your time,
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu May 23, 2013 6:19 am

Well yes, to be honest. But sadly so too are people in England, all be it at a somewhat less frequent extent.
More recently the 7/7 bombings were a wake up call of sorts & live on in the collective unconscious.
You're right in that terrorist attacks are (usually) completely random and so catch its victims unaware and unprepared. But you can try to be mentally prepared for the slim chance that you'll get caught up in a terrorist attack, & stay vigilant: it becomes habitual.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by the_alias » Thu May 23, 2013 7:03 am

TheOldDopePeddler wrote:I`d like to make a few comments from a non-British perspective, if I may. I`m not going to comment on what I think about the incident itself, because nothing productive can come out of it.

How should this affect your prepping?

I`m going for "not at all".

Further legitimate reasoning
You may indeed good sir.

You also raise some good points - however I think there is a risk of tit for tat violence that could spiral and inadvertently. It's what comes next that might bear thinking about, the UK has had race riots in the past.

There already has been confrontations between EDL supporters and the police - when emotions are running high and people are looking for an outlet it pays to be on your guard.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by TODP » Thu May 23, 2013 7:10 am

the_alias wrote:when emotions are running high and people are looking for an outlet it pays to be on your guard.
In which case I`d like to point out my sentiment on the Daily Mail headline again.


Thank you for your time,
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by wee drop o' bush » Thu May 23, 2013 2:47 pm

The soldier has been identified as Lee Rigby, aged 25. Married with a two year old son.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by K9medic » Thu May 23, 2013 4:33 pm

It feels a little personal for me at the moment. He is the second Lad from 2nd Battalion that has been murdered; the off duty squady murdered last November in Cyprus was also from the 2nd Battalion. Different Battalion, but my Regiment. A few of us old and bold are planning to raise a glass tomorrow night in their memory (wearing or Regimental sweatshirts)
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by Svothe » Thu May 23, 2013 5:03 pm

It's a disgrace that this sort of thing can happen just some 50 miles down the road. You see the videos of it happening in Iran, Somalia etc.. but you don't want to see it on your streets or when you go to pick the kids up from school. Can't help to think its but a sign of things to come but I'll keep my why, where and whats to myself to stay off the political topic. My feelings go out massively to his family, friends and regiment who are no doubt going through an unbelievably tough time with everything going on. I'm just hoping they can bring back the death penalty for a short stint.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by sheddi » Fri May 24, 2013 1:15 am

TheOldDopePeddler wrote:Let`s break down what physically happened here:

A knife attack, possibly involving other weapons, by two people, on a single person who was probably oblivious of the fact that he was going to be targeted.

Well, that could have been gang activity and a case of mistaken identiy. Or a robbery gone bad. Or two really crazy people, two bad undiagnosed cases of schizophrenia. They had a religious/political motive. That means nothing for your preparations, as long as you are not in their target group.
Thank goodness, I'm not the only one thinking this.

I've tried explaining this to a few people, and they've all looked at me as though I'm mad.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by Angry Sapper » Sat May 25, 2013 5:47 am

This incident has put me through just about every emotion possible this week. From surprise to denial to absolute seething anger and a desperate feeling of futility. The scum that murdered this poor kid are the tip of the iceberg in my opinion. Islamists have been threatening to do this for some time now and it never happened sooner thanks to the unseen actions of the security services and vigilance by everyone targeted.

The fact that certain political parties used this as a soapbox for their twisted xenophobic ideals sickens me to the core. I'll leave the politics now, don't want to get banned.

The focus should be on this young mans family and not on sensationalism over his death. Terrorists and criminals should never be given a mouthpiece in the press and allowed to spout hatred to sell papers. I believe in a free press, but the headlines over the past few days have sickened me.
Has this incident made me frightened to wear my uniform in public, has it Feck. I always have been and always will be proud of being a soldier. To hide from scum like this only strengthens them.

Has it affected my preps, not in the slightest. Has it affected me, yes it has.

RIP Lee, never met you but proud to wear the same uniform.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by TODP » Mon May 27, 2013 5:26 am

Knife and hatchet attacks by terrorists are not that rare. Tools are easy to come by, duh.

Take just yesterday:

- In Paris, a uniformed French soldier was jumped from behind and cut in the neck, probably with a box cutter. Okay, granted, an armed soldier on patrol does not fulfil the “soft target” criteria of my arbitrary definition of terrorism, so let`s choose another example:
- In Ankara, Turkey, a group of 200 - 300 young people came together to kiss in public. They say it was a political protest against moral guardians from the Islamist spectrum and for a strong separation of church and state. I say: Since when do teenagers need an excuse for public displays of affection? ;) Anyway, a group of ca. 20 Islamists protested against this “immoral behaviour”. Mostly peaceful, until one of them pulled a knife and injured one of the kissing. I guess Kemal Atatürk would have a very specific opinion about that.

And this was only yesterday.


I`d like to make a last point, and then I`m out of here. This one may be considered political, since it touches on the topic of crime and punishment, but if I`m the party pooper who gets the thread locked, so be it.

Special treatment for terrorists: Fuck that shit.

They think they are special. Ask anyone of them if they think murder is bad. Of course they do. None of them would find it acceptable to kill the greengrocer over the price of bananas. But of course what THEY do is not murder, nono. Secular laws don`t apply to them, since they are on a mission. On their moral high ground, they think they are better than others who kill with impunity.

And guess what, a lot of their greatest enemies think that`s true. No, not that terrorists are right in what they are doing, but that they are somehow special. That there is something that warrants special treatment. That slitting someones` throat for political or religious reasons is different from doing it for monetary gain. That terrorists are different from other criminals.

Fuck them, they are not. Ordinary thugs they are. Scum. Treat them like they deserve. Like murderers. I don`t give a shit if they are terrorists, or stabbed someone in the gut because they wanted his smartphone. They are criminals either way. Show them we won`t validate their crooked world view. They are nothing special, the same rules apply to everyone. That`s what we call equality before the law, it's a core value of the very culture they hate so much.


Thank you for your time,
TODP.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by ForgeCorvus » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:50 pm

Personally I think that its a good job the coppers didn't shoot them dead....Its what they wanted, to die as a Martyr rather then to be locked up like a criminal.

A nice quite trial followed by along stretch in a grotty cell between an Arsonist and a sex-offender would be just about right.....And we can forget they even exist.



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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by TODP » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:02 am

We all know that people who attacked the state usually rank pretty high in prison hierarchy, like cop killers, who are often considered heroes. With these two this will probably not the case. They are lucky to come in slightly above child molesters.

Maybe we could initiate a little European prisoner exchange programme, and lock at least one of them up together with Anders Behring Breivik. Would be interesting to see if any side realizes that there is no difference between them and their greatest idiological enemy.

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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by ais4122 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:51 pm

Just an observation. Most of the UK replies are on making sure their IFAK is up to snuff. I don't think any IFAK can help a decapitated person. Here in the US, I imagine most replies would be to make sure you get to the range and practice, maybe take a tactical defensive pistol course. Carry a 45 rather than a 9. Carry religiously. Take some sort of Krav Magna training that focuses on realistic street fighting and knife disarming techniques. Situational Awareness at all times.
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Re: Islamists attack and kill British soldier on London stre

Post by K9medic » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:45 pm

Mate, the lad was crossing the street when he was intentionaly hit with a car, then attacked with knives. No weapon / MA would be of any use in this situation. Even if a bystander had been carrying a weapon, it might have stopped the knife attack, but not the initial hit from the car.
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