NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

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Re: NNY2011WCT!

Postby Festus Hagen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:37 am

SirSharpe wrote:a. Clark North American Jungle hammock
b. "Z-liner" (kinda like an underquilt, specific to the CJH)
c. CCF pad inside the hammock
d. -15* mummy bag
Will I live (note: I sleep cold, like "chick" cold)


Do you know the make and model of the -15 bag?

From my experience you're probably a little light on insulation... not badly light, just a little light. Adding a heavy polarfleece liner would help inside the bag if you have room, or if the bag is synthetic insulated maybe adding another sleeping bag or a blanket on top would help (if it's down you'd just compress the down and be worse off than you started, IMO) Your hammock has the top cover panels right? Those will help.

I sleep reasonably warm, I use an oversize -30 bag with a polarfleece bag liner, with a DD Underquilt (think synthetic underquilt about the size of a backpacking 15 bag) which handled -13 or so just fine last year. Adding a IX insulated hammock sock this year just for headroom in case it gets COLD.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby SirSharpe » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:53 am

Thanks everyone.

I plan on setting up the tarp (10'x12'?) similar to the pics Carol posted, closed up on the ends, and building up a snow wall at the bottom. My main bag is a Field and Stream "Hydro-dri". The insulation is some "QuadraLOFT (synthetic)". I've never tried doubling up sleeping bags, though I do have a second synthetic bag rated (i think) around +15*. Need to give that a try later this week. Plus I might spring for some down botties, those sound warm!

I haven't gotten to test this stuff in anything close to sub-zero temps (as it just doesn't get that kinda cold around here), so this will be a "trial-by-fire" dealio (if only...). Hate to do that, especially since I don't have a plan "B".

From what I read on-line, wind and condensation/ sweat seem to be my biggest concerns. Some hammock forum said not to use the top covers on my CJH, but that just sounded silly to me. Anything else?
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Rush2112 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:11 pm

Just put money down on my new (to me) car, so WCT is still a go for me at this point. Just so long as the payments don't kill my budget.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Festus Hagen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Just read the reviews on that F+S bag here

Based on what I read, definitely try out "nesting" your sleeping bags, and be gentle with that zipper! It almost sounds like they screwed up marketing this bag and it should be rated "+15" not "-15" if the reviewers are to be believed.

Just comparing fill weight (since loft, the number that really matters, is not advertised). Your bag has 3.85 lbs of Quadraloft fill... my -30 (which is an oversize mummy and a lot bigger) has 5 lbs 12 ounces of "Buckloft". OTOH my 0 bag has only 2 lbs 2 ounces of Primaloft Infinity fill so I'd think this bag of yours can't be as bad as some reviewers claim. The guy who "nearly froze to death" because his shoulders were too wide to zip the bag around has only himself to blame.

Using the top covers on your hammock (or the sock on mine) will give you a micro-climate inside, similar to when I winter-camped in a bivy tent and experienced inside temperatures 10 degrees or more warmer than outside the tent. You'd definitely have some frost or condensation inside, and it might even "snow" on you a little bit... but in my experience it's worth it.

A lot of these armchair commandos who are so free with advice can talk the talk, but have never actually walked the walk. Not that there aren't experienced people on HF, there sure are... but also a lot of "know it alls" who you find out have only seen overnight lows of 35F, and need a 4" loft UQ to survive below 70 :lol: Anyways, if the condensation really becomes bothersome, you can unzip the covers as much or as little as you want for ventilation. You have synthetic insulation so it won't be the problem it could be with down.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby MikeM » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:34 pm

One interesting concept I'll be trying is a "cold well", basically a slanted trench to create a down draw of cold air that would otherwise pool in the dished out snow area under my tarp enclosure.

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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby CrackMunk » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:41 pm

Some hammock forum said not to use the top covers on my CJH, but that just sounded silly to me

They told me the same thing about putting the poncho liner over my HH. I'm glad I did!

This may sound stupid but if your testing your gear in the "backyard" where you can run to the house if need be. My thought is if your warm or hot at, say... 20* then the set up should work at lower temps. I'm still bring extra gear, If I can fit it in the car its going. safe then sorry.
And on that note. We slept out last night in 20*. Tom (hubby) only made it for about 3hrs cus of his back,neck and hip. if it werent for that we would have gone all night, he's out :( . he's been reduced to a summer "glam" camper. still have to try him in a hammock. I started a Album for gear testing : http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... fdfb44f42b Public link. All comments welcome.
I tried that space blanket idea last night but dont think was out there long enough to see a def.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Jamie » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:58 pm

Thoughts on WCT Activities:

I'm thinking about setting up a satellite camp out across Polliwog Pond, to sleep a night in my hammock out there...snowshoeing across with a pulk of gear after dinner one night...

I'd be up for the potluck supper, and have offered/promised/threatened to serve up some hot beverages...

I'll be bringing my power inverter and TV/DVD setup, along with some zombie movies...

I wouldn't mind taking a trip into Saranac Lake on Saturday to drop stuff off at the animal shelter (they'll be open from 11-4)...we can leave the stuff and take some lonely dogs out for walks (and/or love up some homeless cats)...

A nice hike or snowshoe (depending on the amount of snow on the ground) would be a nice thing to do...

I'm up for other suggestions as well...

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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Rush2112 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:54 pm

I vote for something firearm related. Also, 7PM Saturday is fireworks at the ice palace which I'd like to go see if anyone is interested.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby MikeM » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:09 pm

I'm up for firearms. My AR is still missing an upper, but I'll bring the Mini (AR should be complete in time for the Spring trip).

I'd also like to do some pulking around and maybe a remote camp one night, depending upon how motivated I'm feeling.

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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Bster13 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:19 pm

I am VERY much up for walking the dogs or socializing with the cats.

Festus has the pulks, so up to him if he wants to bring them. I could get away with carrying my load I think. An overnight across the pond would be cool.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Festus Hagen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:49 pm

Bster13 wrote:Festus has the pulks, so up to him if he wants to bring them. I could get away with carrying my load I think. An overnight across the pond would be cool.


They are as bulky as you could imagine. I was kind of thinking of packing a bunch of my stuff into my GI duffel bag and using that to port my stuff over to the island on polliwog for a night.

As for me, all this talk of insulation and stuff has me doing a test hang tonight. Showing a low of 14 overnight, so I'm going to try hanging with my 15 bag, UQ, and hammock sock. Using the same bag on a thick pad, on a cot in the poolhouse had me waking up cold at 20F, so this is a pretty optimistic test... but I ain't scared 'cause I can go inside! Really trying to push the limit to see if the hammock sock provides as much of a boost as I think it will.

Jasper guarding the sock.
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Somewhat showing my layers and of course my Coleman camp pillow.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby SirSharpe » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:10 pm

I don't plan to be over ambitious activity wise, just enough to stay warm and fed. Moving camp is out of the question for me, so is snowshoeing (as I don't own any). Shooting things however, is always plus one in my book (but if we don't, I'm cool with that too).

I do need more info on the charity portion of this event; Tri-lakes humane society, right? You guys just follow the standard donation / "how to help us" guidelines. And, are we definatley going there or will there be a pointman for donations.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Jamie » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:14 pm

SirSharpe wrote:I do need more info on the charity portion of this event; Tri-lakes humane society, right? You guys just follow the standard donation / "how to help us" guidelines. And, are we definatley going there or will there be a pointman for donations.


I think that there's enough interest that we should take a trip to the shelter on Saturday...last year people gave items off of the list and gift cards and even some cash...you don't need to give much, but it would be cool if everyone gave something.

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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby CrackMunk » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:29 pm

I'm up for going to see the puppy & kittys, as long as everyone promises to tape my mouth shut and drag me out as soon as I look like I'm taking 1 home! :lol: my friend Alicia (vet tech) would love to do that to.
I'm in for potluck : 15 alarm chili and 15 bean soup. any left overs could go to communal breakfest-brunch?
have anyone seen "Fido"? good zombie movie, what about "Penguins of Madagascar: I Was a Penguin Zombie" :lol:
moving is out for me. but I will snowshoe with you guys and then come back. want to try to get in as much shoeing as I can.
how about some snowshoe Frisbee? I'll bring an extra pr as Tom is not coming now.
we are up for the fireworks at the castle on Sat night, & maybe some townie fun.
friend Josh (Alicia's hubby) is up for some target shooting. I'll bring my popguns to. could use some ( a lot) more practice.
Rick Bring Jasper! he can keep you warm at night. or I can keep him in my tent cus my snuggle Buddie backed out! LOL I could bring MO, he makes his own dog house! :lol: no, he needs a lot more training. but I do plan on camping with him in the future, going to teach him how to sit in a canoe too.
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heres my head count as of now: coming: Josh, Alicia, Ryan, Maybe;s Scott (my son), Drew (just got new job)
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Festus Hagen » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:57 pm

carolb wrote:Rick Bring Jasper! he can keep you warm at night. or I can keep him in my tent cus my snuggle Buddie backed out!


Wish I could... Papillons don't have an undercoat, he's ok for a while outside but can't handle cold for extended amounts of time. Ours is probably a little better off than some because he's...uhh... stocky.

"Snowshoe frisbee". If I couldn't break an ankle doing that, don't know how I could ;)
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Jamie » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:13 pm

I played snowshoe volleyball at the Winter Carnival about 15 years ago, and am just recovering from it now... :twisted:

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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby CrackMunk » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:12 pm

I have a friend that has one. She's .... thick :lol:
Mo's coat is a little lite for that kind of cold to, I'm getting ready to make him a fleece coat too. I would be more worried about a dogs pads at that temp.Mo won't even were a harness let alone booties! Moses is part Rott. which is from Germany about the same lat.as here (give or take)but He doesn't have a semi- shaggy coat like some of them have.

snowshoe Frisbee sounds fun! then after we all can get a lesson on first-aid :twisted:
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby SirSharpe » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:42 pm

Thanks to to everyone's advise/ encouragement - I have down graded my anxiety level from: "shitting my pants" to " fucking terrified".

Just tried "nesting" my two bags - and they fit together perfectly. I have the 'lesser' bag inside the 'main' bag. Does it make a difference? And what kinda tempature rating does that work out to?

Carol: Glad to see you're bringing the "clan" along! Wouldn't mind borrowing your hubby's snowshoes, if possible. I want to try some out, before spending $120+. I'm very interested, as my BOL is about 10 miles outside of Syracuse, and you never know what the weather will be like when (not if) the Zompocalypse happens!
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Bster13 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:46 pm

I'd put whatever bag has more loft/thickness on the outside since the inner sleeping bag will be crushed a bit.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby CrackMunk » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:05 pm

SirSharpe wrote:Carol: Glad to see you're bringing the "clan" along! Wouldn't mind borrowing your hubby's snowshoes, if possible. I want to try some out, before spending $120+. I'm very interested, as my BOL is about 10 miles outside of Syracuse, and you never know what the weather will be like when (not if) the Zompocalypse happens!

no Prob. I got them for $80 at wallies cus didn't know if we would like it. Just found out I LOVE it. Tom says it good. LOL. Will be getting a better pair if I really do some heavy shoing. but right now they work fine for what I do. your BOL brings up something else I would like to try to do is make a bushcraft snowshoe. has anyone tryed this? got to do some research
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Jamie » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:14 am

carolb wrote:
SirSharpe wrote:Carol: Glad to see you're bringing the "clan" along! Wouldn't mind borrowing your hubby's snowshoes, if possible. I want to try some out, before spending $120+. I'm very interested, as my BOL is about 10 miles outside of Syracuse, and you never know what the weather will be like when (not if) the Zompocalypse happens!

no Prob. I got them for $80 at wallies cus didn't know if we would like it. Just found out I LOVE it. Tom says it good. LOL. Will be getting a better pair if I really do some heavy shoing. but right now they work fine for what I do. your BOL brings up something else I would like to try to do is make a bushcraft snowshoe. has anyone tryed this? got to do some research


I have a pair of snowshoes that I'll be bringing along, that people can borrow...

I think that with some paracord and some balsam branches, we could make hoops of wood with boughs in the middle and tie our feet to them...they wouldn't be pretty or efficient (much like myself), but I bet they'd float you over the top of most of the snow...

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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby MikeM » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:38 am

I've got a loaner pair of snow shoes as well.

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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby Festus Hagen » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:58 am

As for my hammock sock test last night, I woke up at about 3am, nice and warm at 20 degrees F, but violently ill from some kind of stomach bug. I had to come in the house and stay nearby the bathroom for all kind of fun... and spend the rest of my time trying to stay hydrated without tossing that up TOO. I consider the night "operator failure", but I'm encouraged that I woke up warm at 20F where I couldn't stand that temperature on the ground on a thick pad when I tried it with the same SB.

I did have some condensation in the form of ice crystals on the cover... these would fall in small amounts when I'd shift around trying to get comfortable (as the virus body aches were kicking in). Not really bothersome to me and not any more than I'd expect if I used a bugnet in those conditions or even a closely-pitched tarp.

Gross stuff follows... don't read ahead if you don't want to...










Along with vomiting and diarrhea, after I came in the house I found it impossible to maintain a comfortable body temp, even bundled up. Only by using a heated blanket set on "thermonuclear" was I able to eventually get somewhat comfortable and catch a few winks. In no way could I withstand being at the WCT in this condition, and that's just one more scenario you have to be prepared for if you're bringing someone. If I'd been somebody's passenger to the WCT and got this sick, I'd have two likely choices... wake up the driver and have him take me to a motel room, or die on the spot.
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Re: NNY2011WCT! February 4-7

Postby laditek » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:39 am

I'd love to try snow-shoeing at some point. Are any of the extra pairs adjustable enough for a size 8 women's?

Dunno how easy it would be to move camp, but I'm up for trying. Really everything minus food should fit in theLight and I's packs. Hmmm....good use of sled.

Since the shelter also has bunnies on a regular basis I've mobilized my spinning group to keep toilet paper rolls for me. Best bunny toy ever is the rolls stuffed with treat hay and they keep for a long time.
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