We invite everyone in the ZS community to "Nut Up or Shut Up", and join us for our 3rd annual Winter Camping Trip on Polliwogg Pond.



We'll be camping from the 12th to the 14th of February, 2010, which is about as cold as it gets in the Adirondacks (we've had it get down to almost -20, and I've seen it get down into the -30s)...

http://www.sheffspace.com/zs/nny2010wct.html - is a website that I've put up with more information about the trip, but feel free to ask questions and talk about the trip and gear and food and such in this thread...


Jamie

I second the challenge

Heck, a bunch of us are going to be camping this thing in hammocks, so if we can survive this trip in bear burritos there can be no excuse not to come on up to the ADK to make this the best ZSNY event ever!

-Mike

I'd be interested in this if I can find a comfortable -20 or -40 degree bag. Mummy bags just don't have enough leg room for me. If I can find a nice mummy/square bag I'm in.

Besides the main WCT, I'll probably do a "cool-down" trip over to Fahnestock maybe on the weekend of Dec 7.

During January I'll be watching the weather forecasts to see if any weekend looks particularly brutal. The last-minute trip we did in January 09 was a good time with -15F goodness

At the moment, I'm planning on getting there on the 11th, and camping out an extra day and night...it would be awesome if a bunch of people could come, and we could do some fun winter-tastic activities...

I'm hoping that we'll break the -20F barrier this year...maybe -25 or -30...it's certainly possible...all a matter of luck!

Jamie

Sign me up for an 11th arrival date!

-Mike

I'm in for the 11th.

I'm in for as many days as Festus wants to go. Sadly, I have no need to buy new gear this year other than boots. *sniff, sniff*

You know you need a new... er... ultralight... um...
Oh wait, you need to work on your meals man! No more hot chocolate and salmon for you! Go get a hobo to teach you to cook or something. Speaking of cooking skills, I'm debating bringing my Dutch Oven again this year...

Dear TheLight:

There's nothing skilled about what you do with a dutch oven, and I certainly wouldn't call it cooking.

Love,

Famine

I think the term "baking" is what you are looking for, but I understand the confusion. The beauty of baking with a dutch oven is the uniqueness of style. There are so many wonderful products of individual, um..., flavor, that makes dutch oven cooking, ...err baking, a purely individual based talent. I know I take pride in my dutch oven creations, and i'm pretty sure my GF appreciates my culinary skills even if shes not openly accepting of them at first.

bake  /beɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [beyk]
–verb (used with object)
1. to cook by dry heat in an oven or on heated metal or stones.
2. to harden by heat: to bake pottery in a kiln.
3. to dry by, or subject to heat: The sun baked the land.

–verb (used without object) 4. to bake bread, a casserole, etc.
5. to become baked: The cake will bake in about half an hour.
6. to be subjected to heat: The lizard baked on the hot rocks.


cook  /kʊk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kook]
–verb (used with object)
1. to prepare (food) by the use of heat, as by boiling, baking, or roasting.
2. to subject (anything) to the application of heat.
3. Slang. to ruin; spoil.
4. Informal. to falsify, as accounts: to cook the expense figures.

–verb (used without object) 5. to prepare food by the use of heat.
6. (of food) to undergo cooking.

Couldn't you just bring a half-cindered and half-raw pizza with you, and save the time/effort at Polliwog Pond?

Jamie

I have a few questions about the roads and regulations for winter travel in the area.

If there is a heavy snow, how well do they typically clear the roads? Salted and cleared to pavement, or simply leveled to hardpack?

The area is mountainous, do they ever enforce tire chains, winter tires?

Are there any roads that should be avoided or that may be shut down if the weather is bad enough?

I am assuming the rads are generally cleared and travel isn't realy an issue unless we are talking blizzard like conditions, but I wanted to be sure, and not assume too much.

Jamie will chime in with more information, but as a fellow outsider who has done this trip a few times in the winter...

Whether they salt and sand down to pavement or just down to hardpack seems to depend on the road. Main roads they do a pretty nice job on in my experience. Connecting streets, more of the hardpack idea. Those streets don't see the sun from December til May. Garmin sometimes insists on leading you on these little shortcuts which end up costing time because of the condition of the roads. Some of the accumulated snow piles on the sides of the roads can look pretty amazing to someone living down this way who hasn't seen the like for years down here.

I have never known the 'Dacks to enforce any special tires or equipment. On the other hand I'm blissfully happy to have front-drive and Winterforce tires when I go (4wd or awd with snows would obviously be even better, and chains or cables would be a nice option for extreme situations). Traction control and ABS are nice too, they can make a hacky driver seem better than he actually is.

Lots of roads up that way, heck the Northway for that matter, should be avoided when the weather is bad. Look at the bright side, you'll have all your winter bug out gear

Note also that Floodwood Road where we camp is a glorified snowmobile trail in the winter... yet we had drivers in small front-drive cars, running bald all-seasons or sport tires manage pretty well. Be prepared to shovel out a parking space. My Acura is pretty good in the snow but I'm half-convinced that blasting into snow drifts with it and parking in deep snow like I did contributed to premature failure of the ABS sensors...

I'd say, don't be too spooked about the drive, but DO bring your "A" game.

FWIW: I drive an unmodified Honda accord with no special tires and make it just fine.

All season mud and snow capable tire - check.
FWD car with ABS, TCS, and manual transmission - check.
10 Years of winter driving experience in northern Maine, Vermont, and the mountains of Colorado - check.
2" of lowered sport suspension, with about 4" max ground clearance - check.

I'm not too worried though, if conditions become too bad I can always park down the road, and hike in, or arrange a ride to the site itself. That might save on parking space anyways.
I'll be packing light enough to hike, but I do plan on bringing too much food and water to carry.

Carpooling is still an option too, which we can discuss when we get closer to feb.


Speaking of feb. 14th, will Valentines day cards be a mandatory exchange, or purely voluntary?

theLight and I should be good for the 11th baring any unforseen work deadlines

I think I found a -20* bag for this so pending I can find a place to buy it I'll most likely be in for this. I just have to find some decent boots.

The trip is (as always) free, but we do ask that you look at the wishlist from the Tri-Lakes Humane Society, and bring something along which we will give to them from ZSNY.

Wishlist - http://tlhsny.webs.com/wishlist.htm

TLHS Website - http://tlhsny.webs.com

Thanks!

Jamie

Stumbled on a pretty-damn-cheap -30 rated mummy bag. Nebo Sports Wolverine -30 at Overstock

Haven't found any reviews. Seems to be about 7 ounces lighter total weight than my Browning by Slumberjack Kenai -30 bag (which is an oversize bag). Might be worth a shot for someone who isn't sure their sleep system is up to the task, and doesn't plan to backpack with the bag (7 1/2 pounds is a lot to carry).

ETA here's another, rated to -20 but cheaper and lighter than the Nebo Wolverine... Ledge Featherlite -20-degree

Pending a successful gear test at the end of January I plan to attend. I have clearance from my boss I mean GF to miss V-Day, and I also have the time off from work slated on the schedule. I am also game for coming up on the 11th.

The final countdown has begun!
I can't wait for this trip. In my neck of the woods the day time highs have been the lower teens and we have around 3 foot of snow on average (trying to average out the 4-5 foot drifts), so the ADK should be extra cold and snowy.
Just picked up a MSR Whisperlite stove, and I'm planning the menu and may try my hand at something more complicated than the usual MREs and Mt House (pancakes and muffins are at the top of my list for the menu)
Altogether the winter setup is looking good, and I hope to get in at least 2 more test camps before the event.

-Mike

Ok, made some meat rocks chili (had to throw one pan away, but I still have most of it left). Now I guess I'll have to buy a bunch of Mountain House meals, as my various MRE components will probably not survive the cold. At least, not in any way that is useful to me. From the waist up, I'm pretty much set for warm clothing, but I want to get some wool surplus pants a la Russian or Swiss army. I'll try at the Army/Navy store on my next day off. Can't afford to let my junk freeze off. If it does, just leave me out there with my Mosin, one round, and a bottle of Scotch.

Oh, and some more socks (It's an obsession) and better gloves would not go amiss either. I'm hoping to get them all at the surplus store as I'm not exactly loaded.

I also gave my M-Ns some TLC before storing them away as I won't be using them until this trip. Should I bring both, or only one? It occurs to me that I should have a wool Russian officer's trench coat and one of those fuzzy russian hats (Ushanka? sp?) since I'll be firing an M-N in the snow in subzero temps. Oh well. What kind of hardware is everyone bringing? I know there was an M-1 Garand last year and I DEARLY want to try one. I have some .30-06 ammo lying around that my dad accidentally bought instead of .30-30 so I'll feed it myself! Plus you can try my Mosin, of course.

My sleeping bag is rated for -50 with all components. After speaking to a guy who did cold weather training in Alaska or somewhere like that, he told me that the GI trench coat will add considerable warmth to that system. As I already had one from my "Retarded-mall-ninja-meets-Neo" phase in high school, I should be good in that department as well. The other upside is that if no one has any room in their tent and mine proves to be useless, the gore-tex bivvy built in should protect me from the elements. That same GI told me he used this system during a heavy rain and woke up in 1.5 inches of water after a rain storm and was completely dry. I'll just make sure my pine bough bed is extra thick.

Speaking of pine bough beds, do you know how hard it is to find a camp axe? Everywhere I go, you can get an axe or a hatchet. No one around here sells anything in between. I know we sold them at Home Depot when I worked there, but when I went to the local one (not my former place of employment) they didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe I'll see how well my German E-Tool will do at chopping pine boughs.

As for my feet, I have a pair of 10'' waterproof Rocky "Paraboots". They also have a (very) modest insulation of 200 grams Thinsulate. I figure some really thick socks and lots of walking around will keep me protected from the elements. There are several reasons I don't think I'll go crazy with new super-boots: Firstly and most pressing is a matter of money. If I want to afford to go on this trip, I have to make sure I don't spend much money in these coming weeks. Secondly, I have been wearing this brand and model number of boot 365 days a year (I don't wear shorts ) for about five years now, and I'm only on my second pair. Considering what I put them through, I think that's pretty good. I love these boots, and if you ask anyone, they're what define me. You never see me without them. I want to know that I can trust them to protect my feet no matter what situation. I know they're waterproof, crush-proof, and abrasion-resistant. So this will be my cold-cold-cold-weather shakedown for them. The other reason is that I doubt I'd have use for a big ol' pair of galoshes or whatnot after this trip and would therefore be a waste of money even if I found funding. In the shoe department, I've also got some snowshoes I want to screw around with if anyone is game.

One question for anyone who didn't "tl;dr" this post (I apologize for its length): What do you all do to keep your feet warm at night? I usually boil some water before bed and put it in a Nalgene bottle, but I was thinking some really warm booties would be nice. However, I've never heard of anything like that before so I was thinking of getting my crafty girlfriend to sew something together with lots of insulation on the inside and an outer layer made from a space blanket tarp with the reflective layer pointing inward.

Trying to keep this short....not succeeding. I think I'm a little OCD. I'm going to stop this here, but I know there will be more I want to post about later. Just humor me guys. After my last winter camping trip (read: "fiasco), you'd understand why I'm over-thinking this so much.

Derek has a Garand, I forget if he brought it last year or the previous year. Yah she's fun to fire for sure. I'm not sure if I'm bringing anything, depends on space in my car. If I do, it will likely be my Saiga 7.62 and maybe my Mossberg Plinkster.

You wouldn't be the first to use pine boughs at a WCT, but be advised that the ADK Park rangers have a crappy sense of humor about such things. Just so you know.



Rocky makes some badass boots. Need to get some myself.



A lot of (smart) people use down booties which are available at places like EMS (they don't give 'em away though). I tend to use 300 wt Polarfleece socks and/or heavy wool socks. I bought a pair of D-cell powered heated socks. Waste of money, they do nothing. I'd want something more breathable than the reflective blankets, sounds like a sweat factory.



I under-thought my first WCT and froze at night (30 bag layered with a 45 bag, both rectangle bags, yeah I froze). Over-thinking is prolly better.