Mental Illness in a Post Apocalyptic World

[MasterMaker]

Actually(if I'm not mistaken) alcohol does aid in going to sleep in small doses, the flip side to that is that above that dosage, it will keep you awake.
(and as we all know, everybody's tolerance for the stuff is different)

I don't drink but at the discharge party(leaving the military) everybody tried to get me drunk by buying me drinks, they gave up because it was costing them too much money.....

[Tater Raider]

I was talking taking depressants (alcohol, valium, sleep aids, etc.) while depressed generally being ill-advised. And no, it nearly universally (WKRP in Cincinnati comes to mind where Johnny Fever got more sober the more he drank - fun bit) depresses the system, though the "losening up" it allows can create sleep issues in the other direction.

duodecima has a very valid point on sleep patterns too. for this you can use sleep aids to assist in going down, caffiene for waking up, and so on but really you are better off if you can have a set bedtime routine. The routine itself becomes a trigger for, "Oh, it's time to lay down. I guess I'm sleepy after all." Also avoid distractions and stimulating materials during this time. Cut out the caffinated crap 2-3 hours ahead of time. Finally, if you keep your in bed activities limited to sleeping and "hand holding" it helps - no eating, drinking, watching TV in bed. Ya'll prolly heard it a bazillian times but for me this stuff helps.

The other thing I do on caffiene is I'll start the day with a 24oz. dt. soda, then go to coffee. The first pot is 1/3 decaf, the second is 2/3 decaf, and if I have 3 or more I switch to pure decaf so the chemicals can help wake me then slowly bleed out of my system during the day.

[RoneKiln]

There's a lot of awesome posts on this site, and I'd rank this as one of the best. Thanks.

I have mood swings just strong enough to be very annoying to my life. Not enough to mess things up or get diagnised with anything. I found a good B complex vitamin to do a lot to smooth out some of those swings and make my life mor enjoyable. I can really tell the difference when I miss my vitamins for a few days. I once shared this with a good friend that was struggling with bipolar. He found that taking a good B complex vitamin allowed him to cut his med dosage by 40% (his Dr was involved in this process). The reduction in side effects from the lower dosage made it easier for him to stay on his meds and greatly improved his life as well.

Handing out meds in a PAW or SHTF situation may not be a good idea, but keeping a good supply of vitamins may help a few people a little. I don't buy into the whole "all our problems can be fixed by diet/vitamins," but I think diet and vitamin supplements can make a big difference.

There's not a lot of sunshine in my area. It's especially bad in the winter time. Vitamin D is something we keep a good supply of here in case things get bad. It doesn't really fix anything, but it can help you feel better so you can keep on going and fix things.

Just for extra clarification, I am not arguing vitamins will fix mental health issues. But if someone finds their issue is reduced even 5 to 10% by a good supply of them, that 5 to 10% may be the small difference that keeps them functional or manageable.

[Perkidanman]

Good info here. My husband and I are helping out one of his buddies (major bipolar disorder) and we're letting him live with us and including him in our plans until he can get on his feet. He tends to be impulsive and "shuts down" when you disagree with him so having any info on how to deal with issues constructively is great.

[Tater Raider]

Good info here. My husband and I are helping out one of his buddies (major bipolar disorder) and we're letting him live with us and including him in our plans until he can get on his feet. He tends to be impulsive and "shuts down" when you disagree with him so having any info on how to deal with issues constructively is great.

I can't speak for others but when I fold it's because I can't process. The amount of internal stress generated when I try to comprehend something I can't is the trigger. My solution is to have a "safe routine" to do when I'm in a fold - for me it's math (budgeting, aeronautics, probability and statistics, whatever so long as it has an actual practical application for one of my hobbies). Also my hobbies work (model rockets, garden railroading, and my biggest one, preps). The thing for me is doing something, anything, makes my down time shorter.

On the impulsive thing, I totally understand. My method is to run ideas past people to force the issue on, "Is this helpful or could it cause problems?" Sometimes, like with the green hair, it don't hurt no one and is temporary so I go ahead and do it but that's a rare, rare exception (and if I had a do-over I could have used the money wiser but *phft*). Biggest thing on this is the support network and using it because manics and people with bipolar just don't have impulse control so they need an assist on this one.

Please remember, Tater Raider is not a doctor, nurse, or any other type of medical professional. Tater is a guy struggling with this stuff himself. What works for TR may not work for you. Always consult with a professional. Repeated use may cause Male Pattern Baldness. Offer void in Rhode Island. And any other disclaimers you can think of, insert here.

Everyone is a bit different on this stuff so the biggest key is finding what works for your friend, and that not only means what's effective, but what he can stick with.

I hope that's helpful and wish ya'll the best.

Edit: spelling

[Perkidanman]

I can't speak for others but when I fold it's because I can't process. The amount of internal stress generated when I try to comprehend something I can't is the trigger. My solution is to have a "safe routine" to do when I'm in a fold - for me it's math (bidgeting, aeronautics, probability and statistics, whatever so long as it has an actual practical application for one of my hobbies). Also my hobbies work (model rockets, garden railroading, and my biggest one, preps). The thing for me is doing something, anything, makes my down time shorter.

On the impulsive thing, I totally understand. My method is to run ideas past people to force the issue on, "Is this helpful or could it cause problems?" Sometimes, like with the green hair, it don't hurt no one and is temporary so I go ahead and do it but that's a rare, rare exception (and if I had a do-over I could have used the money wiser but *phft*). Biggest thing on this is the support network and using it because manics and people with bipolar just don't have impulse control so they need an assist on this one.

Please remember, Tater Raider is not a doctor, nurse, or any other type of medical professional. Tater is a guy struggling with this stuff himself. What works for TR may not work for you. Always consult with a professional. Repeated use may cause Male Pattern Baldness. Offer void in Rhode Island. And any other disclaimers you can think of, insert here.

Everyone is a bit different on this stuff so the biggest key is finding what works for your friend, and that not only means what's effective, but what he can stick with.

I hope that's helpful and wish ya'll the best.

Again, thanks for the info. I know you're not offering any kind of medical advice but the personal look into it really helps. As for our friend he obesses over relationships, pushing way too fast and way too hard for love until it all falls apart and he retreats. We've constantly told him to slow things down, that if it's worth having it's worth waiting and working for, etc but there's nothing you can say past a certain point that will get through to him once he's set his mind (and there's only so much advice you can give before you start sounding preachy). We've emphasized the importance of communication and that seems to have worked out well so I'm hopeful he can make his current relationship work.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

I don't really have any experience in this but I was reading the Special Forces Medical Handbook and I thought the section on disaster reactions seemed pretty useful advice for a layperson. Now this was the 1982 version of the book, so keep that in mind...

See pages 138-139 of the PDF: http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/milmed/sfhandbook-pt1.pdf

[landser]

ALl the great people of the world are "nuts" or what ever people like to label them. labels are garbage I saw a whole study on people done with adhd that indicated it may actualy be the left over genetic code of hardcore hunters who cant adapt to an agrarian society... and they call it an illness when you have it and an I.Q of 154 which is .025% of the entire population. There are only 9000 people walking around the united states out of 330 million with an I.Q. that high and the ability to process volumes of info that draws blank uncomprehending stares from the masses. Tater you don't have an illness bro you have a challenge accept the challenge. Embrace the challenge. Challenge every one around you. I bet your probably one of the coolest dudes on zombie squad and would be a riot to go camping with. cheers!

[engr-rn]

Anybody thought about making sedatives/sleeping pills and Valium a part of their preps?

Not necessarily for ones own use but to offer someone that is distraught because of a loss or to give someone that that fears they are about to do something ill advised and is to agitated to sleep/let it go.

Basically something that would either calm them or give them the option to try and sleep through it.
I'm not saying that sleeping through it would work but when the alternative would be suicide or increasing anger/hatred leading to.......
Then it would be good to at least have that option to offer.

It may be a bit of a cliche but there is a reason that excessive sleeping is one of the symptoms of depression.

I've actually pondered the fact that our society's dependence on chemicals may end up being the cause of the ZPAW. That said, as a nurse, I've seen the tremendous benefit of IV ativan on the demented/delirious. Sometimes correcting sleep deprivation does a world of good to someone's mental health. Ive had violent, delusional patients become totally appropriate and decent people after getting their first good night's sleep in weeks. If TSHTF and I had access to a hospital or pharmacy the benzo's are the first thing I'd go for..or maybe second after pain meds..


Also..Tater..great of you to bring up this subject..

[engr-rn]

There's a lot of awesome posts on this site, and I'd rank this as one of the best. Thanks.


There's not a lot of sunshine in my area. It's especially bad in the winter time. Vitamin D is something we keep a good supply of here in case things get bad. It doesn't really fix anything, but it can help you feel better so you can keep on going and fix things.

Just for extra clarification, I am not arguing vitamins will fix mental health issues. But if someone finds their issue is reduced even 5 to 10% by a good supply of them, that 5 to 10% may be the small difference that keeps them functional or manageable.

Just to mention..you're right. I have a much easier time getting out of bed since I was diagnosed with vitamin D deficiency and hypothyroidism about a year ago and put on Vitamin D supplements, a multivitamin and synthroid..You don't know what you're missing till you get it replaced.

[RoneKiln]

I've actually pondered the fact that our society's dependence on chemicals may end up being the cause of the ZPAW. That said, as a nurse, I've seen the tremendous benefit of IV ativan on the demented/delirious. Sometimes correcting sleep deprivation does a world of good to someone's mental health. Ive had violent, delusional patients become totally appropriate and decent people after getting their first good night's sleep in weeks. If TSHTF and I had a chance to loot a hospital or pharmacy the benzo's are the first thing I'd go for..or maybe second after pain meds..

Also..Tater..great of you to bring up this subject..

I suspect a large part of my paranoia and anger issues as a youth were related to my insomnia.

[triumph2]

Tater , thank you for having the bravery to posting this ,as it has given me some more insight into this condition as I am currently dealing with this but from the other side as my SO suffers from this as well . So once again thanks.

[Tater Raider]

Also..Tater..great of you to bring up this subject..

Tater , thank you for having the bravery to posting this ,as it has given me some more insight into this condition as I am currently dealing with this but from the other side as my SO suffers from this as well . So once again thanks.

You're welcome.

Remember there are many types of bipolar beyond I and II (17 different types according to a form I looked at many years ago), and it's a little different for everyone so one thing that works for me may help while another may make things worse. Please be patient with her and yourself while you two sort it out and give yourselves a break now and then but keep after it. It can get to where it's mostly managable.

[wee drop o' bush]

In some circumstances OCD & Tourette's cross each others paths.

I have OCD but my impulse control can be poor. Resulting in what appears like reckless/harmful/nonsensical behaviour to an observer.

I watched a documentary called 'John's not Mad' once about Tourette's. The titular John, cannot have heated cooker rings in his flat or he feels the irresistible urge to touch then when red hot. I understand this only too well. Many people do to some degree

Presently I'm taking Meds for OCD. So long as I am compliant I'm ok. Every so often I stop for no good reason, I have no idea why?
But generally I know that I need them to stay rational & I do so.

My GP doesn't prescribe extra Meds for prepping purposes so I don't know how well I'd do in long term circumstances without them. But I do know that when the shit does hit the fan I usually cope well & calmness descends. Which is ironic.

The thing to remember is that in a PAW there may be many hitherto mentally healthy people who now have PTSD or similar. They will not have the benefit of pre-existing self knowledge & coping mechanisms that the currently afflicted do.
So rather than our current mental ill health being 100% a liability in those circumstances...our existing strengths could benefit us & help us help those newly traumatised.

It sounds rather idealistic when I reread that & apologies for seeming trite. I don't mean to be, rather I'm drawing attention to how strong surviving a bad bout of mental illness can make you.

[silentargus]

Fantastic post... though I've never gotten an official diagnosis, I'm also bipolar. It's not as severe as it used to be, but there are still days where I'm completely dysfunctional and others where I'm crawling up the walls if I go five minutes without doing something. Sometimes I can recognize the warning signs of a shift, other times I've gone clear from one end of the spectrum to the other before I knew it was happening. You're absolutely right when you say that it's essential to prepare in advance.

I'm all too well aware that mania can be more dangerous than depression... the two poles will reinforce each other if left unchecked. Severe manic episodes often precede equally severe depressive episodes. It's hard to describe. The more energetic and productive and happy you feel while manic, the worse you know you'll feel later when all that goes away. That effect was what precipitated my close encounter with suicide. At the time I was experiencing severe caregiver burnout from dealing with my terminally ill mother; I had a long depressive stretch, then went manic when I finally got away from the house for a week- I was willing to do anything to prevent the inevitable crash when I went home. I survived by pure dumb luck because a close friend just happened to call me when I was about to put lead through my brain. I posted about that once before in a Personal Experiences thread.

Toughing through it doesn't always work because you need your brain to be functional and rational in order to make the changes that will keep you sane and stable. It is not possible to rationalize or will away a condition that specifically messes around with your ability to reason and your will to live. Bipolar is especially nasty and deceptive in that way- often, mania can encourage the feeling that you can deal with anything... only to have that crushed the moment your mood swings back the other way. Following a particularly bad depressive episode, the manic impulse to do something may lead directly to self-harm because that's what was on your mind while you were depressed and your thoughts can take time to catch up with your emotions. In my case, I gave entirely too much thought to the immediate future (having become unwilling to consider the long-term) and my mania made me act on impulse to prevent the next wave of depression.

Bottom line, medication or no medication, professional therapy or no, the time to develop a management strategy is while you can think clearly and rationally. Figure out what activities will soften a depressive episode and try your best to start in on them before the worst of it hits. Line up productive, engaging things to do while on an upswing so that your mania doesn't take you places you'd rather not go. I don't know what else I can say that hasn't been said better by others already... other than that if you care about someone who suffers from any form of depression and they haven't made their own mental health preps, please consider helping them do so. It's every bit as serious as food and water and dry clothes.

[OldSchool45b]

Tater, your balls must clank when you walk. It sure took a pair of brass ones to go public like that. So, following your example I will step up.

I have PTSD and anxiety. It actually started upon my immediate return from AFG in 04. I didn't seek help until the wife said she wanted a divorce in spring of 06. By then I was on a really bad road. I started but gave it a half hearted effort. this went on and off for the next few years between deployments and trips and schools. I discovered that I did not need the meds while I was deployed. I functioned very well in high stress situations and the meds were actually a negative, sadly this is really common amongst the group of soldiers I worked with. But the issues just compounded. I went on my last mob in 2010 to Cambodia. By this time the wife and I had split and she was hoping I would pull my head out and get right. No such luck. When I came home, I was on the ground 24hrs and at the store shopping when the idea of killing myself came to mind. It was the most rational and logical thing I had ever thought. Really? Out of nowhere too. So needless to say that was a bit of a wake up call.

So needless to say, now 18 months later I am doing some really intensive work at the VA and getting right. But, what happens to me when things go south, or TSHTF? I have tried to get a 90 day supply of meds from the VA, no go. I have discovered I can order a 6mo supply from online, but will I want them during TSHTF? Maybe, maybe not. I do not want anything that will hamper my performance or judgement, make me hesitate. Maybe I will reduce the dose to A) stretch them out as long as possible in case things don't normalize quickly, or B) maybe I will stop taking them during the high stress situation. My family knows my situation and about my illness, they know my warning signs and triggers. But that said, I seem to really switch on during high stress situations. I do not want to do anything that would jeopardize my family in any way. I have excellent decision making and analytical capacity during times of high stress. I don't want the meds, or lack of to compromise my family or myself. So I don't know what I will do.

[Tater Raider]

Thanks for sharing, OldSchool. Yeah, the VA's medicine policy is strict, so overage will have to be either ordered online or through shorting yourself to stretch - something I don't recommend but have done. While that sound hypocritical, the thing is I sometimes forget to take my meds for a day or 2, but I can reorder meds the day I get them and they will ship when due. That adds up. Of course if you forget to order them you end up taking your prep stash.... Just make sure to keep the meds in accordance with instructions and rotate those guys. If something is expired check with a pharmacist before tossing on if that expiration actually means anything.

As far as what to do in a disaster, unless you have widespread societal collapse it's a temporary, likely regional thing. Hang tough, take the meds, and ride it out - this too shall pass. It might pass like a kidney stone but it'll pass. Even if it's on a Katrina level you should be alright if you can get out of the area as far as meds go. Be sure to change your address.

ZPAW... I'll have to cut back on dosage when supplies begin to run low and keep an eye out for what's available. Staying in tune with what's going on will help and so will keeping busy. Even so I expect issues in the event I run out. There are some herbal things that can help some with different symptoms (St. Johns Wart for depression comes to mind) but if you go that route you have to treat it like it's a new med. And before people tell me, "But it's natural," I'd like to point out that so is Poison Ivy.

There are things I can do something about and things I can do nothing about. When I run into the stuff I can do nothing about I embrace the fact then move along - I used to stress it but if there's nothing I can do then there's nothing I can do so no need to blow a gasket on it. Properly applied that can be a powerful tool in the arsenal.

This is where those of us that hate society must be the ones to help rebuild it - the faster it gets back up and running on some level the better off we will be.

On a more personal note, it's taken me 8 years of intense work to get to where I am today, where I can function with some monitoring of my condition by pros. Yes, I'm still a loudmouthed jerk that can be funny or irritating (sometimes both at once) but the sucicide issue is in the past, plans are laid out for the future, and I'm living in the now. Even with the disability issue for me I can look at me and go, "See, there's hope for you folk going through something like this. Keep after it."

Good luck, OldSchool.

[Pilsung]

Tater, I salute your courage in posting so openly and honestly about a much-stigmatized subject that is a huge issue in our stressful modern life, and could be monstrous in a SHTF/PAW scenario. To the other posters who responded with so much insight, compassion and relevant information, you guys (and ladies) are why I frequent these forums. "Love thy neighbor" isn't just a Biblical commandment; it's going to be an imperative for rebuilding societal fabric if a doomsday scenario plays out.

I recall reading about an eminent Russian psychiatrist who volunteered to work in Chechnya during the conflict there, and said that danger is the best anti-depressant. I hope to never have to test the validity of that statement. Anxiety has been one of my "issues" and meds only seemed to exacerbate the problem. Found substantial allievation through a holistic approach that centered on spiritual renewal - not sure what I can say on that subject in here, but reading Psalms and the wisdom of the ancients in Proverbs really helped - as well as diet, exercise, and trying to focus on the positive, and on others. A mineral a friend sent me also caused a noticeable improvement as well, which has the benefit of being something I can stock up on with no prescriptions needed (and no undesireable side effects).

http://www.marsvenus.com/store/john-gra ... ement.html

Dr. John Gray (author of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus") did an EXCELLENT series of radio interivews on the subject of big pharma and mental illness that can be heard on YouTube.

[Pilsung]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgcB9OaBqVI

Worth a listen (Dr. John Gray on causes and effects of pychologicial illnesses, the often destructive effect of meds, and alternate remedies).

[Tank Woman]

I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this excellent thread.
My own personal experience is: I am OCD/PTSD. I was diagnosed in the mid 80's when I decided to go to a local counseling program geared towards adult children of alcoholics. I think it was a pretty standard group counseling type program, and it did help quite a bit. Just knowing that many many MANY other people had similar things going on in their life was very freeing to me.
Another thing I have decided about myself is that my "problem" can also be one of my greatest assets. My tendency to tweak out on things really can be a useful tool. I love to organize things and actually do it as a leisure activity. When we switched over to paperless everything, I was in hog heaven for months! And my project for this week has been to sort and organize our pantry and storage items.
So my point is, at least in my experience, sometimes the things that we have to deal with in our heads can be turned around to actually help us.

[Tater Raider]

Update: PTSD got triggered hard yesterday and I'm riding it out. Since the situation is temporary (the brain chemistry will adjust over time) and I'm keeping myself insanely busy atm (pun not intended but still funny to me) I'll be alright.

I think that's a key thing to remember too: if you are agressively managing your particular mental issues it puts you ahead of the game. Sure I might stumble and end up making an emergency appointment but the warning signs aren't there (yet?) but I'm doing something that has a history of helping so odds are I'll be perfectly fine in a few days. In the meantime, life goes on and time heals all wounds. Leaves some nasty scars but it heal a lot of stuff if you allow it to.

Why the update? Because the PTSD is unusual for me to have to deal with aggressively, to demonstrate it can be done, and to show it works for me. That's the key, "for me." One man's poison is another's cure is nothing more than plain truth when dealing with mental issues.

[TripleThreat]

Good luck to all

[bigmattdaddywack]

123456

[Tater Raider]

Everytime I get thanks I feel so humbled... you are all most welcome and while difficult I have enjoyed doing this.

PTSD update: got through it no issues, just took 3 days. Yeah, nothing is quick with this stuff.

Stress is up as I prepare for a vacation/mock bug-out so I'm having to babysit myself, twice in the past 2 weeks I've had to really go after issues and once I had to walk away from everything for the day. There is a certain amount of stress I work well with, anything below that and the brain chemestry tends to go a tad wonky while too much and after a while I end up "folding" as described earlier in the thread. I caught the early signs of a fold which made me take a break from meatworld and did stuff related to nothing - escapism in the form of movies, documentaries, etc. When overwhelmed I made a list of what needed doing ten buckled down and started knocking the list out.

Why this applies to coping with mental illness ZPAW: different strategies work for different things. Those different things may look identical from the outside - they aren't. If capable, the person with the issues is the final authority in what is most effective. If not capable, ask the person with issues in a calm, supportive manner how they are feeling then what is causing that specific feeling before coming up with a strategy to cope with it.