Question of Curiosity - Tactical House Plans?

[crypto]

For good solid defensible home layouts, look no further than Spanish Mission houses in the southwest style from the 1700/1800s.

They have a high adobe and stone wall with firing ports in them, surrounding a central courtyard. They were designed to be small fortresses, little defensible spaces.

ETA: Good luck getting zoning approval for that if you live outside of the southwest though

[JTNieman]

I want to know who's gonna man the battlements/towers/portcullis.

I mean, when I get home, I have shit I wanna do, which doesn't include guard duty and patrolling the perimeter

I think you should stick with an economical house plan using standard comfort and style features you like, and just secure the outside of the house, including doors, windows, lighting, etc etc...

Unless you plan on hiring guards, I guess.

[........]

Basically similar to a safe room, only instead of one room, it was all the bedrooms & one of the baths.

While it was called a safe zone one of the links above discussed the theory. Keeping the kids rooms near yours as opposed to the opposite side of the house and being off to lock this area.

In my L.A. home every room was blanketed by heat based motion sensors hooked up to a 100 decibel horn you could hear for blocks and a call center.

Has anyone given thought to a house that's easisy defensible from an intruder inside? Things like stairways upstairs, bedroom locactions (floors), proximity to safe rooms, etc. If someone does break in, where would it be optimum to make a stand? What design would best accomodate this?

I used to work for law enforcement, spoke to officers, deputies, SWAT and a small town sheriff. Every one of them told me to buckle down in the bedroom, call the police and wait. Of course that may mean moving to the kids rooms and buckling down but same theory. That said I did start the string

Safe room in a closet is popular. Second floor bedrooms less accessible.

ETA: Specifically, I'm looking at the pictures blacksmith posted of the house in the center of an open hill, and suizen's monolithic dome, open ceiling pic, which to me would seem effective at confronting an intruder who's broken in the front door.

I've seen a few:
The tower seems easy, high vantage point, can see 360 degrees, always have the high ground.

I found a very interesting plan that was four levels and build around a spiraling staircase. I liked it because it was unique but its easy to see how working your way up four stories of spiraling stairs that are open and visible from the upper levels would put you at a disadvantage.

Regarding court yards the ones I like have the garage and guest house along the street so they don't look overly fenced. Here are two artists renditions and one set of flour plans.

[crypto]

Here's a simpler plan than trying to engineer your own compound:

Find a 2-story city house made out of brick, with a flat roof, like this:



For one low low price you can have:

Bulletproof construction. 3 layers of masonry brick will eat up gunfire all day long, and if it's not belt-fed, it's not chewing through.

Clear sight lines from the second story to everywhere you want to see.

Flat roof providing overwatch. All 4 sides have raised battlements, you have a very defensible structure.

The ability to grow food on the roof. Lots of people have gardens on rooftops, as well as solar panels and rain catchers.

Theres a reason will smith was holed up in a brownstone in I Am Legend, and not in a condo

[crypto]

LOL, those renderings are for million-dollar homes. If you have that kind of cash, more power to you. Hire round the clock uniformed security while you're at it.

[........]

I want to know who's gonna man the battlements/towers/portcullis.

Here's a simpler plan than trying to engineer your own compound:

And that's the thing... who wants to do that? Guard or compound? Even with the court yard options you might be on one side of the house but not know what's happening on the other side. Personally I like that little mini tower, not for sitting up there with a sniper rifle waiting for hordes of the living dead in some time of last stand fantasy, but because it gives you views. Set that on a beautiful lake lot and I could sit up there all day enjoying nature.

[........]

LOL, those renderings are for million-dollar homes. If you have that kind of cash, more power to you. Hire round the clock uniformed security while you're at it.

Well that's the problem with a court yard... kinda hard to do with 1,000 sq feet or less. The top one I believe is 2,000 sq feet though. According to http://www.home-cost.com the average cost to build in Minnesota is $98.51 and the average home is 2250 sq feet so right off the bat you're below the average and not looking at a million dollar home. $98.51 x 2250 = $221,000.

[crypto]

That average construction figure is for new wood frame construction and a multistory box structure, not a sprawling compound made from steel and masonry like in the drawings. Unless you're planning on moving into a completely rural setting where land is truly cheap, the acre lot that house sits on will be $200K by itself, plus the considerable cost of constructing a novel custom-architected house.

You're smoking weed if you think you can build that thing for $200K. The fuckin inground pool by itself is 30-40K.

[gravediggerfour]

quick crete /mud and broken glass on top of courtyard walls is always a way to spot a classy neighborhood.

[crypto]

Also, that much spanish tile on the roof is going to be 30-40K by itself. Even a small house runs $25K for a new tile roof.

[ei8htx]

A quick search for land in MN shows there's plenty of acres for sale at around 20k not terribly far from Minneapolis.

$98.51/sq ft may not include all the costs, but it does give a ball park figure to work from. Can you really go from a 200k estimate to 1 million?

I didn't see any mention of steel or extensive masonry in those floorplans.

An inground pool costs about $50/sq ft, the picture shows one roughly 20x15, which comes to $15,000.

Once all the costs are figured in, it would probably go well over 200k, but not anywhere near 1M.

Once thing is for sure, their are a lot of guys with sensitive egos on the internet.

[........]

not a sprawling compound made from steel and masonry like in the drawings.

Those are drawings. I never said steel and masonry and there is nothing to say you can not do a wood frame.

the acre lot that house sits on will be $200K by itself

A quick search for land in MN shows there's plenty of acres for sale at around 20k not terribly far from Minneapolis.

Thank you ei8htx! Crypto remember that land prices can very widley dependent upon where you live. I found 75 acres of wooded land in rural northern minnesota along a river for $80,000. A suburb plot can set you back 20-30 k, less in a distressed area, more in an ideal area. Compare that to L.A., the place I was staying was put on the market for $800,000 and people thought about buying it just for the lot, leveling the 5,000 sq foot house on it, and rebuilding from scratch. I.E. the 20,000 sq foot lot was worth $800,000. So 20,000 sq feet in Los Angeles costs ten times what 75 acres costs in Northern Minnesota.

You're smoking weed if you think you can build that thing for $200K. The fuckin inground pool by itself is 30-40K.

Excavation is expensive. Adding a basement would dramatically add to the price of this, your tile roof yes, but no where di any one say you have to use that particular plan. We're discussing options and generalities. You could make the roof flat and grow your garden or slanted with standard shingles.

$98.51/sq ft may not include all the costs, but it does give a ball park figure to work from. Can you really go from a 200k estimate to 1 million?

You can build new housing for under $100 per square foot. You can build new housing for over $200 per square foot. Exotic woods, marble counter tops from Italy, the grade of materials used and differences in the cost of labor between regions can all swing the price of construction radically.

[crypto]

I sort of assumed that using masonry was a prerequisite for any defensible structure. Whats the point of building a big house if someone can just magdump through the living room wall and kill everyone?

[........]

An officer friend of mine once said "it doesn't matter where you live but how you live and who you run with." So you're smoking weed, or dealing weed, if your concern is someone magdumping blindly through the living room wall. Either parnoid or buying too much into sensationalist news media.

[crypto]

Seriously? That makes about as much sense as me saying

"No one needs a defensible compound except for cartel bosses and crime lords"

And yet here you are talking about building one. In a thread YOU STARTED.

On a web site dedicated to preparing for the coming zombie apocalypse, I might add.


ETA: I live in Saint Louis, stray bullets aren't so uncommon around here. I won't live in a house without brick walls. If you move to rural minnesota, you can probably just skip the whole defensible aspect, right?

Unless you're a mob boss, or paranoid, right?

[shrapnel]

Yeah that's nice. Please take the bickering to PM.

[Paladin1]

I have been tweaking the plans for my next house for several years now. I'm going to build an earth sheltered home.

Not only is it energy efficient, but bullet proof from every side but one, and of course, I've planned defense for that one side.

The interior design I have is a Great Hall kind of center section that has the bedrooms, etc. off to either side. If an intruder got in they would have to run a gauntlet to get to the back for the house where the bedrooms and safe room are.

The cost is comparable to a stick built house and less than a solid brick house.

http://www.earthshelteredhome.com/

[........]

Yeah that's nice. Please take the bickering to PM.

Noted: Any bickering will be done in PM, thank you.

Back on topic

And yet here you are talking about building one. In a thread YOU STARTED

Let me clarify. What I said was: "Designing your home to defend against intruders, home invasion and all the good other stuff. It discussed Coopers Corners, a simplified version of the theory behind star forts ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_fort ) and the use of Roman or Mexican style court yard housing. Has any one read any thing on this? Any one know what I'm talking about?"

So my question of curiosity was specifically if any one actually knew of houses being built with Coopers Corners. A larger discussion would be defending against intruders or home invasion. I do not agree with your beleif that masonry is needed because bullets can pass through masonry, if someone is going to try to shoot me they are going to walk up to the window and shoot through rather than shooting blindly through the living room wall, and I beleive this type of attack his highly unlikely. What might happen is a home burglary, which needs to be addressed in deterence, defense and safety/safe zone/panic room. The other possibility is a home invasion which deserves its own advice.

I live in Saint Louis, stray bullets aren't so uncommon around here.

And I lived in Minneapolis in the shadows of a high crime housing project, rural Minnesota, a great area of L.A. and spent far too much time in South Central L.A.. I understand the concerns with crime although oddly enough I never had any thing stolen in the projects but did at that $800,000 house, never had a car stolen in South Central but did in Rural Minnesota. I think addressing things in priority is smart. What is the most likely occurence, fix it first, then whats the second most, fix it second or with the first, and so fourth. If stray bullets are a concern for you and assuming your Saint Louis home is a small urban lot thats relatively shielded on two or three sides and that stray bullets are coming from the front then that court yard design might be ideal. Use a brick face while the rest is wood frame work, and the guest house and garage are both shielding the living space at the rear of the lot.

[........]

I have been tweaking the plans for my next house for several years now. I'm going to build an earth sheltered home.

Speaking of defense, I don't like the idea of being blind on three sides and a nice uphill walk to the roof top.

As for fairly standard stuff, you don't have any concerns with water?

[ei8htx]

I have been tweaking the plans for my next house for several years now. I'm going to build an earth sheltered home.

Not only is it energy efficient, but bullet proof from every side but one, and of course, I've planned defense for that one side.

The interior design I have is a Great Hall kind of center section that has the bedrooms, etc. off to either side. If an intruder got in they would have to run a gauntlet to get to the back for the house where the bedrooms and safe room are.

The cost is comparable to a stick built house and less than a solid brick house.

http://www.earthshelteredhome.com/

That sounds like a very interesting layout for an earthship. Do you have a floor plan, or even maybe a crude ms paint drawing?

I've always been interested in them, and would like to see what others are doing with them architectually. They do have the built in convenience of safety in them.

ETA:

As for fairly standard stuff, you don't have any concerns with water?

Water isn't really much of a concern with an earthship, as it's use is integrated all throughout the design from rain collection to grey water to black water. I imagine it's even less of a concern in Ohio as opposed to out in the desert, where you more commonly see earthships.

[........]

Water isn't really much of a concern with an earthship, as it's use is integrated all throughout the design from rain collection to grey water to black water. I imagine it's even less of a concern in Ohio as opposed to out in the desert, where you more commonly see earthships.

I suppose it does depend upon where you live. In Minnesota I've only seen a few and I've heard there can be water problems, both from leaking along the back side and because the weight of water logged soil can triple (?) and so the roofs can have problems.

[NX02GT]

http://www.earthshelteredhome.com/

The prices for anything outside of 40 miles from them made me cringe ("$300 a day plus all expenses plus $.125 a mile"), and number 23 on their 25 reasons to have one made me LOL:
Protection From Nuclear Fallout, Earth and concrete are two of the most efficient radiation shields available to the general public.

[ei8htx]

I suppose it does depend upon where you live. In Minnesota I've only seen a few and I've heard there can be water problems, both from leaking along the back side and because the weight of water logged soil can triple (?) and so the roofs can have problems.

I thought you were referring to drinking water. What you mentioned very well could be a problem. Over excavating the area and back filling with peastone/loose rock for drainage I would guess would be very important, as well as any other means.

[........]

Build it into a hill (the way I've seen it) and all the water running down that hill comes over the top, possibly erodes and all the water that penetrates the surfaces runs into your rear wall, collects and seeps in. Of course the homes I've heard of having this problem were under ground earth bermed etc but they were built in the 70s. Modern water sealing may prevent the problem but I'm of the mind set that water works its way in eventually.