The BOB is dead!

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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The BOB is dead!

Post by Deschain » Fri May 21, 2010 7:29 pm

So, I've been looking over things, thinking. Sigboy's Bugging Out is NOT Going to War! thread in particular spurred this line of thought.

What purpose does the BOB fill?

As it stands, they are almost universally geared towards a 2-4 day walk out of a danger zone. Now, there's a couple of problems with this. Firstly, the whole walking issue. Why don't people expect to be able to use their vehicles? And I mean vehicles. Even if you drive to the dock and load down a Zodiac or rowboat or whatever to get out of town, aren't you...not walking? Far and away the large majority of disasters do not involve you walking out of the area of impact. Either driving out or sheltering in place are the norm. Yes, I can appreciate the ability to make your supplies useful if, in some terrible, world-ending disaster you are forced to walk to your bug out location.

Which brings up a point- who reasonably expects that a bug-out location 2-4 days of walking from your affected domicile is secure in any way from either other refugees or the disaster itself? Do most people have an actual BoL?

Why isn't there more focus on making your supplies more easily vehicle-borne, instead of using a shove to get your MREs and cans of spam into the back of your pickup? Aren't you going to take more than your bags with you when you leave your homes?

The BoB is a flawed concept, in my opinion. No, I am not saying we should not prepare. No, I am not giving up the prepper lifesyle or suggesting we all hit up the local Wal-Mart. My question is...why haven't we moved onto a different standard-issue idea? Why are we fixated on the middleweight backpack o'goods?

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by TheGunslinger » Fri May 21, 2010 7:40 pm

Long live the BoB!

In any long term disaster, fuel is going to be non-existent. That means you may well be stuck with whatever it is you have on you. Hopefully people have some prepped, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily have enough to get out of dodge.

Doubly so, if you've ever seen what a highway looks like when people are attempting to flee anything. If for some reason you get caught out and have to try and drive out in the middle of a storm, then you would probably be looking at a long wait.

The BoB serves a purpose - it's a man-packable amount of food and water that will let you survive for 3 or so days. Hopefully by which time you can reach some sort of safety, or the disaster has passed.

It's not an INCH bag, which is what some of the BoB are starting to look like. To my mind, filling your vehicle with your worldly goods and heading out is more of an INCH idea than just a BoB.

A BoB implies that you are going to be able to come back home again. An INCH bag doesn't.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by raven1093 » Fri May 21, 2010 7:44 pm

Hmmmmm.... you do have a good point. In most disasters you would most likely drive to your BOL not walk.In my opinion it would make more sence to prep your vehicle. But a BOB would still be advised,in any large evac it's stand still trafic and you may be forced to leave your vehicle....and like previosly mentioned gas may become an issue....
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by Chris@MTCT » Fri May 21, 2010 7:49 pm

I just don't like Canadians..
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by Deschain » Fri May 21, 2010 7:51 pm

TheGunslinger wrote:Long live the BoB!

In any long term disaster, fuel is going to be non-existent. That means you may well be stuck with whatever it is you have on you. Hopefully people have some prepped, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily have enough to get out of dodge.

Alright. So even if yu get caught in traffic, how far to you suppose you'll get on foot with less supplies in the middle of a long term disaster?

Doubly so, if you've ever seen what a highway looks like when people are attempting to flee anything. If for some reason you get caught out and have to try and drive out in the middle of a storm, then you would probably be looking at a long wait.

Waiting is probably better than walking in the rain making almost no progress, yes?

The BoB serves a purpose - it's a man-packable amount of food and water that will let you survive for 3 or so days. Hopefully by which time you can reach some sort of safety, or the disaster has passed.

It's not an INCH bag, which is what some of the BoB are starting to look like. To my mind, filling your vehicle with your worldly goods and heading out is more of an INCH idea than just a BoB.

A BoB implies that you are going to be able to come back home again. An INCH bag doesn't.

What happens if, like Katrina, it takes months to get home again? Three days of walking leaves you exposed to both the elements and the less friendly elements of humanity. Why walk when you can drive?
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by Deschain » Fri May 21, 2010 7:53 pm

raven1093 wrote:Hmmmmm.... you do have a good point. In most disasters you would most likely drive to your BOL not walk.In my opinion it would make more sence to prep your vehicle. But a BOB would still be advised,in any large evac it's stand still trafic and you may be forced to leave your vehicle....and like previosly mentioned gas may become an issue....
Why not prep some gas? Why would you abbandon your vehicle, if it is prepped for along-term outing?

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by raven1093 » Fri May 21, 2010 8:01 pm

well i'm just saying you could have 100 gallons of gas preped, but if your vehicle is not an off road one and your in a traffic jam you might have to leave your vehicle...If say the zombies start running down the high way...(or other threat is coming)you have to leave or die...
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by SugarMaple » Fri May 21, 2010 8:02 pm

I think the BOB still has it's place. In my plan, that place is to bridge any gap between my car and my BOL. If I can stay in my apartment, I will. If I can't, I'll load extra supplies into the car (some supplies live in the car but most don't) and head out of town. If I get to a point where I can't drive, I'll grab my BOB and walk.

I do agree that it's smart to have your in-home preps packaged in such a way that they could quickly and easily be thrown into a vehicle.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by KC44 » Fri May 21, 2010 8:03 pm

A BOB is a pack/suitcase/box/etc that allows you to pack enough gear in it so your family can stay alive for the first 72 hours of an emergency or disaster. My BOB is actually the rear end of my Honda minivan and there will be enough stuff back there so that my loved ones (4 or 5 or 6) can bug out of a bad situation and be able to live until help arrives or until we have escaped the problem. A BOB will never die.

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by Mister Dark » Fri May 21, 2010 8:16 pm

Well, yea. A regular BOB isn't going to be the be-all and end-all. But I dont think that everyone is depending on JUST a BoB. I mean, think about it; We (hopefully) all have bug-in preps, right? Cases of MRE's, buckets of flour and rice, barrels full of water? We (hopefully) all have a Bug-out bag, right? A bag full of emergency supplies that is man-portable capable of lasting several days. Heck, almost everyone (hopefully) has EDC bags, INCH bags, BOATS, whatever. You know what this means, right? WE NEED A NEW ACRONYM!


I already have a box of stuff that I will throw in the truck if given enough time and I think I can get out of town in my vehicle. (ok, ok, it is really just a box of leftover stuff, but hey) It has blankets, foodstuffs, water, and also several changes of clothes, extra ammo, some tools, etc and so forth. I was considering it my vehicle only INCH kit, or maybe a car BOB. Yeaaaa, why not VBOB? Vehicular Bug Out Bag/Box/Barrel/whatever.

A vehicle-packable kit that has supplies for an extended emergency. I like this idea, and I am proud to stand behind it.

Long Live the VBOB!

Edit to add a short list of stuff I already have in my VBOB (I just didnt know what to call it, before!)

40 Gal gas (well, sitting next to the bin, not actually in it)
4 milsurp wool blankets
2 big blue tarps
Sterno stove and 8 cans fuel
Fairly big FAK
Camp Axe
e-tool
100' heavy duty rope, with ascender, D rings and carabiners attached
20-ish Mountain House meals
3/4 box of Mainstay rations (I think 6 or 7 9600 cal packs)
2 cases water
250 rounds 12ga, buck and birdshot
1000 rounds .22LR
1000 rounds 9mm

prolly more stuff, I'll have to look later.

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by TheGunslinger » Fri May 21, 2010 8:27 pm

Deschain wrote:
Alright. So even if yu get caught in traffic, how far to you suppose you'll get on foot with less supplies in the middle of a long term disaster?

If your car is finished and there is somewhere to head for? Further than sitting in your car!

Waiting is probably better than walking in the rain making almost no progress, yes?

Maybe? It depends on the situation. Sitting in a car isn't going to find you food, fuel or help?

What happens if, like Katrina, it takes months to get home again? Three days of walking leaves you exposed to both the elements and the less friendly elements of humanity. Why walk when you can drive?
[/quote]

Then you take an INCH bag, not a BoB? It's only meant to be a short term solution to a short term problem. It's not meant to be the be all and end all - it's meant to get you out of dodge.

I think the original purpose of the bag has been lost. It's not meant for you to run away and live off the land in it, that's an INCH bag's purpose. It's more like something that you can have already done so you can leave quickly.

Say you are looking to flee civil disturbance, large fire or something like that. You might well be able to drive away from those things, but if you can't, you still have a man-packable 3 day survival kit that affords you limited mobility, but still contains enough kit for someone with some know how to survive longer.

Yes, you can always carry more stuff in your car. I don't think that's open to debate. But your car isn't always accessible, your BoB should be.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by DannusMaximus » Fri May 21, 2010 8:34 pm

Deschain wrote: Why don't people expect to be able to use their vehicles?
A potential natural disaster in my AO is an earthquake. A BAD earthquake. Of the magnitude that splits highways in half, drops every major bridge over the (many) creeks and rivers in the area, and causes all major roads to be clogged with vehicles that have been stopped in their tracks due to said disaster.

Since earthquakes are regional in nature, my BOL, which is about 130 miles away, will likely be unaffected. I would obviously still try to bug in if my house and/or neighborhood were still standing, but faced with 4 - 6 weeks of depending on the National Guard for supplies ('cause all my awesome preps are in a rubble pile), shitting in a ditch and sucking rainwater out of puddles, I think scabbing together a BOB and hoofing it 25 miles away so family can pick me up would seem a reasonable idea. YMMV.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by EricinVirginia » Fri May 21, 2010 8:41 pm

What if you're driving and you need to ditch your carefully loaded vehicle? Your BOB is your fallback plan.

I recently hooked up with a friend, who will probably be joining ZS in a bit, and we'll be hitting their location as our new BOL #1. Walking it'd be a 2 day trek. I think I'd be able to drive there. At some point, in your disaster scenario, BOL#1 gets compromised and I'd want the flexibility of immediately loading out or evacuating in case of emergency... like if BOL #1 were being ransacked or searched.

If we're not bugging out, my BOB would be very useful for recon and resupply around my BIL. It'd just be a lot more mission specific.

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by KYZHunters » Fri May 21, 2010 8:42 pm

Deschain,
I was (in order) amused, bemused, ruffled, perturbed and finally dismayed by the dick bumping contest in Sigboy's post; I think I stopped reading about page 6. Couldn't get it off my mind though, so I posted this thread http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... =6&t=64231" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which is the same question you are asking in part, do we have BoLs. Right now, 48 percent of those who responded say they are bugging in, which is what I intend to do. In another recent thread a guy was kind of beaten down for suggesting the most responsible prep was own/co-owning land for a BoL, and ideally living on it. It quickly ended up off topic without people really addressing the question.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by BigDaddyTX » Fri May 21, 2010 9:03 pm

Admittedly I have back problems, but that's how I prepare. I have a BoT, a bug out trunk. I've got food, a case of bottled water, my BoB such as it is, tools, etc. I've been meaning to reorganize it and take some pics as I find the concept much more realistic. I have backpacks in the trunk to move things into assuming I have to leave the car. I also keep ~8 gallons of gas in the garage at any given time, and I'm good about not letting my car get under 1/2 a tank, so I'd have a full tank of gas to leave with. Minimal gas prep gets me a long way in this case.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by yourkiller3 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:04 pm

and the bob lives on!!!
many natural disasters can severely impede ability to use a vehicle for instance
tornado-see that house fully in tact in the middle of that bridge right between you and you bol? looks like those giant tires on your car ain't goin straight up an f'in wall so grats ur f'ed
earthquake-ok, you're driving down the highway to your bol 'cuz the news says their is a chance of 'em right? now, imagine the road opens up in front of you and half your car is hanging over the edge. you open the rear hatch and jump out the back way. but oh, wait ALL my stuff is in the car that just fell over the edge and down about 20 yards! once more gratz, ur f'ed
blizzard-driving along listening to some nice ole timey country and it starts snowing a bit, oh well.
now, it picks up, it's getting thicker. you cant even see the windshield anymore. options? a) wait for da gov'ment. b) walk. oh, but wait all your stuff is in that huga a' chest in the trunk. damn should'a brought your BOB 'cuz now, ur f'ed

the BOB was not intended to 'save' your life it was intended to 'PROLONG' it for that extra 72 hours or so until you can reach your bol or your first waystation(which of course you put within a 72 hour hike ready for whatever your most likely threat is in your AO)

also any more pessimistic you're f'ed theories needed just ask i have plenty :D
just my $0.02 though so YMMV
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by Ridgeback06 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:34 pm

I don't think the BOB is dead. It's nice to think that we will be able to drive where we need to go...ever counted the overpasses between you and your destination? The choke points that LEO/NG can use for "checkpoints"? Ever considered the number of folks that will be out between you and your destination? Think these questions support the death of the BOB?

So, in my circumstance my goal; MY goal...we each need to determine what we want to accomplish; is to get home from work to my disabled wife. That is 19 miles south bound on H101. In an earthquake scenario that is 10 overpasses plus other chokepoints. If I get to the side street path home I still have to cross the freeway from West to East somehow in my truck plus get through some undesirable 'hoods. Say the scenario is an EMP attack? My truck probably won't work. Some kind of attack on the large cities nearby? OK, I might be ok to drive...we are all in different areas. Think about your disasters and how those will effect your ability travel where you need to go.

Point is...the BOB needs to be a tool in the toolbox. My truck has supplies in it that will keep me ok for three days. It also has a BOB with three days worth of needed stuff in it to get me home on foot. My next step in the plan is to keep my mountain bike in the truck so I don't have to walk!

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by whisk.e.rebellion » Fri May 21, 2010 9:38 pm

I don't know many Canadian (or other national) travel holidays, but think of traffic in the States on Labor Day or Memorial day. In the event of a zombie outbreak, take the traffic from either of those weekends and cube it. Where I live, there are two highways out of town. At 5pm on any given weekday, there's enough traffic to delay things 30 minutes. If SHTF, I'm not going to be able to drive out of town.

Hiking with a BOB is far from ideal, but it's a good (and easy) "worst case scenario" to prepare for. Even if you can drive out of town, if you have a BOB, you have at least three extra day of supplies when you arrive at your destination.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by raptor » Fri May 21, 2010 9:43 pm

I think A BOB is very misunderstood. A BOB is a tool and like all other tools it is appropriate for certain tasks and inappropriate for other tasks. It is not a substitute for a plan, a risk assessment, BOL, BIL or BOV. It should be tailored to your individual circumstances and needs, but it is unlikely to able to hold everything you will ever need.

A BOB (back pack, suit case, or tactical wheel barrel) is not and cannot take the place of any of the above. It is not designed to be your sole source of preparation. It is a tool and should be one of many tools in your toolbox, not the only tool.

From a personal perspective I gear my BOB around a vehicle evacuation. My key risk for a bug out is a hurricane and my BOB is modular to fit inside a car or plane. If I am walking out on foot I have encountered a lot of failures and I am in a world of hurt.

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by Kelvar » Fri May 21, 2010 10:09 pm

Valid points, certainly. No one is going to hoof it if driving is an option. But I think it is about hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. I love the idea of the big plastic bins of food and water to throw in the vehicle.

*But* I think preparing for the worst, preparing for the unexpected is what we're trying to do, right? I think it is always smart to ask, "Yes, but what if...?"

So, what if you find all the roads jam packed, bumper to bumper, with nothing you can do about it? I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to think of the movie that illustrated this really well, but it seems like a real possibility. What if the emergency involves an EMP that disables your vehicle?

So I think a BOB has a place (and FEMA and the Red Cross agree, right?), but it should only be one slice of one's preparedness plan.

All of this is just my opinion. :|


ETA: Damnit, Raptor beat me to it and said it better. :oops:
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by TheGunslinger » Fri May 21, 2010 10:18 pm

Independence day, where whatsisface and his dad are trying to drive back into Washington, and the lanes are jammed solid.

That's the one that immediately sprang to mind.
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by Deschain » Fri May 21, 2010 11:13 pm

I've seen traffic. Hell, I live off one of the GTA's main valves for 400-series congestion. Earthquake-zone people have a reasonable reason for the bag- overpasses can collapse. As far as bugging out from an EMP goes...well, how did you get that far? And if you say 'I Was on my way home', aren't you dealing with a GHB, and not a BOB?

As far as the getting-out-and-hoofing-it crowd goes...while it is certainly better than nothing, think about it. Now not only are you exposed to the elements, but everyone stuck in traffic will see you. And that makes you a bit of a target now, doesn't it? What do you think the NG is going to think of a single person who gets out of their car and heads off in a random direction? Is your BOB geared towards your locale? What about a highway packed with cars and extremely irate and panicky motorists?

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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by raven1093 » Fri May 21, 2010 11:24 pm

true...abandoning your BOV would make you a target of others who are opertunists and are unpreppared for the SHTF moment...
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Re: The BOB is dead!

Post by raptor » Fri May 21, 2010 11:30 pm

I have seen my share of Interstates jammed with evacuees for hurricanes. It is not pretty. All you have to do is look at Houston during the 2005 Rita evacuation for a lesson in gridlock, cars running out of gas and failed evacuation. A 60 mile trip can take 6 hours. In Houston people took 8 hours to go 20 miles and then ran out of gas.

That said walking out is asking for failure in the vast majority of situations. Certainly there are instances where staying is worse than walking; forest fires, post earthquake cities come to mind. This is where planning and foresight come to play. Evacuate early in the case of hurricanes or forest fires, have a bicycle, motorcycle, airplane or boat as a plan b or c. In short plan a head and be prepared to move if you trigger events occur.

Bugging out is a very risky move and should not done lightly, with or without a BOB.

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