What gortex liner, socks, gloves will keep me warm when wet?

[alfred10]

I have a 5 11 rush 72 pack that I carry daily in my vehicle. I carry a USMC gortex jacket. It is not very warm at all but is light and water proof. What can I put under it to keep me warm to -40? I want to be able to stay warm enough to survivie if in a Northern Maine/ Alaskan eniornment.

I want some type of a fleece that will keep me very warm when totally soaked with water. Is there a fleece linner that is very light while doing this?

For the bottom layer I want to have an under pants set up that will keep me warm but not take up a huge area in my pack. Is long underwear fine? Who makes long under wear that keeps you totally warm when wet?

I want a set of gloves that are totally water proof, very warm, and are not bulky.

Finally I will stuff a pair of socks that are extremly warm, durable, and keep feet warm when wet.

I heard wool does everything here but is there anything better out? How warm does wool keep you when its wet?

[thelight]

Not one item per area, but layers. It's the only way you'll get the warmth and flexibility that you're looking for.

As to warm when wet... you're looking at wool and certain synthetics like fleece. Honestly, wool is still one of the best choices. Silk is good as a base layer. There are some options that have been discussed here a few times. Even with this, though, you'll want to get dry as soon as possible. Cold + water + good insulation = miserable time and lessened (but still a big) risk of hypothermia.

Check out the winter camping threads in the 007 subforum. We've been over cold weather gear at length.
And gortex... isn't an insulator. It's designed to keep water out while letting your sweat breath.

Here: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Azombiehunte ... r+clothing That should be a good start.

[CitizenZ]

I don't think there is a synthetic made that is better than wool when wet. It retains about 80% of it's insulating ability when wet. Down and cotton are the worst when wet. Fleece is in the middle. There are many different kinds of fleece. Some will retain their structure better than others when wet. Thininsulate is still the usual garment of choice under Gore-Tex. It does pretty well when wet.

That's the reason you see so many heavy wool shirts, pants and jackets in those northern regions. It still works great.

As thelight said; layers, silk, wool, fleece, thininsulate then goretex.

When traveling in the Bush most mountain men always carry a complete change of clothes. If you fall in the water in the Bush, you have just a few minutes to build a fire, strip and change clothes before you lose the use of your fingers and will be dead soon.

[CitizenZ]

Add to clarify. No clothing will keep you warm at -40 when "wet". Water wicks away heat from your body 20 times faster than air. If there is wind or moving water (like in a stream) that effect is multiplide even further. Hypothermia in minutes even at moderate temps.

If you want to stay warm, you must stay dry. Even your own sweat will reduce the warmth of your clothing. Ventilation and moisture "wicking" are just as important as insulation.

[hawk55732]

Just a thought on the Gortex and wool. In S. Korea many of the tailor shops would sew a thick wool liner that could be zippered in and out. I never did it but it always looked like a good idea.

[Blacksmith]

Finally I will stuff a pair of socks that are extremly warm, durable, and keep feet warm when wet.

Why not just get Goretex lined boots? They will keep your feet dry without getting the boots wet. Much better.

[-Darkhorse-]

I wear a 'stealth suit' Gortex top and bottom when in the field and have worn in it the field with long underwear, fleace top and bottoms, stealth suit and then my uniform on the outside in -30 and I was fine. Havn't tried it in -40 but if you were moving you'd sure build up heat quickly in it, and if stationary I'm sure you're ability to make shelter would balance it out quickly.

As for gortex socks vs gortex boots, even when you take gortex boots somtimes you get water in them, and one way or another if you have gortex socks you can put your feet in something dry. We don't go into the field without gortex socks. It's just a bad idea.

[elkhills]

Finally I will stuff a pair of socks that are extremly warm, durable, and keep feet warm when wet.

I am a born again disciple for Merino Wool socks. I don't know how it works, but they really do keep my perpetually cold feet warmer than anything else I've tried. And they do in fact stay fairly warm when wet.

[none1]

-40 is tough. Light = $$ + REALLY -40 warm = $$ + warm enough for -40 when wet ... /shrug good luck

Underarmor brand "COLD GEAR 3" is top notch base layer, REALLY warm and about as light as you can get for that amount of warmth.

I've done the underarmor, down vest, primaloft liner + goretex shell that was too warm when moving at -15 with wind, would prob need to add a fleece at -40.

I recommend down vests, can be gotten in like 550 fill, really add a lot of warmth for like $30, but don't add bulk to the arm area for ease of movement, and they really pack down small. Ya ya, I know, its not great when wet, but when underneath a gortex outer and liner, it'll stay dry.

MITTENS are much better than gloves for warmth, good light gloves + gortex thinsulate mittens would be best, can get away with warm liner gloves + goretex thinsulate heavy gloves, e.g. cabellas.

Boots .. best is two layers, light liner socks + heavy wool socks with just an uninsulated goretex liner work for me to 10ish degrees, I tend to run warm. You can get heavily insulated boots, -40 and sitting you're gona want 800 gram thinsulate, if you're sitting long time or if you run cold you can get them at 1600 grams.

-40 and sitting is realy tough, I would add some of the toe and hand chemical heater packs, can always through a couple in your gloves, boots, and inside jacket to keep warm.

You should also have a facemask / baclavia at those temps, + a hat + have the goretex hood up, good hoods let you cinch around the face to keep your hat dry.

Big question on the gear needed is how long do you need to survive? If you have a shelter with fire, and will only be going out to do some chores for a few hours mostly moving, you need much less gear than if you've only got a tarp / tent and / or are on a deerstand for 6 hours.

Good luck!!

[Artzi]

Hi Alfred10,

I think all is said already above, but to underline some important things once more if you ever get to those temperatures!



- Layers (works with head stuff, gloves and socks too)!
- Wool, Fleece, Technical stuff (for stopping wind & removing sweat) all good!
- Do not get wet, I mean do not SWEAT! ... or it is Game Over.

And Big + for chemical warmers inside your jacket and gloves!

[alfred10]

Are Merino Wool socks better than smartwool? Who makes the best of the best warm when wet wool socks? Any gortex wool socks out there?

[Artzi]

Are Merino Wool socks better than smartwool? Who makes the best of the best warm when wet wool socks? Any gortex wool socks out there?

I am using mostly 'technical' wool socks from many different manufacturers, not seen much difference even from cheap ones. They are made mostly from wool of course, but because sweat is your number one enemy, it is good that sock will transfer sweat to next layer (next sock or boot). Trick is to have few pair of socks and keep changing them. Also it is very important that your toes have room to move in your boots even if wearing thick sock or two.

Yes I agree that -40 can be pretty nasty ... ... but not that bad, you just need to prepare!

[pat]

You might want to get one of these:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=160279

I have one, its way thicker then the usual fleece vest. Quite warm to.

As others have already mentioned, you want layers. One liner wont do it all, especialy at -40!

[Lucretius]

A------ha! I feel kinda special, since I've lived in this sort of climate all of my life...

1. Wool socks, changed for dry&warm ones every 4th hour.

2. Loose and in layers. Layer 1 can be "kinda" tight, but 2, 3, and possibly 4 should be loose fitting.

3. WARM STRATEGIC LOCATIONS! Head, neck, wrists, and feet see a lot of blood circulation. Thusly, they loose OR keep a lot of the bodyheat. A wool buff for the neck, a fleece/wool hat (even if thin), wristwarmers/gloves, and good socks will keep you warm and comfy!
Just try to apply one of those garment in regular room temperature for a while. You'll soon be getting that "Sauna" vibe, which tells you that it'd be a good idea for cold weather outdoorsing.

Nothing beats the feeling of sitting in a REALLY cold environment, while being all comfy and warm... Now, while all the underdressed morons are cocooning in their sacks, let me treat you to a beatiful sunset and my amusing company and a small sip from my flask... Mind the fleece though! Sparks from the fire might melt holes in it!

[none1]

Are Merino Wool socks better than smartwool? Who makes the best of the best warm when wet wool socks? Any gortex wool socks out there?

Merino wool comes from a type of sheep, often finely woven and very soft, often used for layers close to the skin, e.g. light liner socks.

smartwool = a brand name (like ford) for a manufactuer that makes wool clothes. So its not really the right question to ask "is smartwool or merino wool better" that's sort of like asking "is steel better than ford". Many smartwool brand socks are made with merino wool.

For socks in cold, I recommend a light liner sock and a heavy wool outer sock. The liner sock can be made from wool or other technical material, some synthetics are pretty good. I do not recommend cotton for the liner in cold weather. Smartwool makes both light and heavy socks. I personally use a light liner sock, REI brand, made from soft merino wool, as my liner sock http://www.rei.com/product/737998 I also own a few pairs of different branded heavy wool socks, some redwing, some other brands, some smartwool I have are very warm and very nice, but pricey, are http://www.rei.com/product/618127 (those heavy smartwool socks are made from merino wool) there are other brands that are as warm but cheaper. Most "outdoor" stores, cabelas, REI, bass pro, etc. will have both light liner socks and heavy warm wool socks of various brands. You might go to one of those stores and see how they feel.

I do not know of any "wool gore tex socks". There might be .... I have seen "waterproof" socks, some are goretex, but usually these are uninsulated, with the plan being you have your normal warm or light socks, and then the waterproof layer over the normal socks. I usualy recommend the BOOTS be waterproof, and the socks temperature appropriate.

[none1]

You might want to get one of these:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=160279

I have one, its way thicker then the usual fleece vest. Quite warm to.

As others have already mentioned, you want layers. One liner wont do it all, especialy at -40!

Nice point pat!

I've given a couple of these jackets as gifts. I got them from http://stores.alleghenywholesale.com/-s ... Detail.bok they sell the small for $7. O.O These are much heavier fleece than most of the other fleece jackets I own. They are VERY warm, but don't pack as well as some of the lighter fleece. I like the newer ECWS military gear a little better, they have pit zips for ventilation, but are much more expensive. For under $20, these bear jackets really are a good buy for the warmth.

[pat]

I do not know of any "wool gore tex socks". There might be .... I have seen "waterproof" socks, some are goretex, but usually these are uninsulated, with the plan being you have your normal warm or light socks, and then the waterproof layer over the normal socks. I usualy recommend the BOOTS be waterproof, and the socks temperature appropriate.

For water proof boots, I find snow-mobile boots the best bang
for the money. They range from 20-40$ (canadian, US price are most
likely lower) are good to -20, -30C depending on brand. The lower section is mostly rubber and waterproof, the top section have a draw string to keep snow out.

Nothing worst then to sink into some snow and having a bunch
of it scooped up on the way out. Dosent take long for it to melt
once its in there and you end up with wet feet.

[Lucretius]

Nothing worst then to sink into some snow and having a bunch
of it scooped up on the way out. Dosent take long for it to melt
once its in there and you end up with wet feet.

Hmmm. I was going to oppose that statement to claim I could think of worse things that could happen.

Then I realized you were probably right!

[pat]

Nothing worst then to sink into some snow and having a bunch
of it scooped up on the way out. Dosent take long for it to melt
once its in there and you end up with wet feet.

Hmmm. I was going to oppose that statement to claim I could think of worse things that could happen.

Then I realized you were probably right!

Hehe

Yea you could be lost at night in a blizzard with no mean to warm up.

But in a general everyday run of the mill major annoyance that could turn critical.Wet feet in the middle of winter ranks pretty high in my book.

[Turtlewolf]

Here's what I know works with socks, a pair of regular cotton socks under a pair of nice heavy wool socks. Keeps my feet from sweating in heat and keeps them toasty warm in winter. Don't laugh until you've tryed it, the winters here often drop below -40 C and the summers are often +40 C so this method is very much tryed and tested.
Wool on bare feet causes too much sweat, the light cotton underneath is the trick.
As for gortex, I can't comment as I've never used it except as a boot liner. Works good for that but never had a need for gortex socks.

Turtlewolf

[pat]

Ran across this today and imidiately tought about this tread.

http://www.cpgear.com/StoreBox/clothing ... s/6072.htm

I didnt think they did , but it seems there is
such a thing as GoreTex socks. At that price I'd
rather invest in a good pair of boots .

[allofthemonkeys]

This reminds me of one of my co workers. We were all freezing our tails off, including him, and he says, "Don't worry about me, my jacket's goretex." I just wanted to laugh at him because he had no insulation.

[ZombieKraft]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned sealskinz. Sealskinz + Vietnam jungleboots (the kind with drainage holes) = the best setup ever. There's a reason why sealskinz is pretty much the only thing sold at caving stores. You can go swimming and your feet will remain dry.

Wool is nice but heavy when wet and takes forever to dry.
Goretex socks are ok but sweat can be an issue and only work if water doesn't go over the top.
The only disadvantage of sealskinz is the price. If it's too cold for sealskins + a liner then it's probably too cold for water to be in a liquid state (under normal conditions anyway). SealSkinz without a liner kept me plenty warm while standing in 50 F water for 8 hours at a time. If it's sub zero temps and you aren't going to be knee deep in arctic water then wool + goretex are probably your best bet.

SealSkinz makes gloves too.