Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by tojo » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:56 pm

NoAm wrote: It truly makes me wonder how have all these countries come to this?
I am aware of what has been happening in the US over the last decade but I read these article and just think "How, Why"?
Why does someone else always have to come to the rescue? What ever happened to accountability, self sufficiency and just plain old common sense?
Hi everyone - I'm kinda new, and only presented myself in the intro section a few weeks ago. I've been lurking for a few months and have been checking up on this thread because I believe it to be particularily pertaining to my life at this moment. I write from one of the PIIGS (not really the nicest of acronyms, btw :) ) countries; specifically, Italy.


Yes, I'm Italian. 8-)

Not really something to be proud of these days, though, huh? I realize that the whole world is probably asking precisely what you, NoAm, are asking yourself, as in "How, and Why?" All I can give are my (inner-perspective) two cents by saying this: the Euro and the Eurozone were destined to collapse at the first sign of global economical difficulties. The main problem we can see here is: we are different people, in different countries, with different economic "goals", different "color" governments, different histories and each complex in its own way.

There are, of course, european standards and regulations, and one can argue that those should've kept countries such as mine in "check": but what is the "consequence" of not enforcing these regulations and not meeting these standards?

Haha. A fine. "a sanction" you could call it, which will still be payed by the taxpayers, which is basically why countries don't really care for these fine (at least mine clearly didn't).

This being said, there are other problems. You were asking about self-sufficiency and accountability; well, self-sufficiency in itself is basically illegal within the European Union, meaning that if any country were to try to rely on itself only (by taxing imported goods, for example, which is also against the Treaties) it would be deeply frowned upon to say the least.

Wrapping it up: why someone else has to come to the rescue. Well, to me, the EU and the EU-partners look very much like they enjoy the good times, but, hey, everyone is on their own in the bad times. As in everything human, it can't be a one way-only route, it can't be "positive-aspects-only"; there will be downsides, sooner or later, and this historical moment is one of those downsides. And, just to be clear, no one ever actually asked for help from my country, as of yet (I mean actual financial loans; the only "help" we received, and it was in the form of a "strong suggestion", was for some austherity measures in August and October). We are trying to deal with it on the inside.

I hope this post will not violate the ZS non-politics standard, but if it does, I am sorry; it's not my intention to talk about politics, it's more of a cultural/historical/european law- thing.
And sorry for the rambliness of the post-it's quite late here. Any mistakes will be corrected tomorrow.
-tojo

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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by J.C. » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:33 pm

Skull_Hide wrote:Quick sorta OT question, if you had some paper money in British pounds would you keep it or Exchange it to something else right now?
I would not advocate anyone keeping any large quantity of cash that they cannot spend locally. If its not very large then...who cares? Right now the exchange rate contains all the information, uncertainty and fear that the markets harness. None of us know anymore about it.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by Doc Maker » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:18 am

I recommend stocking up on tradable goods like generators, .22LR ammo and rifles (so no one out guns you but can still hunt), tools, radios, etc. Gold is a good idea for the "after" when things get stable. During a crisis, how do you determine the value? Gold will not be at $1800/oz. in an emergency situation, so how much is a week of food in gold 5 grams or 50? Do you smelt it into one gram slips? Silver coins? Not enough out there for everyone. That leaves goods and services for barter, which is actually the best thing in the short term. Cleaning up after a zombie apocalypse will be messy and many hands...
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by the_alias » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:41 am

Britain in a second credit crunch:
Britain has entered second credit crunch, confirms Downing Street
Britain has entered a second credit crunch, Downing Street said on Wednesday night, as America was forced to intervene to stop the eurozone crisis leading to a global financial collapse
Rest at the link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... treet.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by max v » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:06 am

http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2011/10/31/ ... t-to-fail/
I am sure the euro will oblige us to introduce a new set of economic policy instruments. It is politically impossible to propose that now. But some day there will be a crisis and new instruments will be created.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by tojo » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:04 pm

max v wrote:http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2011/10/31/ ... t-to-fail/
I am sure the euro will oblige us to introduce a new set of economic policy instruments. It is politically impossible to propose that now. But some day there will be a crisis and new instruments will be created.
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Desperate times call for desperate measures..

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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:28 am

background piece on German reluctance to print money to refill the banks and water down the debt
Haunted by '20s Hyperinflation, Germans Balk at Euro Aid
Norbert Schulze was not yet born when the hyperinflation of the 1920s deeply scarred the German psyche. But he still remembers the Reichsmark notes denominated in millions and billions that years later were tucked into a box with the family’s old black-and-white photographs.

Now, Mr. Schulze, a 56-year-old auto mechanic, says runaway inflation looms again, threatening to decimate his savings and turn his carefully planned retirement into abject poverty. It is not so much the ghost of the 1920s that he fears, but the vocal demands around Europe and abroad for a “big bazooka” of public money to reassure markets and help European countries in heavy debt.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45521028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by Lynxian » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:06 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:background piece on German reluctance to print money to refill the banks and water down the debt
Haunted by '20s Hyperinflation, Germans Balk at Euro Aid
Norbert Schulze was not yet born when the hyperinflation of the 1920s deeply scarred the German psyche. But he still remembers the Reichsmark notes denominated in millions and billions that years later were tucked into a box with the family’s old black-and-white photographs.

Now, Mr. Schulze, a 56-year-old auto mechanic, says runaway inflation looms again, threatening to decimate his savings and turn his carefully planned retirement into abject poverty. It is not so much the ghost of the 1920s that he fears, but the vocal demands around Europe and abroad for a “big bazooka” of public money to reassure markets and help European countries in heavy debt.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45521028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now there's a wise man. We can only pray these retarded 'drastic measures' won't be taken without us - the people - having a say in it. (Incredibly wishful and naive thinking, I realise.)
tojo wrote: Yes, I'm Italian. 8-)

Not really something to be proud of these days, though, huh?
There's nothing wrong in being proud of your heritage. Just because there has been questionable (financial) leadership in the past few decades does not mean you can't be proud of your country. If lousy leadership were any reason not to be proud of your country then I wouldn't dare to show my face anywhere, again. Besides: pizza and Italian girls: wohoo!
tojo wrote: This being said, there are other problems. You were asking about self-sufficiency and accountability; well, self-sufficiency in itself is basically illegal within the European Union, meaning that if any country were to try to rely on itself only (by taxing imported goods, for example, which is also against the Treaties) it would be deeply frowned upon to say the least.
While I agree with pretty much everything you said, I don't feel this is entirely accurate: the EU illegalizes internal market protection between member states, true, but this doesn't mean an E(M)U member can't be self-sufficient. You can be, it just means that you also have to allow for other products to enter your country. Since most internal markets are heavily subsidized by the EU monstrosity (with the most prime example being that about 70% of the entire EU budget goes to farming subsidies) this means the excess of products isn't likely to result in less demand and thus less self sufficiency. The excess material is simply stored at someplace but the producers still receive a fair amount of money for a product where there is very little demand for. In the case of Italy specifically, based on my knowledge, you actually have a relatively self-sufficient country. The main problem to me seems (but, of course, you live there, so correct me if I'm wrong) the difference in wealth between the north and the south and that the politicians joined a monetary union with high demands before their country was ready, all because of their political fantasy of a peacefully unified Europe.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by Kommander » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:31 pm

Sadly Lynxian the people had their say when they voted to join the union and gave up part of your nations sovereignty to a bunch of unelected technocrats. The people are noonger part of the process.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by tojo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:20 pm

Lynxian wrote: The main problem to me seems (but, of course, you live there, so correct me if I'm wrong) the difference in wealth between the north and the south and that the politicians joined a monetary union with high demands before their country was ready, all because of their political fantasy of a peacefully unified Europe.
Spot on for the first part (difference in wealth - and productivity - between north and south) and kinda spot on for the second part. It was both what you said about political fantasies and the "we have to set an example thing", Italy being one of the "Founding Six" european countries.
Of course, when all of this was goin' on, I was about ten (y. 2000'); what I do remember is that one of the main points on which the euro was campaigned was that it would really help tourism, which plays an important role in Italy's economy.
Lynxian wrote:
tojo wrote: This being said, there are other problems. You were asking about self-sufficiency and accountability; well, self-sufficiency in itself is basically illegal within the European Union, meaning that if any country were to try to rely on itself only (by taxing imported goods, for example, which is also against the Treaties) it would be deeply frowned upon to say the least.
While I agree with pretty much everything you said, I don't feel this is entirely accurate: the EU illegalizes internal market protection between member states, true, but this doesn't mean an E(M)U member can't be self-sufficient. You can be, it just means that you also have to allow for other products to enter your country.
That was what I meant in basically illegal :) . In our consumerism-based society the only chance of people buying the italian products and relying on the self-sufficiency of the country would be by blocking or reducing (or disencouraging) imported goods, which is an internal market protection, of course.

Kommander wrote:Sadly Lynxian the people had their say when they voted to join the union and gave up part of your nations sovereignty to a bunch of unelected technocrats. The people are no longer part of the process.
Hoping to not - breach the non-politics rule of the forum, I will agree with you by linking this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXmidPjQaE8

If such a prominent figure of european politics says something like this, then the people are definitely no longer part of the process.

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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by Lynxian » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:07 pm

Kommander wrote:Sadly Lynxian the people had their say when they voted to join the union and gave up part of your nations sovereignty to a bunch of unelected technocrats. The people are noonger part of the process.
If only I had been allowed to vote and the voters hadn't been heavily influenced with propaganda.
tojo wrote: That was what I meant in basically illegal :) . In our consumerism-based society the only chance of people buying the italian products and relying on the self-sufficiency of the country would be by blocking or reducing (or disencouraging) imported goods, which is an internal market protection, of course.
No argument there. But at least in food production self sufficiency is still possible. (Ironically thanks to the EU farming subsidies.) Besides, Italy still seems to be pretty self sufficient when it comes to heavy industry. Italy still has its own ship, airplane and car production companies. It seems to be one of the most self sufficient countries in the EU to me.
tojo wrote: If such a prominent figure of european politics says something like this, then the people are definitely no longer part of the process.
Well, the inhabitants of the EU don't play a large part in the process, anyway. A superstate like the EU doesn't work. EU proponents like to compare the EU to the USA where there's also a large entity controlling many states, where the voters have a relatively powerful vote. This works in the US because there's only two large parties that really count; the Democrats and the Republicans. When there's limited choice then such a large entity works. When, however, each member state has their own political parties, each with different views, collected into roughly 10 collaborative parties, then no matter how large the economical, fiscal and cultural integration, it simply isn't going to work. When there's hundreds of million of voters then there need to be limited options to chose from in order to have a managable democratic situation. When there's almost a dozen decision, then everybody's going to be a minority and it's always going to be concession politics where no hard decisions (let alone decisions that represent the public) will be made.

Back on topic to the economical crisis: for this reason alone I don't see a European solution coming that's going to work. I see an unmanagable decision that's likely to get only worse and will have its effect on further losing confidence of the financial markets.
Slow zombies, evidently...
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by TC » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:13 am

It seems to me that, as I have said previously, if there was a solution to this problem we would have seen it by now and it would have been implemented. I see three major obstacles to such a 'solution' coming about previously, presently and in the future:

-Number one, this problem is just so damn big now that there cannot be an effective solution.

-Number two, even if there was an effective solution, the egos of the leaders of the leaders of 'core' Euro nations are so massive that they cannot countenance any plan that is not what they propose or that they can take the credit for.

-Number three if you want a big treaty change, you need to involve all EU member states, including those who are not part of the Eurozone, who will want something for their vote and will also have to justify any deal with their citizens.

On the subject of democracy being run roughshod over, I think if we've seen one thing this year, it's that a revolutionary spirit is in the air. If people feel like they are being screwed big time, especially when their pockets and bank accounts are empty, and that their futures and those of their children are being destroyed, I suspect that they will go absolutely ape shit. What the result of that would be, I don't know, but I am just saying that there is not going to be an easy, smooth resolution to this now or in the future.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by SeerSavant » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:24 pm

TC wrote:It seems to me that, as I have said previously, if there was a solution to this problem we would have seen it by now and it would have been implemented. I see three major obstacles to such a 'solution' coming about previously, presently and in the future:

-Number one, this problem is just so damn big now that there cannot be an effective solution.

-Number two, even if there was an effective solution, the egos of the leaders of the leaders of 'core' Euro nations are so massive that they cannot countenance any plan that is not what they propose or that they can take the credit for.

-Number three if you want a big treaty change, you need to involve all EU member states, including those who are not part of the Eurozone, who will want something for their vote and will also have to justify any deal with their citizens.

On the subject of democracy being run roughshod over, I think if we've seen one thing this year, it's that a revolutionary spirit is in the air. If people feel like they are being screwed big time, especially when their pockets and bank accounts are empty, and that their futures and those of their children are being destroyed, I suspect that they will go absolutely ape shit. What the result of that would be, I don't know, but I am just saying that there is not going to be an easy, smooth resolution to this now or in the future.

I think this applies to the US debt issues as well... Very well said...
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by DarkAxel » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:21 pm

I have a question, and I hope you gurus can help me understand something.

As far as I can understand, the Fed can control inflation by two means: setting the interest rate and by requesting the Treasury to print more money.

But what kind of inflationary controls are there on all of that non-corporeal money sitting on bank hard drives?

I know the liquidity crisis was caused by too much money being tied up in hard assets (real estate and such), but a lot of the wealth in this country exists only on computer systems, and never leaves those computer systems. Perhaps this virtual currency had a lot to do with it, too.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by Kommander » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:41 pm

The magic computer money is treated the same as printed money in a vault. Remember that the only reason either have any value is because people believe in it. Most of the money "printed" today is really just computer money being leant to banks by the Fed.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by TC » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:55 pm

Remember that when people say that a central bank is 'printing more money', they aren't actually making more physical notes, they are 'making' more of those electronic units of currency you refer too.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by raptor » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:45 am

DarkAxel wrote:I have a question, and I hope you gurus can help me understand something.

As far as I can understand, the Fed can control inflation by two means: setting the interest rate and by requesting the Treasury to print more money.

But what kind of inflationary controls are there on all of that non-corporeal money sitting on bank hard drives?

I know the liquidity crisis was caused by too much money being tied up in hard assets (real estate and such), but a lot of the wealth in this country exists only on computer systems, and never leaves those computer systems. Perhaps this virtual currency had a lot to do with it, too.
The Fed has a bunch of tools to deal with inflation. Very few that can affect deflation though. As for encouraging lending the Fed pays interest on these overnight deposits. It could encourage lending by not paying interest and instead charging banks for the right to keep cash overnight. This has been done in other countries. However, remember a bank makes about 5% to 10% on a regular loan excluding credit cards obviously. If the bank lends money and the debtor defaults it loses its money. So if it were your money would you rather pay 1% to the fed for your money or lose 100% of it to a bad loan. The real answer to getting money out of banks is more creditworthy borrowers.


On a different subject S&P is threatening downgrades on the EFSF bank and 15 European countries.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image


Also the European response to this. A more "perfect" union between the the 17 countries using the euro.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... _pageone_0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PARIS—The leaders of France and Germany, racing to shore up the euro, on Monday issued an ultimatum to the 27 European Union governments, saying they must decide by week's end whether they will accept greater central control over their national budgets—effectively ceding some of their fiscal sovereignty.

Should some countries decide not to participate—the U.K., which opted out of euro membership, has shown little enthusiasm so far—the 17 countries in the euro zone will forge ahead with a more integrated union by signing a new agreement outside EU treaties, they said.


"We will see whether it will be 17 or 27," French President Nicolas Sarkozy said during a joint news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. "But we're going full steam ahead to re-establish confidence in the euro and the euro zone."

The euro crisis took on renewed urgency Monday when Standard & Poor's Ratings Services in a surprise move put France, Germany and 13 other euro-zone nations on review for credit downgrades, highlighting rising concern about the currency bloc's prolonged inability to come up with a decisive fix for its debt woes.

The French and German leaders also made a commitment to never again pressure private investors into agreeing to voluntary losses on euro-denominated bonds—a central element of Greece's second bailout that is still being negotiated.

The commitment marked a shift on the part of Germany from earlier plans to enshrine private-sector participation in any future bailout agreements.

"Greece is and will remain an exception," Ms. Merkel said....snip

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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by max v » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:41 am

Meanwhile over in Belgium a federal government was formed after 540 days of negotiations.

Once again the popular vote was largely ignored in favor of national unity.

Time will tell how this affects the market.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by Kommander » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:03 am

max v wrote:Meanwhile over in Belgium a federal government was formed after 540 days of negotiations.

Once again the popular vote was largely ignored in favor of national unity.

Time will tell how this affects the market.
Ya know having a civil war probably would have been quicker. Just saying...
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by CaptBrainFreeze » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:19 am

raptor wrote:
DarkAxel wrote:I have a question, and I hope you gurus can help me understand something.

As far as I can understand, the Fed can control inflation by two means: setting the interest rate and by requesting the Treasury to print more money.

But what kind of inflationary controls are there on all of that non-corporeal money sitting on bank hard drives?

I know the liquidity crisis was caused by too much money being tied up in hard assets (real estate and such), but a lot of the wealth in this country exists only on computer systems, and never leaves those computer systems. Perhaps this virtual currency had a lot to do with it, too.
The Fed has a bunch of tools to deal with inflation. Very few that can affect deflation though. As for encouraging lending the Fed pays interest on these overnight deposits. It could encourage lending by not paying interest and instead charging banks for the right to keep cash overnight. This has been done in other countries. However, remember a bank makes about 5% to 10% on a regular loan excluding credit cards obviously. If the bank lends money and the debtor defaults it loses its money. So if it were your money would you rather pay 1% to the fed for your money or lose 100% of it to a bad loan. The real answer to getting money out of banks is more creditworthy borrowers.


On a different subject S&P is threatening downgrades on the EFSF bank and 15 European countries.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Also the European response to this. A more "perfect" union between the the 17 countries using the euro.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... _pageone_0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PARIS—The leaders of France and Germany, racing to shore up the euro, on Monday issued an ultimatum to the 27 European Union governments, saying they must decide by week's end whether they will accept greater central control over their national budgets—effectively ceding some of their fiscal sovereignty.

Should some countries decide not to participate—the U.K., which opted out of euro membership, has shown little enthusiasm so far—the 17 countries in the euro zone will forge ahead with a more integrated union by signing a new agreement outside EU treaties, they said.


"We will see whether it will be 17 or 27," French President Nicolas Sarkozy said during a joint news conference with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. "But we're going full steam ahead to re-establish confidence in the euro and the euro zone."

The euro crisis took on renewed urgency Monday when Standard & Poor's Ratings Services in a surprise move put France, Germany and 13 other euro-zone nations on review for credit downgrades, highlighting rising concern about the currency bloc's prolonged inability to come up with a decisive fix for its debt woes.

The French and German leaders also made a commitment to never again pressure private investors into agreeing to voluntary losses on euro-denominated bonds—a central element of Greece's second bailout that is still being negotiated.

The commitment marked a shift on the part of Germany from earlier plans to enshrine private-sector participation in any future bailout agreements.

"Greece is and will remain an exception," Ms. Merkel said....snip
My biggest concern in relying on the Reserve to control inflation is if and when they acknowledge inflation happens. They kept saying the housing market would be fine pfff...last thing they said before the recession was they had no reason to forecast a recession. I don't like their judgement at all. If you look at the list of banks and credit area here and abroad that received money and bailout funds you'll see a lot of failed names, a lot of corrupt names as well. Some that have paid out billions of dollars in fines for bad practices and outright theft.

The Fed reserve has no reason for being.
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by raptor » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:37 pm

CaptBrainFreeze wrote:
My biggest concern in relying on the Reserve to control inflation is if and when they acknowledge inflation happens. They kept saying the housing market would be fine pfff...last thing they said before the recession was they had no reason to forecast a recession. I don't like their judgement at all. If you look at the list of banks and credit area here and abroad that received money and bailout funds you'll see a lot of failed names, a lot of corrupt names as well. Some that have paid out billions of dollars in fines for bad practices and outright theft.

The Fed reserve has no reason for being.
The Fed cannot really control deflation in real assets. The Fed does not have tools to deal with deflation beyond increasing the money supply.


I know people will disagree with this and I want to emphasize this is OPINION and I am not confusing opinion with fact.

In my opinion the Fed did prevent a true fiscal meltdown in 2008. Their actions were extreme and certainly not cost efficient but their actions in October 2008 were vital to the world's financial markets. I am not saying they cured a problem and time will tell if they prevented one or simply kicked it down the road for few years. I also not saying I have done exactly what they did, but I am glad the Fed did act.

Beyond that lies politics and I cannot go there.

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SeerSavant
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by SeerSavant » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:56 pm

Laying blame is really no longer relevant, I think, the seeds of this were laid a long time ago...

The Fed has been doing the best they can, and while I'm not a fan, I'm not gonna say that they are actively making it worse either...

I guess the best I can say is that they are doing their best to forestall what seems to be inevitable.

I do wonder if the longer we "kick it down the road" the more harm will be done when (or if for the optimists) it all does finally fall apart.

Or maybe we are just in a long controlled fall already...


This just sucks, you know?
When I was a kid, despite the constant fear of Nuclear war, there was also this kind of 'belief' that the 21st century would be better...

Instead of a moonbase and a huge space station with regular visits by people who didn't have to spend a year in training, we've retired our shuttle and have to hitch rides with the russians.... Man that is so different than thinking in the late 70s and early 80s...

I expected really, two futures as a kid, the borderline dystopic but technologically advanced future (which is partly there, because of personal computers, cell phones, etc.) and the ravaged nuclear wastelands....

I never expected a nation of walmart shoppers who would spend their time texting their angst and petty irritations on facebook, while oblivious to the world and the people around them...

Sorry, off on a rant... :oops:
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CaptBrainFreeze
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by CaptBrainFreeze » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:07 pm

I respectfully disagree the fed reserve have done the best they can. I base that on my own research and history of the members themselves along with the history since 2005.
I agree they helped avoid a total meltdown, but I see that they actually waited until the last minute to act because they were still denying it was happening until the facts were way too overwhelming.
(I think we can safely bash the fed reserve since the name fed is just a name and not related nor directly involved in politics by their own definition)

I also agree that still pointing fingers at the fed reserve is pretty pointless, more like venting lol. However, for me I could point less fingers if they would change up the game plan some.

I hate inflation, but fear deflation. The 1st is easier to fix.
Capt BrainFreeze
DrthTater wrote:
CaptBrainFreeze wrote:That's it....no more clicking on Zombie Squad member youtube links.
Did you miss the dinosaur porn thread?
squinty wrote:I'm not sure how many licks it takes to get high off fake rice, though. The world may never know.

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CaptBrainFreeze
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Re: Global Debt Time Bomb explodes soon

Post by CaptBrainFreeze » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:40 pm

Meh...ignore the dark mood. I've spent a lot of times in the woods over the last month...and it gets harder and harder to come out of the mountain and back to this crap.

I apologize. (And in advance for the next time :mrgreen: )
Capt BrainFreeze
DrthTater wrote:
CaptBrainFreeze wrote:That's it....no more clicking on Zombie Squad member youtube links.
Did you miss the dinosaur porn thread?
squinty wrote:I'm not sure how many licks it takes to get high off fake rice, though. The world may never know.

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