Running/Jogging for the PAW. Really?

[Vicarious_Lee]

The thought struck me this evening as I was trying to have fun working out and playing with the toddler at the same time. Used to, I felt good about being able to jog about 3 miles in the heat over uneven but flat surfaces outdoors. Now I'm questioning the validity of aerobic conditioning (in this manner) as a good prep.

Some questions I've been thinking about:

1. When are we gonna need to jog like that when SHTF?
2. Even if we do, we'll need to carry stuff, and that'll make it way worse. Is training to run like that even sensible?
3. Does being able to do that jog unencumbered translate that well to useful PAW/SHTF fitness?
4. What's a better pre-PAW, suburbia-friendly conditioning regimen to do?

I guess I never considered that jogging is maybe one of the more specialized and focused forms of fitness that likely won't translate to the overall higher level of strength and conditioning that is needed when SHTF. Obviously, if you're a landscaper, or you cut and clear wood or forests all day, this should make you golden in the PAW, beer-gut or not. What can us schmo office types that have babyass soft hands and live under air-conditioning 24/7 do to make us rock solid (not necessarily "hard") when SHTF?

I got some ideas, and implemented them this evening, and found out some stuff. My kid is 18 months, 27 pounds, and likes to be thrown around a lot. I went off the premise that the most important fitness skill will be the ability to work with high muscle strength and a strong core moving/carrying/lifting stuff all day. A heart rate of 170 in the PAW means we're not conserving energy and are wasting unnecessary calories.

So I did some semi-sprints pushing the stroller about a 1/4 mile. Then I did some 27-pound lifts putting lil' Lee in the circular slide at the top and catching him at the bottom. I focused on the low back and on my form, doing repeated lifting. That felt appropriate. Then I climbed around on the outside of the playground equipment, working on balance with uneven and awkward surfaces, and showing up in odd places on the equipment to surprise my kid.

Then I held him out at arms length and ran down the 50-foot hill to the retention pond. When he said "up". I picked him up and sprinted back up the hill and repeated. Yeah, I was out of breath, but in the PAW, when doing heavy labor, I think good explosive muscle strength is fine, and taking quick rest breaks when moving heavy objects will be the norm.

The coolest thing I tried was carrying him the 1/2 mile back to the house on my shoulders at a really fast walk (4MPH). Taht made my arm that was retaining him tired, and I had to switch a lot. In addition, my low back is hurting like a bitch right now.

So I need to work on my core (had no idea how pathetic I was). On lifting stuff and carrying it at a fast walk (not running, duh) for intermediate distances. I should work on explosive strength with lifting/pulling for short distances with short breathers.

5. Does that sound about right?
6. What am I forgetting?
6. Anyone know of a good PAW fitness regimen that addresses this stuff?

I'm not really good with the whole "plyometrics" training thing. I don't know much about it, but know generally what it is. Would this be good for the PAW?

EDIT: She'll be just fine. Video courtesy of LemmeHitYa. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ire6PrifDvY

[DannusMaximus]

Vicarious, I'm not a personal trainer, so I'll leave the suggestions of specific exercises for PAW fitness to others smarter than myself.

HOWEVER, I don't think that jogging is useless as far as prepping. Far from it. Jogging does a lot for a person's overall physical well-being. It keeps body weight down, keeps blood pressure low, increases overall cardiovascular health, improves bone density, etc. Hell, some studies are saying it boosts the immune system, helps stave off old age demetia - - it's kind of miracle water.

I personally think the ability to put in a hard day's work doing manual labor (setting fence posts, roofing, clearing land and chopping wood, etc.) is going to be more important in the PAW than being able to do 'combat' oriented things like sprints, buddy drags, climbing over obstacles, and whatnot. The damnable thing about fitness is that it is very sports specific. A person who is able to run a marathon will be very good at - - well, running long distances. They might not be worth a shit as far as hauling something heavy or another PAW critical task. But they'll have baddassed cardiovascular health, which is going to be a plus.

So, while doing something like jogging might not give you specific combat or PAW fitness, improving/maintaining your overall health is important. Besides, I think you would be AMAZED at how many people would NOT be able to jog (or even walk) 3 miles. If that's something you're regularly doing, good for you!

Personally, I like to jog and pump a little iron now and again. I'll probably never be asked to bench press something in the PAW or jog 4 miles, but it keeps me happy and healthier. There's a lot to be said for that.

[GunnBorn]

To me its all about being a physical MACHINE. Having top fitness in all levels. That means being able to:

- jog for miles, walk forever, run my ass off when needed and do sprints/bursts of speed anytime necessary.
- have the strength to lift my body many times wether in dipping/pullup/pushup motions, say climbing up an over stuff, maneuvering through tight spaces, scaling obstacles, jumping and leaping etc.
- have the power to lift heavy amounts of weight, you might think a bench press now is worthless but when you get pinned under a 200lb beam in a building collapse that benching might come in handy.
- swim like a dolphin
- and just have the overall physical ability to keep going when 90% of people would have stopped/be unable to continue.

Im not saying I am top notch at all that but those are my basic goals and ones I think other people should strive for as well. Reaching your own personal ultimate level of fitness is the best thing you could do. Its about being having that functional strength so your not winded going up a flight of steps or if your car gets stuck having the power to push it out on your own etc.

[Vicarious_Lee]

Thanks Dannus. That post is exactly what I was looking for. Yes, I think running/jogging is an excellent exercise that has incredible benefits and everyone should do it. No, I do not do this regularly, and have fallen out of a routine in the last year, and couldn't do that now (though I might be able to manage close to 2 miles). I have a gut, and am about 10-15 pounds overweight, which is actually something I think people are okay with being. I can start a thread and cite the study that shows your Grandma was right: 10-15 extra pounds ain't gonna kill ya, and it may, under some circumstances, improve your chances of survival with a critical illness.

The problem is that I'm a grown-ass man now. Most of us are grownups, and we have obligations of work, meal prep, kid raising, bill paying, prepping, home defense, and second lastly: sleep. Lastly, unfortunately, is fitness.

In the 1 or 2 times a week that I can try to blow the cholesterol out of my arteries without abandoning all of my grownass responsibilities, I'm starting to think that a fitness program other than short-distance jogging in a monotonous way might not be the best thing. If I can craft a routine (with the help of the ZS Gym Rats) that I can do 1-2 times a week, that will include my unstable weight of a kid and provide hours of bonding and entertainment and set good health patterns for him in the future, as well as making me better fit for SHTF, then I should do that. In addition, I'd welcome suggestions (other than "take the stairs!") that I could do during the workday to help keep us fitter, like doing 5 minutes of situps with your lil' goober on your chest when you get home from work.

In addition: Placing your kid on your neck and doing full situps is both a good workout and a good entertainment for the little one.

FAKE EDIT: GunnBorn: Those are great goals, and absolutely worthy of working towards. The problem is that, in the pre-PAW, that takes a lot of time that a lot of us don't have. I'm not trying to be a dick, but how many hours a week do you work out, and do you have a mortgage, demanding career, a spouse, kids, and a whole shitpot full of other obligations getting in the way of that? Some of us do.

If you do, or even if you don't, please share your routine with us. It will certainly be helpful. For instance, I gots no time to swim. Swim? Hell, the closest thing to me is a retention pond, and I'm about to start a thread on the safety of eating the fish out of it. Fishing's already prohibited, (though not enforced) getting in it to work out will get me fined.

[NorthShore]

Maybe it would be helpful to think more in terms of establishing some personal benchmarks and then working backwards, crafting a fitness regime to achieve those goals?

That is to say, what are some likely SHTF/PAW situations that one might find oneself in and what level of fitness/skill would be required to overcome them?

In that vein, I present the following:

http://artofmanliness.com/2009/09/15/ev ... st-master/

It's a little goofy (okay... a lot goofy) but the rationale makes sense. Very few of us have the resources, time and will to train ourselves up to Treadstone operative levels merely for "what-if" insurance. Training just enough to meet some practical and achievable benchmarks, on the other hand, might be the way to go.

Of course, if you really want the secret agent workout, here it is:

http://www.squidoo.com/daniel-craig-workout

[by-the-throat]

In terms of a total body workout, I personally think swimming is the way to go. It works damn near every muscle you have, including cardio, and is also a handy skill to have-I am much more likely to encounter a fall into some water than some mutant zombie sodomy bikers. The problem is that it requires a place to swim adequate laps, which means a fairly large pool.

[colinz]

I personally think the ability to put in a hard day's work doing manual labor (setting fence posts, roofing, clearing land and chopping wood, etc.) is going to be more important in the PAW than being able to do 'combat' oriented things like sprints, buddy drags, climbing over obstacles, and whatnot.

I've found that when I've been in good cardiovascular condition, it has made it easier to perform that sort of work than it would have been otherwise. Sure muscle strength is important for heavy lifting type jobs, but when it is continuous you still need a modicum of fitness too.

The damnable thing about fitness is that it is very sports specific. A person who is able to run a marathon will be very good at - - well, running long distances. They might not be worth a shit as far as hauling something heavy or another PAW critical task. But they'll have baddassed cardiovascular health, which is going to be a plus.

When you train for muscular endurance, you also do develop an amount of muscular strength with that too. The distance runners I used to train with were all capable of leg pressing fairly impressive weights for their size and weight.
I've also found it far easier to tramp/hike with a heavy pack on when I've been running training for a while beforehand too, but nothing really makes it easy like proper 'pack hardening' does.

Personally, I like to jog and pump a little iron now and again. I'll probably never be asked to bench press something in the PAW or jog 4 miles, but it keeps me happy and healthier. There's a lot to be said for that.

+1 Well said.

[meanstreak]

It's funny you bring this topic up. I was just talking with a friend at work about this yesterday. He started working out about a year ago and i just got back into the gym about 6 weeks ago. He stated he wasn't lifting weights to be a body builder, he was lifting weights to be a post hole digger. His goal is to focus on excercises that make daily chores and normal work easier.

Makes sense to me. I am focusing on endurance, core body strength and pure fitness.

On a side note, don't stop jogging. It makes you healthier which gives you an edge in a dramatic situation like TEOTWAWKI.

[Vicarious_Lee]

Saw the link NorthShore. Thanks. That all sounds pretty good except for the 15-20 pull-ups. That is absolutely beastly for anyone. When I was 17, at the peak of my fitness, I couldn't do more than 12, and I'm a mesomorph body type. I've got a buddy who's an endomorph (his knees are literally the next step in human evolution, they're built like tanks), and as fit as he's ever been in the past he could never do even one because of where he carried his strength.

Maybe we could replace that with, "Carry half your body weight in your arms 300 feet with no more than 1 minute of rest total in between". That should be a useful skill.

[JTNieman]

I'm of the opinion that anyone who devalues the importance of fitness and strength in a survival situation is probably someone trying to justify their lack thereof.

Logic, reason, and truth all point to fitness being of incredible importance. Your efficiency in oxygen use and metabolic rates will impact your ability to perform basic tasks and complex tasks, as well as increase your reaction time, reflexes, and the health of your mind.

If you've ever had to spend a day driving fence posts, you'd know this all to be true. I was never a better worker than I was at the times when I was an athlete or worked out and cardio trained. I'm out of shape right now and trying to remedy this.

I spend a lot of time swimming for cardio and upper body strength. I don't find that my legs get as much of a workout when swimming but I compensate for that. I'm 6'3" and I will get to about the 4' depth of water and while leaning forward, I will run from one wall back to the opposite over and over. I once read it was common for linebackers and football linemen to use that for leg strength while being low impact and safe on joints, etc. I would definitely have to agree, it's VERY good training and VERY easy on the body. That was kinda tangential...

Anyways... fitness is an important thing for -any- good citizen to maintain. If at any time you are required to defend your home, or serve your community, you can't do it as well if you're a lardass having to leech off an asthma inhaler just to get to the next store in a panic.

[GunnBorn]

whats up bro

No I definately understand your not trying to be a dick and your not a dick. I know what its like trying to balance life and the gym. Its all about integration and priorities. If fitness and getting in shape is something you want to do, you will find the time to do it(which it looks like you are trying to do). I also understand how after work and errands all that stuff a man is tired and working your balls off in the gym is not necessarily a very tempting idea hah. With that said just remember that when you build up you fitness levels you will be able to go longer and harder in your day to day life with better efficiency to boot which will in turn provide more time for fitness improvement... and to answer your question currently I have no obligations aside from staying and getting in excellent shape for the Marine Corps.

You have to first decide WHAT exactly your goals are as far as fitness goes. Do you simply want to be stronger while losing some of that body fat and just have overall better physical conditioning? Do you want washboard abs? Do you want to build yourself up into a mass monster moving gargantuan weights? Do you wanna be able to lift your boy over your head 100 times without fatigue? You see theres a lot that can be accomplished and a lot of these things are different so thats something you must consider first and foremost.

From that basis can you set a foundation for a training routine. I started out a scrawny weakling who was bodybuilding just to build beach muscles. Now that Im built up a bit more my training has switched from just that to being able to move massive weights at a fast pace and building explosive strength as well as overall muscle endurance.

I know its tough making time but in the end your health is worth it and every grown ass man should have a grown ass mans body that means being strong and fit and not a weak fatbody who gets winded running down the block (not saying this is you just an example of a large percentage of adult males). This doesnt mean looking like jean claude van damn (unless thats what you want) but it does mean losing the gut and building up muscular strength and endurance. Not only will you feel better about yourself but you will be a stronger man with higher testosterone levels and reap all the benefits of fitness which are numerous.

If you can lay out your goals and what you want to get out of this I can help you put together a training program as Im sure some of the other guys on here can as well who may have more experience then I.

[andygates]

In terms of a total body workout, I personally think swimming is the way to go. It works damn near every muscle you have, including cardio, and is also a handy skill to have-I am much more likely to encounter a fall into some water than some mutant zombie sodomy bikers. The problem is that it requires a place to swim adequate laps, which means a fairly large pool.

And swimming, while great exercise and an essential survival skill, doesn't do jack for your ability to run for ten miles or flip cars -- alas you have to train at a range of activities in order to be good at a range of activities.

Specialization is for insects, which is why I've been doing triathlon.

There was a moment halfway through my last half-marathon, when I suddenly realized that if this was the zombie apocalypse, I would have a six-mile head start on the shamblers now, and all by foot, and I could keep going like this as long as I wanted. That's a great feeling.

[RoneKiln]

I agree mixed exercies like triathlon are better for you than swimming or running alone. However, swimming will help your running by increasing your lung and heart strength. I know a lot of runners that work out in the pool during winter instead of running (I live in an area with crummy winters) and they claim it does wonders for their running. Yes, running year round might be better for running, but working out in the pool does help and is much better than nothing.

I'm fairly involved in social dancing that's high energy, and swimming regularly does wonders for my physical ability when dancing.

A suggestion to guys, sign up for dance classes with your lady. You'll get exercise and she will love you for it. Even if you're horrible and slow learning. Just don't admit to her it's part of your training for the zombie apocalypse.

[TravisM.1]

My take on it-

Its hard to subject yourself to the types of things you'll have to do in a SHTF situation. Mainly, because you don't know what you're going to have to do until the time comes.

So, the best course of action is to try and stay in at least decent shape, so that you can do whatever you may need to when the time comes. I'm not talking six-pack abs and an ass you can bounce a quarter off of. I'm talking being able to get out of your own way. Being able to climb, jump, run for a few blocks, lift yourself using your arms, and stuff like that. Watch how much you eat. Walk down to the corner store instead of driving. Take the stairs instead of the elevators. Cut your sugary drink intake in half, if not 75%. Do some situps, pushups, and pullups.

[Vicarious_Lee]

Excellent replies, all. I remember the last fitness thread that passed through here went down a little poorly, because the OP basically started a thread titled, "The prep that I happen to be most interested in is more important than the prep that you happen to be most interested in." Those are shitty and never end well. Really, if I started a thread like that, it's be posted in the firearms section (y'all feel me?).

"You can't eat a gun" says the food experts.

"You can't make food fight for your life" says the fitness gurus.

"You can't stop bleeding with 6-pack abs" says the medics.

"You can't outrun 7.62 X 54R, bitch!" says the gun guys (kinda menacingly).

I took the kid out to the playground again because he was fussy today. I ran as fast as I could pushing the stroller about 1/4 mile, then walked. I made a point to climb quickly around the outside of the equipment to play with the boy. I held him by his arms so he could dip his feet in the water, did some more sprints up and down the hill to the retention pond with him in my arms, and walked home because he wanted to look at the birds.

I think my main goal, and I may start a new thread for this, is what is the best thing us busy pre-PAW preppers can do in 15-20 minutes a day, that counts as doing other stuff, that increases our fitness? We can start a brainstorming session. Obviously, "Take the stairs, lardass!" But I think ZS can expand on that.

For one, those Baby Bjorn front-mount chest carriers for your kid are great, if they're of the right age. Mine has grown out of it. They force good posture, and work as a weight belt all while entertaining your kid. Also, walking fast while at work is free, and it actually adds to your ability to get other stuff accomplished (albeit minimally) by decreasing your transit time. Standing up with good posture, and concentrating on using more muscles than necessary to hold in your gut, keep your shoulders up, etc. is a good way to burn just a few more calories per day, and makes you more mobile. I personally keep my labcoat heavy for this reason. I also carry an unnecessarily heavy backpack filed with unnecessary stuff into and out of work every day.

For parents, exercising with the kid is fun for both. I'm feeling I like the brief burst, anaerobic exercises of running my kid from one place to the next and throwing him around. He likes it, too. With older kids, all we have to do is practice whatever sport they're into. My friends across the street recently did a family relay race. They lost, but because the other team cheated. The mom also heads to the track and runs while her daughter (a helluva 10-year-old soccer player) practices. Since she's lost over 30 pounds, a lot of other soccer moms follow her to the track now.

I may try to merge/rename this thread. What other little things do the fit ZS-ers do that help keep them in shape when they don't have time to fight hordes or run triathlons?

Oh, and for the record, I don't care if anyone who works out a few times a week is a little overweight. If your BMI is under 30, and you're fairly fit, and you can handle your stuff, then that's okay. If your BMI is over 30, AND YOU'RE NOT AN ELITE ATHLETE WHO IS SO FIT THEY DON'T NEED TO USE BMI FOR ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME, and don't work out, and can't climb 2 flights of stairs without becoming a gasping mess, you need to prep better.

Conversely, if your BMI is less than 20 because you smoke constantly and do drugs and don't eat enough and don't work out, you're not OK.

[Shadow_Man]

Anything is better than nothing when it comes to exercise, however, your goal should be to be fully rounded in your physical preparedness. I spent most of my military career as a Corpsman of Marines. When it comes to sheer stamina and go power the two infantry battalions I served with were awesome. We ran, we humped (marched with full combat loads) we played sports, push-ups, pull-ups, (and yes...everyone can improve in this area...if you want to. And yes having the ability to pull your full body weight over something can save your life in a critical situation)low-crawl, high-crawl, sit-ups, duck walk, side straddle hops, good-morning darlings, leg lifts and all sorts of various tortures that that Gunny could think up. When you're out and about during your hikes keep a 4-mile and hour pace, run up hills. slog down them. Change your speed, Air-Borne shuffle with your full pack. Use every muscle possible, build up every muscle possible. Variety of movement is the key to survival.

Because I worked in the Battalion Aid Station we didn't get out as much to exercise as the Grunts did. We were too busy fixing them up. But once a week we would speed march. Full pack and flack...about eighty pounds of gear and we humped cross country as quick as we could walk for ten miles. Trust me...this is a killer. We'd also Air-Borne shuffled alternating weeks. Up and down hills, across water ways, cross-country, whatever would test our metal. That was the only way we could keep in shape for the Battalion's 20+ milers. I remember working one 22 mile Battalion hump where myself and another fellow senior Corpsman quite literally ran the entire 22 miles with a full pack and unit-1 (medical kit), and extra IV's. A Marine would fall out. We'd stick an IV in him and toss him in the trailing truck and then have to run to catch back up to the unit. We didn't stop for the whole hump. By the end we were spent but still we had done it.

The point I'm trying to make is don't get hooked on just one form of exercise and training. As much as possible...Do It All. Cross train HARD - try new stuff, vary your work out. When the SHTF you're going to need every ounce of strength and endurance to survive. The only way not to be caught short in one area is to cover all of them.

[the_alias]

I recently bought a book called Solitary Fitness by Charles Bronson - a UK prisoner who has spent 30 years in solitary. He also holds world records for pressups and is very fit. His book so far has been great to read from an enjoyment perspective and also for how you can be fit without a gym and all this. I plan to post a review soon but really so far it's been great and is very applicable for many preppers. Why should we be wasting money on bogus gym memberships and running shoes when we've probably already got stuff that can make us fighting fit!

My thoughts on fitness are really; don't plan for the PAW plan for your day to day life. People should be fit and treat their body right because it is the only one we got! Show it some love. Fat lazy people have no excuse, frankly I find it disgusting but not here to rant on that.

Running for me has always been enjoyable, however I'm also a bit worried about my knee joints due to past x-ray's I really need to see a Doc about it. The important thing is to run correctly. Try running barefoot; you can't run heel to toe. We naturally run like our ancestors; toe to heel. Of course YMMV but for me it really made a noticeable difference.

I think my main goal, and I may start a new thread for this, is what is the best thing us busy pre-PAW preppers can do in 15-20 minutes a day, that counts as doing other stuff, that increases our fitness? We can start a brainstorming session. Obviously, "Take the stairs, lardass!" But I think ZS can expand on that.

These are things I try to do:
Bored? Drop and do 20 pressups, or situps.
Strengthen your ankles whilst sitting at your desk.
Perform wrist stretches whilst thinking.
Take stairs two at a time.
Walk quietly; this takes effort and control.

[andygates]

Careful, boy. You judge my gut and I'll bellysplash you.

[the_alias]

Careful, boy. You judge my gut and I'll bellysplash you.

Says the bloke training for a triathlon and rides his bike. Prob in way better shape than me!

[RoneKiln]

Put ankle weights on while while at work or home. Just wearing them as part of your daily routine can make a big difference. I imagine the same can be said of having weights on your wrists, but I've not tried it myself. I think they'd get in the way.

Having the ankle weights on while doing a short workout makes a big difference too.

[LemmeHitYa]

I think your idea to work out with the kiddo is great. Not only does it provide more bonding time, you're teaching good habits at an early age. That, and the fact that kids get heavier over time.

The playground is also a great place to train, as you mentioned with the uneven/different levels of surfaces.

As far as heavy training in suburbia, depending on the type of BOB you have, there's the option of training with it while pushing the kid in the stroller. If it's not tacticooled out then you can use the excuse that you're training for a really long hike (such as the AT) in a few years. Or get another pack and add weights and bulk. Durable hiking boots add to the details for nosy people. Believe me, if you start jabbering about camping gear with nonoutdoorsy people, they leave you alone pretty quick! Substitute sprints for hills (if there aren't any).

If you'd like to train on more uneven surfaces, there's always the http://www.healthchecksystems.com/bob_sport_utility_stroller.htm for the kid.

[RoneKiln]

Take your Lady (or guy) on some fun exercise activity too. Not cause s/he needs it (even if s/he does) but cause it's time spent with her/him. Biking, dancing, hiking, whatever they may like. You can add ankle weights and a loaded pack to make it more challenging for yourself if you want. Then it's not exercise time taken out of your grown up time. It's grown up time invested in your partner. Same as playing with the kids.

[man in black]

regardless of any PAW practicality cardio makes sure that your heart Isn't like a boxing glove filled with ricotta cheese when you die. That seems like reason enough to me.

[Y.T.]

Put ankle weights on while while at work or home. Just wearing them as part of your daily routine can make a big difference. I imagine the same can be said of having weights on your wrists, but I've not tried it myself. I think they'd get in the way.

Having the ankle weights on while doing a short workout makes a big difference too.

I know that's a common inclination, but actually that's not a safe thing to do. Doctors have stated for years that you should never wear ankle or wrist weights for anything other than stationery lifting exercises. Wearing them while you walk and move about is a sure way to stress your joints, possibly causing injury. That's not what they're made for. Just don't want to see someone do that and get hurt.

My thoughts on fitness are really; don't plan for the PAW plan for your day to day life.

I agree. and that would be my response to the OP's question. Jogging and running with your pack may not be a realistic need in a bugout. I mean, hikers don't practice by running around with their pack, they walk. But jogging and running in the everyday sans pack will keep you fit enough to deal with SHTF situations. It builds strength and cardiovascular endurance. It's a simple activity that requires no gear or contraptions and you can do it anywhere. But as others have pointed out, balance is key. Multiple activities are where it's at: weight/strength training, cardio, stretching.