Canned Foods?

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

AeSix
* *
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:50 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Sean of the Dead
Location: Port Charlotte, Fl
Contact:

Canned Foods?

Post by AeSix » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:01 pm

I was wondering... can canned foods (greenbeans, corn, peas, tuna, baked beans, vienna sausages and the such)
be stored in a container in the garage where mid day summer temps inside garage could reach 100*f +? Or would this prove to be unsafe? Another possible storage location would be in my truck toolbox (just a couple meals' worth), again, in florida with mid day summer temps being close to, or over 100*f?

Are there certain food which can be? Are the certain foods which should not be stored like this?
There was only ever one valid use for the notorious <blink> tag:
Schrodinger's cat isImagedead.
Why can't I open gmail? Am I really that evil?!! gFail! grrr

Summed up:
KTC Error
Replace Operater to continue.

User avatar
Merovech
* * * * *
Posts: 1458
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:32 pm
Location: USDA Zone 7a

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by Merovech » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:26 pm

No.

You need it in a cool place, expiration and storage estimates are based on room temp... your best bet is to convert a closet or an area of your basement if you have one.

The cooler the better, but no need for refrigeration obviously.

Your truck would be pretty out of the question, your tool box likely gets up to about 150 in full sunlight on a 100F day.

Now keeping an MRE or whatever in your GHB is a whole other story.
What does a month worth of food really look like?: http://tinyurl.com/pvymvrw
Suburban Family Tornado Shelter and Preparation: http://tinyurl.com/na8qsfr
Cast Iron Skillets for Everyday Use and Beyond: http://tinyurl.com/onu62yj

User avatar
423aaron
* *
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:52 pm

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by 423aaron » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:43 pm

Merovech wrote:No.

You need it in a cool place, expiration and storage estimates are based on room temp... your best bet is to convert a closet or an area of your basement if you have one.

The cooler the better, but no need for refrigeration obviously.

Your truck would be pretty out of the question, your tool box likely gets up to about 150 in full sunlight on a 100F day.

Now keeping an MRE or whatever in your GHB is a whole other story.
Temperature affects MRE's the same way. As temp increases storage time decreases. If memory serves 60 Deg F. is optimal.
Last edited by 423aaron on Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No greater expression of liberty than the report of a RIFLE!

Just trying to keep this life from becoming "Nasty, Brutish, and Short".

http://www.skillgarden.net

User avatar
Kathy in FL
* * * * *
Posts: 4887
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by Kathy in FL » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:40 pm

AeSix wrote:I was wondering... can canned foods (greenbeans, corn, peas, tuna, baked beans, vienna sausages and the such)
be stored in a container in the garage where mid day summer temps inside garage could reach 100*f +? Or would this prove to be unsafe? Another possible storage location would be in my truck toolbox (just a couple meals' worth), again, in florida with mid day summer temps being close to, or over 100*f?

Are there certain food which can be? Are the certain foods which should not be stored like this?
Storage is a problem here in Florida that's for sure. I converted part of my utility area into a pantry and then I also converted an interior linen closet into extra food storage space. My home canned items go in the linen closet because I can control the light in there better. The commericially canned stuff goes on open shelving in the pantry.

jaybird
* * * * *
Posts: 2101
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:48 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: the entire Dead' series
Location: carthage, tennessee

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by jaybird » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:01 pm

My family uses the closet that contains the fuse box for our canned goods. We still call it the "Y-2K closet" as a joke :) .
" Memory is like a knife. It can hurt you."-Lady Murasaki, Hannibal Rising

" Civility must be rewarded...or else there's no use for it. There's no use for it, at all...."- Dr. Logan, DOTD

herbalpagan
* * * * *
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Western MA
Contact:

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by herbalpagan » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:02 am

Canned product should be in a somewhat stable temperature. I've used closets, put things under the beds and even covered boxes with table cloths and used them as side tables in the living room.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shtfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
JohnB
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:08 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of The Dead (both)
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by JohnB » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:47 pm

I agree with what others are saying. The expiration dates are based on room temperature. I did keep some canned goods in my truck tool box last summer and rotated them out last fall. They had been in the tool box nearly a year. We ate them and could tell no difference. So keeping some emergency canned food supplies in your vehicle should probably be OK as long as they are not near their expiration dates and you rotate them out often.

Also, keep in mind that the food doesn't necessairly go "bad" on the expiration date. You start loosing some of the flavor and nutritional value.
Image

User avatar
thelight
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1989
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:46 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Special Dead, Evil Dead, Army of Darkness
Location: Central NJ
Contact:

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by thelight » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:53 pm

Idea:
Build a closet in your garage for food storage. Run a large, empty, metal pipe from the base of the closet underground and outside. Make the run as long as you reasonably can and as deep as you can. Put a wire mesh screen on the outside end of the pipe and make sure it turns down so water doesn't get it. Put an exhaust fan in the top of the closet. You now have a cheap air conditioner.
"All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope."
~Winston Churchill

Image
Image http://www.theendofthetunnel.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rush2112 wrote:TheLight is a pot-kicking man-ape gone wrong. But we still love him and his ability to carry entire trees at once.

User avatar
whisk.e.rebellion
ZS Board Member
ZS Board Member
Posts: 8187
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:34 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later. Dawn of the Dead (both versions). Return of the Living Dead. Shaun of the Dead. Dead Alive.
Location: Monterey Bay, California

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by whisk.e.rebellion » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:11 pm

This is total hearsay and I would love for someone to correct and enlighten me...

I remember reading/hearing that some expiration dates are entirely arbitrary. Some states -- New Jersey was cited, I believe -- require that foods have an expiration date of not more than two years after packaging.

I'm still searching, but I'm having a hard time finding anything reputable.

User avatar
Jacob Creutzfeldt
* * *
Posts: 706
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:32 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by Jacob Creutzfeldt » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:17 pm

outoforder2day wrote:Idea:
Build a closet in your garage for food storage. Run a large, empty, metal pipe from the base of the closet underground and outside. Make the run as long as you reasonably can and as deep as you can. Put a wire mesh screen on the outside end of the pipe and make sure it turns down so water doesn't get it. Put an exhaust fan in the top of the closet. You now have a cheap air conditioner.
This is a very good idea!
Just make sure condensation is drained from the pipe buried in the ground. When warmer air from the outside is drawn through the cold pipe, condensation will form. And still-standing water is bad.
The light at the end of the tunnel? It's a train.

AeSix
* *
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:50 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Sean of the Dead
Location: Port Charlotte, Fl
Contact:

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by AeSix » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:01 pm

WIsh this woulda come up 2 weeks ago.
I scrapped all the metal pipe I had. Was a swing set, would have been good though I think.
Not too sure the owner would like me burrying a pipe and cutting a hole into the garage LOL

BUT, I was thinking, what if I was to bury (obviously water-proof) box with the canned food?
I was thinking of digging a hole twice as deep as the chest I have, back fill with course sand to 1/4 the depth of the hole, rest the box in there, pack sand around the sides, and come up with something to cover it with. I would want regular access to this box, so covering it with dirt or rock isn't the best solution.
Maybe a planter the size of the hole that I can pull out?

Would this work do you think?
There was only ever one valid use for the notorious <blink> tag:
Schrodinger's cat isImagedead.
Why can't I open gmail? Am I really that evil?!! gFail! grrr

Summed up:
KTC Error
Replace Operater to continue.

User avatar
thelight
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1989
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:46 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shawn of the Dead, Special Dead, Evil Dead, Army of Darkness
Location: Central NJ
Contact:

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by thelight » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:23 pm

AeSix wrote:WIsh this woulda come up 2 weeks ago.
I scrapped all the metal pipe I had. Was a swing set, would have been good though I think.
Not too sure the owner would like me burrying a pipe and cutting a hole into the garage LOL

BUT, I was thinking, what if I was to bury (obviously water-proof) box with the canned food?
I was thinking of digging a hole twice as deep as the chest I have, back fill with course sand to 1/4 the depth of the hole, rest the box in there, pack sand around the sides, and come up with something to cover it with. I would want regular access to this box, so covering it with dirt or rock isn't the best solution.
Maybe a planter the size of the hole that I can pull out?

Would this work do you think?
What you describe should work well. Keep in mind that your lid needs to be insulated. Keep the sun off of it and you can use less insulation. Also, most folks use straw to line the hole. Not exactly sure why though, airflow maybe? Anyone know?

Storage pit for Root Crops
Urban root cellar
Make a fully functional cold storage pit/mound - Backwoods home
One more useful link

Found some of the useful links from here.

ETA: One more really good link on passive cooling and zeer pots
"All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope."
~Winston Churchill

Image
Image http://www.theendofthetunnel.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rush2112 wrote:TheLight is a pot-kicking man-ape gone wrong. But we still love him and his ability to carry entire trees at once.

User avatar
423aaron
* *
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:52 pm

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by 423aaron » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:57 pm

Image

Temp/ timeline for MRE's
No greater expression of liberty than the report of a RIFLE!

Just trying to keep this life from becoming "Nasty, Brutish, and Short".

http://www.skillgarden.net

User avatar
Kathy in FL
* * * * *
Posts: 4887
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by Kathy in FL » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:06 pm

Again, our water table in Florida might be an issue. Even if you can find a relatively dry area to bury in, sand is very dense and heavy. Make sure your container isn't going to collapse. AND make sure it is bug proof including ants and termites.
AeSix wrote:WIsh this woulda come up 2 weeks ago.
I scrapped all the metal pipe I had. Was a swing set, would have been good though I think.
Not too sure the owner would like me burrying a pipe and cutting a hole into the garage LOL

BUT, I was thinking, what if I was to bury (obviously water-proof) box with the canned food?
I was thinking of digging a hole twice as deep as the chest I have, back fill with course sand to 1/4 the depth of the hole, rest the box in there, pack sand around the sides, and come up with something to cover it with. I would want regular access to this box, so covering it with dirt or rock isn't the best solution.
Maybe a planter the size of the hole that I can pull out?

Would this work do you think?

User avatar
Hu-man
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by Hu-man » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:22 pm

AeSix wrote:I would want regular access to this box, so covering it with dirt or rock isn't the best solution.
Maybe a planter the size of the hole that I can pull out?

Would this work do you think?
How about a slab of styrofoam with some gravel or astroturf glued to the top?

LowKey
* * * * *
Posts: 4648
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Dead (original and remake)
Dawn of the Dead (original and remake)
Land of the Dead
Diary of the Dead
28 Days
28 Weeks
Resident Evil
Shawn of the Dead
Night of the Comet (cheese squared!)
Dead Alive (cheese cubed!!)
Location: In the Middle East, for my sins.

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by LowKey » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:46 pm

Jacob Creutzfeldt wrote:
outoforder2day wrote:Idea:
Build a closet in your garage for food storage. Run a large, empty, metal pipe from the base of the closet underground and outside. Make the run as long as you reasonably can and as deep as you can. Put a wire mesh screen on the outside end of the pipe and make sure it turns down so water doesn't get it. Put an exhaust fan in the top of the closet. You now have a cheap air conditioner.
This is a very good idea!
Just make sure condensation is drained from the pipe buried in the ground. When warmer air from the outside is drawn through the cold pipe, condensation will form. And still-standing water is bad.

A small (possible) improvement for this is to put a second larger diameter pipe out through the ceiling and roof. Paint the pipe and it's raincap above the roof black. As the sun heats the pipe (and the air inside) hot air rises, drawing cool air into the system.
It's thermal siphoning of air, and was used on a larger scale in the middle east to cool palaces a long time ago.

The longer the first pipe remains underground and the deeper it is, the more heat the air inside the pipe will be able to dump into the ground.
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

Ufdyixcaff
* * * * *
Posts: 3696
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:54 am

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by Ufdyixcaff » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:50 pm

I dont have the relevant links, but Ive seen recently several posts from several sources saying that canned goods expiration dates deal STRICTLY with taste, not edibility. Because of the processing that the cans go through, the contents are sterile and will not go bad unless the can becomes damaged somehow.

They should still be perfectly edible, regardless of temps it was stored at, for 10 years or more.... might taste worse than a C-Rat, but the nutritional content and safety should remain.

LowKey
* * * * *
Posts: 4648
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Dead (original and remake)
Dawn of the Dead (original and remake)
Land of the Dead
Diary of the Dead
28 Days
28 Weeks
Resident Evil
Shawn of the Dead
Night of the Comet (cheese squared!)
Dead Alive (cheese cubed!!)
Location: In the Middle East, for my sins.

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by LowKey » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:10 pm

KeepItSimpleStupid wrote:I dont have the relevant links, but Ive seen recently several posts from several sources saying that canned goods expiration dates deal STRICTLY with taste, not edibility. Because of the processing that the cans go through, the contents are sterile and will not go bad unless the can becomes damaged somehow.

They should still be perfectly edible, regardless of temps it was stored at, for 10 years or more.... might taste worse than a C-Rat, but the nutritional content and safety should remain.

KISS,
The correctness of your response to this was like Ivory Soap.....99% pure.
The calories in the can stay the same, and the food remains safe to eat. The taste/texture degrade and some of the vitamins degrade as well.

I'm also missing the link to this info, but I seem to recall it being covered by one of the Universities in Utah.

Why am I not surprised that research on food storage is being done in the Land-o-Mormons? :D
Gotta love 'em, :D
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

razi
* * * * *
Posts: 3967
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:42 pm

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by razi » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:35 pm

it might be easier just to insulate the garage and provide some sun shade for it instead of burying a cooler. it'll give you more available space too.

sun shade = a vertical planter on the south side of the building would be ideal.
Image

User avatar
Canuckdoomer
*
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:50 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead
28 Weeks Later
Location: Canuckistan

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by Canuckdoomer » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:39 pm

Here is a link to a study done on canned food that was found in a old Steamboat from 100 years ago.

http://grandpappy.info/hshelff.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Heat, light and moisture are your enemy. Other than that, I ignore the best before dates on most canned goods.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

User avatar
SwampRat
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 1353
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:59 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead(the remake), any of the resident evil films, 28 days later, armies of darkness, dead snow... ah hell it's like pickin a favorite child...
Location: Florida/Texas/NewYork

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by SwampRat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:41 pm

I was researching the passive cooling pipe for my house about a year ago and from what i found they are potentially dangerous in humid places like Florida because the condensation in the tubes fuels the growth of black mold, and that's some nasty stuff as I'm sure you know being a Florida resident. If it was safe I'd put one coming up in every room, lol you know how much AC bill cost around here. If your storing canned goods in your truck just watch out for botulism I think it's called. Shake the can before you upon it and if it makes a slosh sound your good but if it makes a thud sound don't eat it, at least hats what i was always shown.
Upon reading one of my posts you should assume that before I post I reread my posts twice and then often again after I post to check and recheck for spelling and grammatical errors. And I still miss most of them because, as it turns out, when you are home-schooled, you are only as smart as your mom.

User avatar
EvilTOJ
* * *
Posts: 728
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:08 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Resident Evil movies
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by EvilTOJ » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:41 am

For canned goods, if you can pop the ends in and out instead of it being solid, that's when botulism is growing and creating its waste gasses. There's plenty of foods that don't slosh in the can, like different kinds of beans so shaking it isn't a good test.
If the zombie apocalypse ever happens, I'm just going to surround my house with outward facing treadmills.
I should be fine.

AeSix
* *
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:50 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Sean of the Dead
Location: Port Charlotte, Fl
Contact:

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by AeSix » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:03 am

You guys are giving me a LOT of GREAT information..

The reason I don't want to store in the garage, well, there's not that much room, and it needs to be used for the stuff that's in there AND I need to make room for a workshop. It's been a solid decade since there's been a car in there, so storage and workshop is about all it's good for. Food storage would be wasting space I need for other stuff that can't be buried in the back yard.

I think I'll bury a box, well constructed, sealed to be water and insect proof. I think I will pack sand around the box because the sand will keep moisture, which in turn will keep the sand cooler, and the box. It will actually be: dig a hole, build a box inside the hole with several inches between the box and the hole, fill space with sand, then place my container inside the hole. This will allow me to remove and replace the box with out a lot of work.

I will be storing canned foods, water purification of some sort, matches and lighters, and a few other items needed for cooking.

I like the idea of using styrofoam w/ cammoflauge glued to it, but I think it would be too light and easily destructable. I've been thinking about the planter idea more, but I don't know if I could make anything that won't rot or be too flimsy or too heavy to do that with. A honey comb concrete slab would be good, light weigh but durable, and I could use the pad as a grilling pad if done right.

Also, I seen a Roman Well design. I'm not far off from that with my hole in the ground. In an event, with enough sand, a Roman Well would be a good source of cleaner water. It wouldn't take much more work to turn my food storage hole into one I don't think. There would be the added advantage to this that it would be a heatpipe when storing food. This should allow a ten year or so storage of some foods, with a lowered risk of bad foods. The cans will be in a water-tight container, heat and light also won't be an issue at this point.

For those who are unsure of what a roman well is: (At least this is what I seen on Discovery Channel, though I can find no web references - see ascii art below for better idea as well)
Dig a large cone shaped hole, in the center of this, dig a well. Make a casing with perferated holes at the bottom 1/4 or so to allow water to pass into the pipe. Extend above the bottom of the conical hole, and backfill the big hole with sand. Cover with brick with enough space for water to seep through. The water will seep through the bricks, through the sand, down the well and into the well pipe. With enough sand, you will purify the water. I would still purify this, but it would still be cleaner water storage.

The differances I would make, use the box in the hole as the "cone shaped hole", place the pipe to the level of the bottom of the box with a steel cap and plate which can be removed if needed. The bottom of the removable container would be flat and smooth to provide as much surface are with the pipe cap plate as possible to provide radiant cooling of the container.

\-----, ,-------/ <-- surface / brick
\ |_ _| / <-- Container box area
\ | | / <-- top of well pipe going down
\ | | / Area between the | and / or \ is filled with sand
\| |/ <-- Perferated section of well pipe
^^ <-- bottom of well pipe and sand filter
There was only ever one valid use for the notorious <blink> tag:
Schrodinger's cat isImagedead.
Why can't I open gmail? Am I really that evil?!! gFail! grrr

Summed up:
KTC Error
Replace Operater to continue.

LowKey
* * * * *
Posts: 4648
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Dead (original and remake)
Dawn of the Dead (original and remake)
Land of the Dead
Diary of the Dead
28 Days
28 Weeks
Resident Evil
Shawn of the Dead
Night of the Comet (cheese squared!)
Dead Alive (cheese cubed!!)
Location: In the Middle East, for my sins.

Re: Canned Foods?

Post by LowKey » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:15 am

SwampRat wrote:I was researching the passive cooling pipe for my house about a year ago and from what i found they are potentially dangerous in humid places like Florida because the condensation in the tubes fuels the growth of black mold, and that's some nasty stuff as I'm sure you know being a Florida resident. If it was safe I'd put one coming up in every room, lol you know how much AC bill cost around here. If your storing canned goods in your truck just watch out for botulism I think it's called. Shake the can before you upon it and if it makes a slosh sound your good but if it makes a thud sound don't eat it, at least hats what i was always shown.
Hmmmm......what about a UV light in the tube to prevent the mold from growing? Wire it to a solar cell the same way solar powered garden lights are run?
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”