Bulk Food Storage

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
RATFOOD
*
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 11:24 am
Location: San Antonio

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by RATFOOD » Tue May 27, 2008 2:51 am

how long would you have to freeze this to kill the bugs? I have access to a large -12f freezer at work but I dont know if it would take 6 hours or 3 days??

User avatar
GeneralDiscontent
* * * * *
Posts: 1194
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:49 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by GeneralDiscontent » Tue May 27, 2008 4:49 am

RATFOOD wrote:how long would you have to freeze this to kill the bugs? I have access to a large -12f freezer at work but I dont know if it would take 6 hours or 3 days??
The general rule of thumb I've always heard is one week - I don't know if there's any actual hard data on the minimum amount of time necessary, though.
Some of my write-ups you might find useful: My FAK, poncho mod, my BOAT, pressure canning, bulk food storage

brer
* * *
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:08 am
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by brer » Tue May 27, 2008 12:43 pm

I second the General.

One week works well. I have not opened any of my cans years later after I froze them for a week to find bug eaten beans/rice/wheat. While I do not know the minimum time to freeze, a week works well enough.
A nation of sheep begats a government of wolves. -Edward R. Murrow

User avatar
The Commander
* *
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:11 am
Location: Houston- can't escape the sprawl

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by The Commander » Tue May 27, 2008 8:43 pm

Excellent info, once again, my kung fu has grown!!!!! 8)
Image

User avatar
Apollo-11
* * * * *
Posts: 2543
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:07 am
Location: NW

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by Apollo-11 » Wed May 28, 2008 2:46 am

URBAN ASSAULT wrote: As for rice and such, we have always put a piece of dry ice in the bottom of the liner before pouring the rice/grain/legumes on top. You let the dry ice sublimate before sealing your liner and that drives most, if not all, of the excess oxygen present in the product out of the pail.

This really improves the storage life of your food. Make sure that the dry ice is completely gone before sealing your liners though, or your liner might pop from the excess pressure build-up.
This actually happened to us. I got a little enthusiastic in the amount of dry ice I was putting into the liner, then I didn't wait long enough for it to sublimate. Rule of thumb: feel the bottom of the bucket. If it's still very cold, you still have a chunk of dry ice in there. I would probably put in about the amount of 1-2 regular ice cubes. Seal up the bag 90% of the way, wait for the dry ice to sublimate, and then seal it up the rest of the way.
Image

evil0rphan
* *
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:12 am
Location: North of the ATL

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by evil0rphan » Wed May 28, 2008 2:55 am

Apollo-11 wrote:
URBAN ASSAULT wrote: As for rice and such, we have always put a piece of dry ice in the bottom of the liner before pouring the rice/grain/legumes on top. You let the dry ice sublimate before sealing your liner and that drives most, if not all, of the excess oxygen present in the product out of the pail.

This really improves the storage life of your food. Make sure that the dry ice is completely gone before sealing your liners though, or your liner might pop from the excess pressure build-up.
This actually happened to us. I got a little enthusiastic in the amount of dry ice I was putting into the liner, then I didn't wait long enough for it to sublimate. Rule of thumb: feel the bottom of the bucket. If it's still very cold, you still have a chunk of dry ice in there. I would probably put in about the amount of 1-2 regular ice cubes. Seal up the bag 90% of the way, wait for the dry ice to sublimate, and then seal it up the rest of the way.

Keep in mind... dry ice is not freezing anything... you are just displacing oxygen (even bugs need it) in the container. Freezing is a separate issue. Freezing is to kill any eggs/larva hidden in the bulk of the food item. But from my experience, depleting all oxygen will do the job. Freezing will not kill bacteria... only heat can do that. Cold only slows bacteria. But, for dry goods in an oxygen-free environment, bacteria is not usually an issue. Same for mold... no moisture/oxygen... no mold.

User avatar
SMoAF
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 4910
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by SMoAF » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:12 pm

Oh, man. I just did 25 x 5 gallon buckets, filling them with rice (450lb), flour (100lb), sugar (100lb), and dry pinto beans(120lb). I went the mylar bag, dry ice (a bit under a pound per bucket, I know, it's too much, but it's fun to play with!), followed by dessicant (half-cup per bucket, double-packed in coffee filters) and oxygen absorbers (2x per bucket) route. I put the dry ice on the top of the foodstuffs, as it pulls a fair amount of moisture out of the bucket, and if it's on top, you can pull out the condensed regular ice. I just finished sealing all of it and putting on the lids. Now I have to freeze them. I must say, I'm exhausted. I've also noticed that I sealed my scoop in one of the bags. There's no way in hell I'm gonna open all those suckers up to try and find a $0.99 piece of tupperware!!!

/Beer time
"Betrayed by the land that bore us; Forlorn by those we hold dear.
The Good have all gone before us, and only the Wicked are here.
So stand to, your glasses ready, for the world is a world full of lies.
Here's to those gone before us, and here's toNo the next man who dies."

No new assholes since 08/18.

User avatar
Apollo-11
* * * * *
Posts: 2543
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:07 am
Location: NW

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by Apollo-11 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:16 am

evil0rphan wrote:
Apollo-11 wrote:
URBAN ASSAULT wrote: As for rice and such, we have always put a piece of dry ice in the bottom of the liner before pouring the rice/grain/legumes on top. You let the dry ice sublimate before sealing your liner and that drives most, if not all, of the excess oxygen present in the product out of the pail.

This really improves the storage life of your food. Make sure that the dry ice is completely gone before sealing your liners though, or your liner might pop from the excess pressure build-up.
This actually happened to us. I got a little enthusiastic in the amount of dry ice I was putting into the liner, then I didn't wait long enough for it to sublimate. Rule of thumb: feel the bottom of the bucket. If it's still very cold, you still have a chunk of dry ice in there. I would probably put in about the amount of 1-2 regular ice cubes. Seal up the bag 90% of the way, wait for the dry ice to sublimate, and then seal it up the rest of the way.

Keep in mind... dry ice is not freezing anything... you are just displacing oxygen (even bugs need it) in the container. Freezing is a separate issue. Freezing is to kill any eggs/larva hidden in the bulk of the food item. But from my experience, depleting all oxygen will do the job. Freezing will not kill bacteria... only heat can do that. Cold only slows bacteria. But, for dry goods in an oxygen-free environment, bacteria is not usually an issue. Same for mold... no moisture/oxygen... no mold.
Right. The dry ice is just there to displace the air with CO2, supplemented by the help from oxygen absorbers. My comment, if I wasn't clear, was that you need to let the dry ice sublimate completely before you seal the bag. If you don't, it'll keep expanding as the dry ice sublimates into gas, and could pop. I popped a couple of bags when I either put in too much dry ice, or didn't wait long enough for it to sublimate. It's a little bit art, and a little bit science. I leave just a corner of the bag unsealed, then come back later and push most of the CO2 gas out of the bag and seal it up the rest of the way.

The next set of storage buckets I do, I'm gonna borrow a nitrogen tank and regulator from work and flush the buckets with pure nitrogen. Same thing. No oxygen, no bugs.
Image

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:18 am

SMoAF wrote:Oh, man. I just did 25 x 5 gallon buckets, filling them with rice (450lb), flour (100lb), sugar (100lb), and dry pinto beans(120lb). [....snip....]
/Beer time
Did you think to schedule the chiropractor appointment in advance?

Seriously, this is good to point how out many buckets it takes how much stuff.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

Beanhead
* * * * *
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:26 am
Location: CITY OF CHAMPIONS

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by Beanhead » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:15 am

What stores sell HDPE food grade buckets and Gamma seal lids? I don't want to use "used" buckets. I was thinking lowes, or tractor supply, might have them, also I live in Pittsburgh we have a decent market district, I was thinking about tryng there. Any suggestions
Omnes ad unum
Cpt. MelonBuster wrote: Nothing says "GTFO of my country right now" like your buddy's head dissolving from a trigger pulled 600m away.

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by phil_in_cs » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:16 pm

Beanhead wrote:What stores sell HDPE food grade buckets and Gamma seal lids? I don't want to use "used" buckets. I was thinking lowes, or tractor supply, might have them, also I live in Pittsburgh we have a decent market district, I was thinking about tryng there. Any suggestions
A "used" bucket isn't as big a deal, since your food is actually stored inside the mylar bag, and doesn't come in contact with the bucket. I wouldn't get something that had contained something toxic or very acidic, but if it was full of shortening or flour you shouldn't have a problem.

We get good new buckets at wally mart; couple bucks IIRC. We haven't gotten the fancy lids, since these are for long term storage and are not something you will be getting into often. Once you crack it open, then you can transfer the contents to a big tupperware bin or something for daily use.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

User avatar
SMoAF
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 4910
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:29 am
Location: Somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by SMoAF » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:11 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:A "used" bucket isn't as big a deal, since your food is actually stored inside the mylar bag, and doesn't come in contact with the bucket. I wouldn't get something that had contained something toxic or very acidic, but if it was full of shortening or flour you shouldn't have a problem.
I went with new buckets from Tractor Supply, along with new lids with an internal gasket. I didn't go with the gamma seals because of the price. IIRC, the bucket/lid combos were under $6 per unit combined cost.

The reason I went with new as opposed to used is because I was sure that they'd do the job. I didn't want to find myself in a bad situation and break open a bucket only to find that the food was bad because I used a recycled bucket/lid, or because the lid didn't seal properly because it had been put on and off too many times and had stretched.

Is it overkill? Yeah, prolly. But I'm pretty sure that what I've put up should do OK, and that peace of mind is worth something to me.
"Betrayed by the land that bore us; Forlorn by those we hold dear.
The Good have all gone before us, and only the Wicked are here.
So stand to, your glasses ready, for the world is a world full of lies.
Here's to those gone before us, and here's toNo the next man who dies."

No new assholes since 08/18.

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by phil_in_cs » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:42 am

SMoAF wrote:Is it overkill? Yeah, prolly. But I'm pretty sure that what I've put up should do OK, and that peace of mind is worth something to me.
You're right; my wife actually pointed this out to me last night too. We're setting up something that is to keep for a decade or more, so an extra $100 on new buckets is well worth it to be sure everything is perfect.



edited cause I can't type
Last edited by phil_in_cs on Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

User avatar
ZombieGranny
* * * * *
Posts: 7382
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:53 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: eh - heck with it, I'm not leaving - I like it here, and the regular folks like me being here.
Location: PNW

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by ZombieGranny » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:43 am

...
Last edited by ZombieGranny on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In my day, we didn't have virtual reality.
If a one-eyed razorback barbarian warrior was chasing you with an ax, you just had to hope you could outrun him.
-
Preps buy us time. Time to learn how and time to remember how. Time to figure out what is a want, what is a need.

Y.T.
* * * * *
Posts: 4096
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:27 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dead & Breakfast,
Night of the Comet,
Shaun of the Dead,
28 Days Later,
Resident Evil: Extinction,
Planet Terror
and a host of post-apoc/sci-fi/dystopia.
...4 words for you: deaf. amish. zombie killer.
...3 more words: machine. gun. leg.

"Idiocracy: it's not just a movie, people. It's a warning."
-- said by a quite awesome friend
(yes, it qualifies as a zombie movie)
Location: Arizona, where the plants try to kill you and the sun tries to boil you alive

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by Y.T. » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:29 am

thanks for the detailed, informative post. great thread. :)

and I had to laugh at this:
GeneralDiscontent wrote:DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, USE YOUR WIFE'S / GIRLFRIEND'S / MOM'S GOOD IRON FOR THIS!!! If they catch you doing this, you are in for a world of hurt. The iron is one of those things women are extremely protective of, much like the "good scissors".
*L* we have a don't-touch-the-orange-handled-scissors-under-penalty-of-death rule in my house. ;)

btw, a really simple clue for you non-ironing folks:
just put a piece of wax paper or a thin piece of cotton cloth like a bandana between the iron and the strange thing you want to press/heat. ;) Simple way to prevent ruining the iron and prevents bodily harm. I do this with all sorts of stuff that I'm sure were never meant to be ironed... paper, plastic, vinyl... ;)

note: do not use something like your wife's/gf's/mom's shirt as that piece of cotton. use something that you won't mind throwing out if it gets ruined.
status update: Y.T. has not been eaten by zombies. She's busy in the analog world.
JOIN THE ARIZONA CHAPTER!!
desert folks links/tips * ZS Wiki * beginner help & other links * women's PAW health
Anyone can use my Unofficial Welcome Wagon(TM) message, no need to give credit or thanks if you do. :)

User avatar
colinz
* * * * *
Posts: 2602
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:23 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by colinz » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:45 pm

Y.T. wrote: btw, a really simple clue for you non-ironing folks:
just put a piece of wax paper or a thin piece of cotton cloth like a bandana between the iron and the strange thing you want to press/heat. ;) Simple way to prevent ruining the iron and prevents bodily harm. I do this with all sorts of stuff that I'm sure were never meant to be ironed... paper, plastic, vinyl... ;)

note: do not use something like your wife's/gf's/mom's shirt as that piece of cotton. use something that you won't mind throwing out if it gets ruined.
So can we use our wifes'/gf's/mom's shirt or not? :P

That's a good ironing trick. I used to do the same thing to stop my gaberdine uniform pants from going iron shiny. :) A thin tea-towel worked for that, so maybe it will work for the mylar too?

mattro
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:48 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by mattro » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:22 am

FYI, according to LDS, o2 absorbers should not be used when storing sugar. Apparently is causes it to cake or turn to chunks.
My battle rifle has no sporting purpose.

furyalecto
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:27 pm

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by furyalecto » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:43 pm

mattro wrote:FYI, according to LDS, o2 absorbers should not be used when storing sugar. Apparently is causes it to cake or turn to chunks.
Dang. I should have read to the end earlier today for the sugar tip. I just went over the 1st post as a reminder.

User avatar
Space Jockey
* * * * *
Posts: 1917
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:30 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead
Land of the Dead
Dawn of the Dead 2004
Night of the Living Dead
Location: Yakima, WA
Contact:

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by Space Jockey » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:09 pm

If you're like me you're not going to want to eat nothing but 25 pounds of rice when you open that bucket. I mean yeah it's the ZPAW, but I hate having leftovers for 3 days, much less for a week or more (granted I don't eat that much).

Any ideas on the use of vacuum seal bags for food storage? You wouldn't be able to put much in them and it may cost more for the bags and sealer, but you could store individual servings in the bags, they are airtight once sealed, waterproof, and you can store them in plastic buckets just like with mylar bags. We use them all the time here for freezing stuff, but I bet they could be used for things like rice as well. It would also give you a probable estimation of your actual food stores and how much you would consume in a day.
Fortis fortuna adiuvat

Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control.

User avatar
URBAN ASSAULT
* * * * *
Posts: 2931
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 12:51 am

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by URBAN ASSAULT » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:05 pm

Once you crack that 25 pound bucket of storage rice it isn't like it will all go bad. As long as the rice remains dry it should be be fine for quite a long time.

Put a Gamma lid on there once the original lid is off the bucket, and the rice is still stored in an airtight environment but it is much easier to access for daily cooking.

I'm not saying the seal-a-meal is a bad idea, it is a good option in itself, but your newly-opened rice just doesn't go bad so quick that it is a problem, at least for our families food needs.

-urban
"When under imminent Predator attack, try to act all Thalidomide-y till they go away".-me
3%

herbalpagan
* * * * *
Posts: 1656
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:13 am
Location: Western MA
Contact:

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by herbalpagan » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:25 pm

we use the vacuum sealer. I do it because I like to buy in bulk, but there are only two of us. I package in the sealer what we useand then the rest doesn't go bad. It works for us.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/shtfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stormrider
* * * *
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Zombi II

Lots of really good B movies (is that an oxymoron?) whose titles slip my mind

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by Stormrider » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:51 pm

This might be a dumb question, but do you think this would work on coffee beans?

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by phil_in_cs » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:07 pm

Stormrider wrote:This might be a dumb question, but do you think this would work on coffee beans?
If you want to store coffee, store the green (unroasted) beans. You can roast them later, and they keep years without any special treatment
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

Stormrider
* * * *
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Zombi II

Lots of really good B movies (is that an oxymoron?) whose titles slip my mind

Re: Bulk Food Storage

Post by Stormrider » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:10 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
Stormrider wrote:This might be a dumb question, but do you think this would work on coffee beans?
If you want to store coffee, store the green (unroasted) beans. You can roast them later, and they keep years without any special treatment
Thanks for that info, I wouldn't have thought of unroasted beans. What I meant though, was if the method described in this thread could be used on the coffe beans?

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”