will there ever be a need to bug out to a tent?

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Post by MOS19K » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:21 pm

jamoni wrote:
MOS19K wrote: Time management is your biggest enemy when trying to survive, you have to collect water, fire wood, start the fire, purify the water, find food, prepare the food.
Just playing Devil's advocate, but there is a little time savings in building a shelter: You don't have to break it down and take it with you, and you can always come back to it if you are in that area later. Course' you'd have to kick out the new tenants. :)
That's why my shelter is a poncho: I can use it when I don't have time or ability to make a better shelter. I can also use it to waterproof a marginal shelter.
I know you're just showing another possibility but I have to disagree with you. The time it takes to put up and even take down a tent is nothing compared to the time it takes to gather the materials and then construct a shelter. If you are planning on staying put that's another thing all together but I believe we're talking more of a B/O situation than a duration stay. Ponchos are great I have one in my pack and God knows I've spent way to many nights with nothing more than one of those for shelter.

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Post by jamoni » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:36 pm

MOS19K wrote:
jamoni wrote:
MOS19K wrote: Time management is your biggest enemy when trying to survive, you have to collect water, fire wood, start the fire, purify the water, find food, prepare the food.
Just playing Devil's advocate, but there is a little time savings in building a shelter: You don't have to break it down and take it with you, and you can always come back to it if you are in that area later. Course' you'd have to kick out the new tenants. :)
That's why my shelter is a poncho: I can use it when I don't have time or ability to make a better shelter. I can also use it to waterproof a marginal shelter.
I know you're just showing another possibility but I have to disagree with you. The time it takes to put up and even take down a tent is nothing compared to the time it takes to gather the materials and then construct a shelter. If you are planning on staying put that's another thing all together but I believe we're talking more of a B/O situation than a duration stay. Ponchos are great I have one in my pack and God knows I've spent way to many nights with nothing more than one of those for shelter.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that total time one a shelter would be faster, just that if you count the time needed to pack a tent, it's not that much slower. Given a decent site and adequate materials, I could make a comfy brush hut in an hour, if I hustled. I think that's pretty competitive.
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Post by Rush2112 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:40 pm

My take is the best of both worlds. GI MSS

Any other sleeping bag with a Bivvy will do well. Look these babies up on EBay first though. It'll be worth your while. Most sites want 400+ for them but you can often find a like-new one on EBay for about 120.
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Post by G.I. Jarhead » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:22 pm

One thing I've noticed when watching news coverage of evacuations is that hotels and other more conventional types of shelter fill up fast in the areas that people evacuate to. One of my contingency plans for a bugout, weather permitting, are state campgrounds and state forests. In these circumstances a tent is a necessity. I have maps detailing the location of every state campground and state forest with rustic camp sites in Michigan. I've also downloaded information from the state's associated websites on costs, reservations, rules, and features. The cost of a campground is much less than a hotel and in the event of a minor emergency (not the end of the world), a stay at a campground could very well become a nice little vacation for my family. The key for me is to try to find a camp site that would be less crowded, because I'm probably not the only person to come up with this strategy.
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Re: will there ever be a need to bug out to a tent?

Post by GeneralDiscontent » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:06 am

llivne wrote: flood/earthquake/tornado/etc - bug out to your friends/family/public shelter.
Not necessarily - think back to hurricane Katrina. Would you have rather been in the Superdome with 30,000 other refugees, or somewhere outside town in a tent? (Yeah, yeah, I know, the Superdome was a shelter of last resort for people who were trapped, but let's pretend for a minute). Even if most of the horror stories about what happened in the Superdome turned out to be fabrications, I'd still take my chances with the tent over a large-scale shelter.

I keep a 3-man dome tent in the trunk of the car, a bivy in my BOB/camping pack, and a USGI poncho + liner in both mine & my fiancee's BOB's. The dome tent was cheap (free, actually - a promo I got from Marlboro back when I used to smoke, but I would say it's equivalent to a $40 -$50 department store tent), the bivy was cheap (~$20), and the ponchos weigh almost nothing and can make a perfectly adequate shelter with some paracord & improvised pegs/supports. There's no reason not to carry some kind of shelter.

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Post by evil0rphan » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:41 am

Just my 2 cents...

Obviously, a tent is not a long-term solution. However, it does make an excellent short term solution to shelter. In my thinking, the extra 10-15lbs equates to a dry head and butt in most conditions, no (little) bugs, and some degree of privacy. Minor as those seem now, as I sit in my nice climate controlled, carpeted home... in a BO situation, those minor things will have an immense effect on morale for you and anyone in your party. Never underestimate the value of morale in a bad spot, as sometimes that's all that gets you through.

If I can BO to a hotel, well that's great. And that tent wont take much room at all packed up in the corner. However, if there is no room at the inn... I dont plan on sleeping in the manger as it were.

I'd rather advise against brightly colored tents, as they are harder to camo. And in most BO situations I can't really see why you would want to be seen. A good tent, in say OD Green... in a fairly wooded area is going to not only give you physical and emotional shelter... it's also going to have some tactical value as well.

And again, it's temporary shelter. It's for keeping the skypiss off your back until you can find a more permanent solution. :D
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Post by SkullGirl » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:39 am

I just paid $49.99 for a three person Coleman tent at Costco. It comes with a rain vestibule. Sets up quickly. I don't keep it in my car, but that might be a good idea. it doesn't take up that much space.
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Post by PineVole » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:26 am

Raydarkhorse wrote:Also your riot scenario assumes that riots don’t last for long. This assumes the presence of the police but in the PAW there won’t be many and even less equipment. Even the Rodney King riots were not allowed to run their course, once it began to spread steps were take to stop it.
Exactly right. In the PAW you won't be able to rely on police if there are any. You will need to be well armed and on guard if you bug-in. If you bug-out then having shelter, like a tent, will always be a good idea.

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Post by OneManShow » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:08 pm

I have to side with rush I still have most of my gear from when i was in the service,(thanks to inventory error on the part of suppy) and the MSS is the best thing ever totaly warm and dry. In inclment weather grab the poncho and there you go mobile shelter.

Oh and I know someone is going to come up with a in-city-while-bugging-out situation. Gusse what its what I used when were doing relief work in NOLA post katrina. Works fine.
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Post by bcvojak » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:46 pm

This is my bug out folding tent. . .

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I'm too damn old to sleep on the ground! :mrgreen:
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Post by MOS19K » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:06 pm

bcvojak wrote:This is my bug out folding tent. . .

Image

I'm too damn old to sleep on the ground! :mrgreen:
My god!! I don't even want to see the size of the pack you put that in!

I got to the point where I'd like to get a nice pop up trailer. What does your's have a King and Queen size beds? Roughing it is fine come the end of the world but until then I want A/C.

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Post by bcvojak » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:18 pm

It's called a Hybrid camper. Part trailer, part tent. Smaller travel size, lower weight.

It does have AC. :)

It also has a true Queen size bed on each end.

Another Queen size if we put the table down, and a single sleeper (or two small kids) on the folding couch.

Camper folds up really nice into a 20' package. . . But still weighs almost 5,000 lbs which is light for full size campers. We pull it with a 2500HD Suburban.

If your interested in a pop-up, you should go over to RV.net and read up in the Folding Camper section. You'll get the good, bad and ugly about the different brands, features and such. From people who own them, not from some sales dweeb. You'll also find out about what you need to tow safely; how much you should pay; what are the limitation of different types of RVs and a lot more.
Last edited by bcvojak on Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MOS19K » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:22 pm

Thanks for the information Bill.

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Post by Winterzelt » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:41 am

jamoni wrote:
MOS19K wrote:
jamoni wrote:
MOS19K wrote: Time management is your biggest enemy when trying to survive, you have to collect water, fire wood, start the fire, purify the water, find food, prepare the food.
Just playing Devil's advocate, but there is a little time savings in building a shelter: You don't have to break it down and take it with you, and you can always come back to it if you are in that area later. Course' you'd have to kick out the new tenants. :)
That's why my shelter is a poncho: I can use it when I don't have time or ability to make a better shelter. I can also use it to waterproof a marginal shelter.
I know you're just showing another possibility but I have to disagree with you. The time it takes to put up and even take down a tent is nothing compared to the time it takes to gather the materials and then construct a shelter. If you are planning on staying put that's another thing all together but I believe we're talking more of a B/O situation than a duration stay. Ponchos are great I have one in my pack and God knows I've spent way to many nights with nothing more than one of those for shelter.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that total time one a shelter would be faster, just that if you count the time needed to pack a tent, it's not that much slower. Given a decent site and adequate materials, I could make a comfy brush hut in an hour, if I hustled. I think that's pretty competitive.

Well in an hour i`ll set up my tent about 15 times. And that with less possibility to hurt yourself under stress trying to chop branches or other. It`s more silent if you don`t wanna get attention. You can set it up while building a bigger one from wood and stuff.
A poncho is ok for the very minimal but think about areas where there are lot`s of bugs snakes and other creatures that can make you ill very fast. A tent is the perfect solution for a bob cause as said above it`s property, keeps out wind rain and bugs etc., can be set up in minutes without much physical effort (think about being exhausted from a 25 km march to get away from desaster area) and the one i want to have comforts 3 peoples and weights about 5 pounds.

So as you may have guessed... I´ll vote for having a tent in your BoB.
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Post by jamoni » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:33 pm

Winterzelt wrote:
jamoni wrote:
MOS19K wrote:
jamoni wrote: Just playing Devil's advocate, but there is a little time savings in building a shelter: You don't have to break it down and take it with you, and you can always come back to it if you are in that area later. Course' you'd have to kick out the new tenants. :)
That's why my shelter is a poncho: I can use it when I don't have time or ability to make a better shelter. I can also use it to waterproof a marginal shelter.
I know you're just showing another possibility but I have to disagree with you. The time it takes to put up and even take down a tent is nothing compared to the time it takes to gather the materials and then construct a shelter. If you are planning on staying put that's another thing all together but I believe we're talking more of a B/O situation than a duration stay. Ponchos are great I have one in my pack and God knows I've spent way to many nights with nothing more than one of those for shelter.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that total time one a shelter would be faster, just that if you count the time needed to pack a tent, it's not that much slower. Given a decent site and adequate materials, I could make a comfy brush hut in an hour, if I hustled. I think that's pretty competitive.

Well in an hour i`ll set up my tent about 15 times. And that with less possibility to hurt yourself under stress trying to chop branches or other. It`s more silent if you don`t wanna get attention. You can set it up while building a bigger one from wood and stuff.
A poncho is ok for the very minimal but think about areas where there are lot`s of bugs snakes and other creatures that can make you ill very fast. A tent is the perfect solution for a bob cause as said above it`s property, keeps out wind rain and bugs etc., can be set up in minutes without much physical effort (think about being exhausted from a 25 km march to get away from desaster area) and the one i want to have comforts 3 peoples and weights about 5 pounds.

So as you may have guessed... I´ll vote for having a tent in your BoB.
My bag is designed for hauling ass, not comfort. It's set up for "move as fast as you can for three days". That said, in my INCH bag I have a nice tent that will shelter two+gear comfortably.
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.

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Post by Biff » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:43 pm

...
Last edited by Biff on Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by jamoni » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:55 pm

Biff wrote::roll:
:?:
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.

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Post by Biff » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:56 pm

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Post by MOS19K » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:52 am

I personally don't carry a tent in my BOB but I do think that a tent is a good idea. I instead have a tarp/lean-to system that works for me and poncho for nights I can't set up the tarp/lean-to. Just because we don't use a certain item doesn't make that item useless it just means it doesn't meet the needs we require. In some cases an individual might be traveling through areas that don't afford him the opportunity to put up a tent or any type of shelter. In other cases you might be traveling through wilderness where a foreign shelter would be desired. Each of us has reasons for doing things the way we do.

When someone asks for an opinion remember that's all you're getting. Everyone will have one and some might be more valid than others when applied to your situation. Some of us, myself included, tend to take it personally if someone disagrees with us. We're all here to learn from each other and the more opinions we get the more information we have to come to our own conclusions.

As an aside, I try to have the items in my BOB be able to perform more than one function.

My tarp/lean-to are construction grade trash bags, they also serve as emergency rain gear and for constructing solar stills.

My cotton balls are permeated with antibiotic ointment instead of Vaseline. This allows me to use them for fire starting or for quick cleaning of any scratch or cut. (Of course you should still have a first aid kit)

I use 550 cord for any area that requires cordage, including laces, lanyards and grips.

You get the idea, try to get the most out of the items and space you have available.

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Post by jamoni » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:03 pm

Biff wrote:
jamoni wrote: :?:
So, which is it? You don't carry a tent in your BOB because it's so much faster to build a shelter from scratch? Or because you want the high speed BOB?
I'm not sure that I earned that rolly eyes. There's a limited supply of those things, so you should save them for emergencies. :P

I carry a tent in my INCH bag, but not in my BOB.
I don't actually intend to use any shelter if I have to haul ass with my BOB. I'll put my poncho on and sleep sitting up. Works pretty well. But IF I had to build a shelter, I could do so, and it wouldn't be that big of a deal, and I could leave quickly.
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.

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Post by KayGee » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:12 pm

I spent the Easter weekend in a tent. Woke up on Easter Sunday to this:
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I was in my sleeping bag on top of a campbed still wearing about 6 layers of clothes and I was facking freezing. However when I got up in the middle of the night to go to the toilet, it was somehow even colder (I was meant to be doing Wars of the Roses, not Stalingrad!). Lesson learnt? Even if its a 1mm thick layer of canvas its still a barrier against the wind and rain and is far better than plonking down under a hedge and hoping to get to sleep. You wont be getting anywhere soaked through and miserable from the night before.

Lesson number two is that an English March is not a good time to bug out. The zombies/water/fire/commies/french/asteroids can wait until sometime in May at the earliest :wink:

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Post by jamoni » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:08 am

KayGee wrote: Even if its a 1mm thick layer of canvas its still a barrier against the wind and rain and is far better than plonking down under a hedge and hoping to get to sleep. You wont be getting anywhere soaked through and miserable from the night before.
I got plenty of places that way in the Army, and so have millions of other troops. Is it ideal? Nope. But if the emergency you are planning for involves outrunning something really bad and fast, I'm not carrying a tent. To each their own.
However, if you pitch it right, even a simple poncho will shelter you quite nicely from a bad storm.
(I love how I'm the anti-tent posterboy somehow, when I have no less than 5 tents within my sight right now.) :P
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...
squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.

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Post by Jamie » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:18 am

jamoni wrote:(I love how I'm the anti-tent posterboy somehow, when I have no less than 5 tents within my sight right now.) :P
TENT-HATER!!! :evil:







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Post by colinz » Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:46 am

jamoni wrote: Is it ideal? Nope. But if the emergency you are planning for involves outrunning something really bad and fast, I'm not carrying a tent. To each their own.
However, if you pitch it right, even a simple poncho will shelter you quite nicely from a bad storm.
(I love how I'm the anti-tent posterboy somehow, when I have no less than 5 tents within my sight right now.) :P
That statement in bold sums it up in a nutshell, the rest of your quote explains it nicely. :)

I will most likely be carrying a tent in my BOB, a lightweight 2-man Alpine tent, weighs less than 2.5kg (IIRC), but costs over $NZ700. Although I could just use a large piece of Tyvek...
KayGee wrote: However when I got up in the middle of the night to go to the toilet, it was somehow even colder (I was meant to be doing Wars of the Roses, not Stalingrad!).
I think I peed a little! :lol:

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