will there ever be a need to bug out to a tent?

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llivne
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will there ever be a need to bug out to a tent?

Post by llivne » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:21 pm

think about it

flood/earthquake/tornado/etc - bug out to your friends/family/public shelter.
war - you are more likely to get shot at if your inside a tent (even truer considering a lot of the tents around here are military style tents ) then in an house or a public shelter.
virus - living in the woods isn't that far that you'll get out of reach of a virus that is airborn, it might help if the virus is transmitted by touch.
riots - riots don't usually last for more then a few days so it might be safer for you to lock yourself inside your house and wait it out then to venture past the rioters in order to get to the woods.

even in the case of a paw (other then a zpaw, but thats unrealistic) you wont need to move to a tent rather then an house or farm or some kind of structure that is nearby a food and water source in order to survive

discuss away
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Boris
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Post by Boris » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:33 pm

Not to be a dick about grammar, but you should try capitalization. It will help you be taken more seriously on these boards.

As for your discussion, I think having a relatively easy form of shelter available to you if you're in a rural/outdoors environment would be beneficial. There are plenty of parts of the country where shelter is very spread out, and you'd be glad you had something over your head. Also, I wouldn't go barging into every available house you saw because you don't know who or what is in there.

I've seen some great setups on here that I'm very jealous of.

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Post by Jamie » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:34 pm

I disagree...I can envision lots of emergency situations where having a tent would be much better than not having one...

By the same logic, do you really need any guns or food?

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Post by phil_in_cs » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:40 pm

If you're considering public shelter, why worry about the rest? I'm sure the government will take perfect care of those inside the shelters.
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Post by llivne » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:59 pm

nfa wrote:I disagree...I can envision lots of emergency situations where having a tent would be much better than not having one...

By the same logic, do you really need any guns or food?

nfa
care to state one of those??

btw - i also agree that its a good thing to have as an option but i trying to think of a situation where ill really will need to use it and cant think of one
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Post by phil_in_cs » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:01 pm

llivne wrote:
nfa wrote:I disagree...I can envision lots of emergency situations where having a tent would be much better than not having one...

By the same logic, do you really need any guns or food?

nfa
care to state one of those??

btw - i also agree that its a good thing to have as an option but i trying to think of a situation where ill really will need to use it and cant think of one
Its going to take you a couple days until you get where you are going, and its raining... or cold. Or both.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

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Post by llivne » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:04 pm

phil_in_cs wrote:
llivne wrote:
nfa wrote:I disagree...I can envision lots of emergency situations where having a tent would be much better than not having one...

By the same logic, do you really need any guns or food?

nfa
care to state one of those??

btw - i also agree that its a good thing to have as an option but i trying to think of a situation where ill really will need to use it and cant think of one
Its going to take you a couple days until you get where you are going, and its raining... or cold. Or both.
ok got me there it might be of use for the journey, agreed.

but as a long term shelter?
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Post by eugene » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:15 pm

Thats why my bob is more of a camp out in a hotel bag than a live in the wilderness bag. I know I'm not Daniel Boone and can't go live off the land. My Bob is intended to get me to my farm or hotel/motel someplace. Thats why I have things like a scanner, my laptop, etc.

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Post by Kentucky J » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:17 pm

In the PAW, Z or otherwise, there is a large chance that you will be living a nomadic lifestyle for protracted periods of time. That said, you will either be a squatter (and carry that stigma), or you will be a sort of modern day American bedouin (sp?).

I'd much rather be able to provide shelter for myself and mine own via self reliance than having to lean on other people who are likely parasitic themselves.

I'd almost prefer the flexibility of mobile shelter over becoming attached to a single structure whose destruction might bring with it more mental stress than was neccessary in the first place.

With time, the tent could become a temporary home while you build a dugout with some earthworks and maybe a small series of trenches. That might be what I would do if the scenario allowed.

The best part about tents is that they tend to keep bugs out. And I like that.

Just a few points to consider. I'm not an authority by any means on any of this.

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Post by misanthropist » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:27 pm

I will say two things:

1. I can envision lots of scenarios where I could use a tent in bugging out.

2. A tent is not in my bug out gear.


In the event of a bug-out, which incidentally is not likely for me, as I am well set up right where I am and would be more inclined to bug-IN, I would expect to spend a day on the road, getting up to the property that's already set up. Worst case scenario, the roads are hooped and I need to ride a bicycle most of the way. Well, it's true that a tent would be better in those circumstances, but I'm confident in my ability to manage for a week or two without a tent. I do have a silnylon tarp. That's easily enough to manage for the relatively short period of time as I bicycle and/or walk to the BOL.
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Post by Festus Hagen » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:34 pm

Here's two:

Suppose the country is invaded and you decide you want to live off-grid and get out from under the oppressor's thumb. You'd best find a place that is not accessible via motor vehicle, out in the boonies. Make sure to camoflage the tent with tree boughs or whatever- the more colorful the tent, the more work you've got to do. Now reasonably sheltered, you can get busy arranging to feed yourself, construct a more permanent shelter, and annoy the enemy if so inclined.

Suppose your friendly clean local nuclear power plant decides to crap the bed. You have time to load up your car with whatever emergency gear you can take and GTFO, otherwise it's microwave city. Some folks will be living in their cars for a while. I think my tent would be worth it's weight and space in terms of comfort. Heck I could drive up to my parent's place and camp out there, other than my using their bathroom they'd hardly know I was there.

By the way, if it's February, you're within driving range of the Adirondacks, and want to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're nucking futz, I know just the campsite and "if the Good Lord is willin' and the creek don't rise" I'll be right there with ya.
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Post by Famine » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:38 pm

Festus Hagen wrote:By the way, if it's February, you're within driving range of the Adirondacks, and want to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're nucking futz, I know just the campsite and "if the Good Lord is willin' and the creek don't rise" I'll be right there with ya.

I'll meet ya there.

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Post by Raydarkhorse » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:40 pm

llivne
Each one of your statements makes assumptions.
“flood/earthquake/tornado/etc - bug out to your friends/family/public shelter.”
Assumes that your area is the only one hit by whatever disaster. We have been lucky so far in this country we have never had multiple large disasters at one time. One disaster at a time tends to strain FEMA to the breaking point (not even considering their screw ups). If there were two or three disasters of the same magnitude as Katrina, our present system could not cope. In the event of a war on US soil it wont matter what kind of tent you have. Besides the idea then is to have a weapon in your hand and shoot first. Your idea about the virus scenario assumes that distancing yourself from others won’t help at all. In the long run it may prove useless but there is a reason that doctors advise staying away from crowds during flu season it lessens your likely hood of catching the flu. Also your riot scenario assumes that riots don’t last for long. This assumes the presence of the police but in the PAW there won’t be many and even less equipment. Even the Rodney King riots were not allowed to run their course, once it began to spread steps were take to stop it.
“even in the case of a paw (other then a zpaw, but thats unrealistic) you wont need to move to a tent rather then an house or farm or some kind of structure that is nearby a food and water source in order to survive”
Assumes that there is no one around to take it from you. Now all that said I don’t foresee having to live in a tent for more than a few days either but there is a saying about assuming. One thing mistake I notice we all make when making preparations and plans when we are confronted with certain situations we dismiss them out of hand because they don’t easily fit into our preconceived notions of how things are and will be.
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Post by Geardo » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:12 pm

Some thing else to think about. In many places a tent in a camp is afforded the same protections legally as a home. In other words your protected from trespass and can defend yourself as though you where in your own house.

Check ordinances and statutes for your area.

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Post by maetsack » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:52 am

I can agree that it might be limited and in some scenarios it may be lower on your list of priorities, but to absolutely dismiss the value is no different than that thread "Why black gear sucks".

Sure it's not ideal for everything, but then it is rare that anything ever is.

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Post by SamuraiBobX26 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:20 am

I have a small dome tent with my BOB and supplies because I plan on taking it with me. It will keep me out of the rain and keep me and my family from being eaten by bugs. Its small and light weight. And even if I didn't have a tent in my BOB, I have 2 camoflage tarps that make a lovely shelter with some tent stakes and some rope.

I just don't see a reason not to have one if one is bugging out other than it takes up room and adds weight to your pack.
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Post by MOS19K » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:33 am

I've experienced folks who have had to live in tents because their homes where destroyed or damaged to the point of being unsafe for habitation. When Andrew hit South Florida entire cities were wiped out and thousands of homes destroyed. FEMA did not arrive until the 5th day (I could be off a day or two there) and even upon arrival shelters still took time to erect and for the infrastructure prepared to house and care for thousands of people. Now back to the tents. Those that had tents or lean-to were able to remain on their property and protect it from looters. I myself slept in my tent because it was cooler than staying inside the house w/o a/c in August. Others have commented on the their use as temporary shelter while traveling or while a more permanent structure is built. Why wouldn't you want to have a tent at your disposal?

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Post by Festus Hagen » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:55 am

MOS19K wrote: Why wouldn't you want to have a tent at your disposal?
Because of the devastating effect of the $30 expenditure at the Wal-Mart for a usable dome tent? Because of the 10 pounds they weigh?

I'm stumped.

At the NYWCT08, we had everything from an expedition-rated 4 season tent (Nice tent outoforder!) to a nice quality 3 season with full rainfly (NFA's LL Bean) to my 3-4 man Northwest Territories from Wal-Mart (purchased about 15 years ago) and a couple other smaller dome tents that would have looked at home on Wal-Mart's shelves as well.

I'm betting I endured a little more wind than Outoforder2day and NFA (my rainfly only covers the sunroof) but honestly everybody lived through -17F temperatures. I was wishing for some real snowfall but you know what they say... be careful what you wish for :)

My usual tent is a little big to store in my trunk full-time but next time I spot an ultra-small, yet cheap tent I think I'll grab it. Or maybe a bivvy. Thanks for the thought-provoking post.

Here's an example of a totally usable tent for next-to-nothing. It ain't no Wenzel or what have you, but it would work...

Wally-World Tent
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Post by jamoni » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:03 am

Sometimes the shelters are underwater, too.
During the 94 floods, there was a whole tent city in Fenton Missouri. The whole town just moved to high ground and kept on working. Seemed to work out okay for them.
That said, I don't carry a tent in my main BOB. I carry a poncho.
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Post by chitown2k » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:31 pm

Tents are so affordable these days, and most are lightweight enough to keep in a car/truck that I can see why you wouldn't want the option.

I have been looking at some of the ultra light stuff, but I came across a discounted 2 person tent at Target and picked it up to car camp in 2 seasons. It's a very affordable option, I think I paid $25 for it :lol:
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Post by MOS19K » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:12 pm

The wife and I have a large two room tent that even has a screened in porch. Of course this isn't the type of tent you'd use to B/O but it is very comfortable for camping and at home emergencies. In my BOB I don't have a tent I have two extra large construction trash bags. These bags are about 8' long and 4' wide, very thick plastic, designed for construction site garbage and trash. They are very light weight and work great as a ground tarp and as a lean-to or pup tent, fits two and your BOB's. One of my buddies uses a pop tent, it folds up into his BOB and when he needs it he just throws it out and presto it's ready to go, literally 5 seconds.

The point is that surviving is tough enough w/o us making it more difficult by not taking advantage of the products available to us. This doesn't mean we shouldn't know how to make a fire with sticks but it doesn't exclude us from bringing a darn Bic lighter. Same holds true for shelter, yes we could all build rustic shelters but that same time could be put to better use if you have a tent or tarp.

Time management is your biggest enemy when trying to survive, you have to collect water, fire wood, start the fire, purify the water, find food, prepare the food. The list is unending and while you do all this you still have to try and make your destination. I know I went way off topic and I apologize but you get where I'm coming from, don't make things more difficult for yourself.

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Re: will there ever be a need to bug out to a tent?

Post by ironraven » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:25 pm

llivne wrote:think about it

flood/earthquake/tornado/etc - bug out to your friends/family/public shelter.
I have.

When home is a hole in the ground and a pile of debris, as are most other buildings, you'll want a tent. Particularly if it was an earthquake- aftershocks + buildings compromised by the main quake = you have a debris pile.
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Post by Gunny » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:36 pm

I carry a small tent and can think of a hundred different times I might have to use it.

It's small and doesn't take up much room at all, so why not?

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Post by jamoni » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:29 pm

MOS19K wrote: Time management is your biggest enemy when trying to survive, you have to collect water, fire wood, start the fire, purify the water, find food, prepare the food.
Just playing Devil's advocate, but there is a little time savings in building a shelter: You don't have to break it down and take it with you, and you can always come back to it if you are in that area later. Course' you'd have to kick out the new tenants. :)
That's why my shelter is a poncho: I can use it when I don't have time or ability to make a better shelter. I can also use it to waterproof a marginal shelter.
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