Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
MarkTBSc
* * *
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:08 am
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by MarkTBSc » Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:39 am

Very, very nice setup Erik. Now THAT'S prepared in a sensible fashion.
Erik wrote: Believe me, you want to make sure your barrels are exactly where you want them before you fill them with water, because once they're full, they aren't moving anywhere. I can't move 450 pounds. Can you? Once they're full, add 1/4 cup unscented bleach, and you're good to go for a few years of storage.
It's funny you should say that. My second job when I was 21 was in a chemical plant, mixing batches of intumescent goop. One of the constituents of that goop was a thin, watery version of that white glue children use at school. It came in those blue barrels and we had to load them onto the filling rack once every two weeks or so. One guy could do it but it was VERY hard work. Two was easier and involved pivots, broom-handle levers and a modified sack-barrow.

And that was just the Vinamul. I'll leave out the disgusting Revacryl or Chlorinated Paraffin.

Suffice it to say, it's movable alone but not recomended.

Kir:
Those Water-Cooler tanks were my original emergency solution for water at work if there was a disaster. Unforutunately they've since gone over to mains-fed coolers. If I see any of the bottles around I'll be sure to grab them.
Image

User avatar
Monklicous
* *
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:59 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night original
Dawn remake

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Monklicous » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:53 pm

.
Last edited by Monklicous on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
supraneurotoxin wrote: mastering skills like that is akin to pissing your pants in a black suit. it gives you a nice warm feeling, but no one really notices....

User avatar
Monklicous
* *
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:59 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night original
Dawn remake

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Monklicous » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:11 am

.
Last edited by Monklicous on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
supraneurotoxin wrote: mastering skills like that is akin to pissing your pants in a black suit. it gives you a nice warm feeling, but no one really notices....

Erik
* * * * *
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Asheville, NC

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Erik » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:38 am

I don't think it would work any better. The bleach will diffuse nicely until it is even spread out. 'Tis the laws of physics.

User avatar
Charlotte
* *
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:00 am
Location: London

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Charlotte » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:03 am

Hmmm. I've been reading this and contemplating just how screwed I'd be if the water in London went off for a week or two.

I live in a ground floor flat, but I have a garden and I have a large garden shed, that I could store one of these in:

http://dvfuels.co.uk/category.asp?catID=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I left it slightly under-filled to allow for winter expansion if it ever froze (we rarely get truly freezing conditions in London any more) would it be safe to store a 1000 litre container outside?

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by phil_in_cs » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:09 am

Charlotte wrote:If I left it slightly under-filled to allow for winter expansion if it ever froze (we rarely get truly freezing conditions in London any more) would it be safe to store a 1000 litre container outside?
It is not likely rated for outdoors. The issue is UV damage to the plastic, not freezing or anything. Most plastics left in the sun will fall apart or become very brittle after a couple years. As long as you get it protected from the sun you would be ok.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

User avatar
Charlotte
* *
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:00 am
Location: London

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Charlotte » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:12 am

When I said outside, I should have been clearer - outside the house, but inside a wooden shed. Dark, dry, but not heated or insulated.

User avatar
phil_in_cs
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 11424
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: central tx

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by phil_in_cs » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:29 am

that will be fine. Its the UV light from the sun that would be a problem.
Don't confuse a belligerent and aggressive attitude with the strength, training, and conditioning needed to prevail in a fight. How do you know you have the Will To Win, if you don't even have the will to train?

Y.T.
* * * * *
Posts: 4096
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:27 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dead & Breakfast,
Night of the Comet,
Shaun of the Dead,
28 Days Later,
Resident Evil: Extinction,
Planet Terror
and a host of post-apoc/sci-fi/dystopia.
...4 words for you: deaf. amish. zombie killer.
...3 more words: machine. gun. leg.

"Idiocracy: it's not just a movie, people. It's a warning."
-- said by a quite awesome friend
(yes, it qualifies as a zombie movie)
Location: Arizona, where the plants try to kill you and the sun tries to boil you alive

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Y.T. » Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:31 pm

Inspired by Erik's setup, I realized that for the space and price of several 7gal Aquatainers I could just store a 55gallon drum on the porch (shaded and covered). I have some questions though:

1) Filling
Using a garden hose seems to be the only reasonable way to fill a 55 gallon drum. However, I've read in several places that you should not drink from a garden hose. The chemicals and materials used to keep garden hoses from mildewing and rotting leach into the water and make it unsafe to drink. How do those of you with large drums deal with this? Is bleach treatment enough to make the water safely drinkable?

2) Open Top vs. Closed Top
Any thoughts on the differences and benefits of one over the other? I've also seen some listed as Open Top Lever Lock Ring, but haven't been able to figure out what that really means.

3) Elevation
How high do you need to elevate the container for outside storage (in a shaded area, covered roof, open on 2 sides)?
status update: Y.T. has not been eaten by zombies. She's busy in the analog world.
JOIN THE ARIZONA CHAPTER!!
desert folks links/tips * ZS Wiki * beginner help & other links * women's PAW health
Anyone can use my Unofficial Welcome Wagon(TM) message, no need to give credit or thanks if you do. :)

User avatar
Rock2Fox
* * * *
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:28 am
Location: Western Oklahoma

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Rock2Fox » Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:45 pm

I would go with the closed lid (and have) - it is easy to attach a hand pump (~$12 on Ebay) to the small bung on top. Make sure you don't grab a white/ translucent plastic that lets light in. While sunlight damages plastic (see Phil's post above) it also provides a quasi petri dish environment for things in the water. Blue is best (or black) b/c they don't allow very much light in. This is especially important for outdoor storage.

I didn't elevate mine and have had no problems. What were you anticipating? Or stated differently, why did you want to raise the container?

I used a hose. It may be true that things leech into the water, but it is likely no more hazardous than the soap chemicals that coat all things coming out of the dishwasher (or the antibiotics in our meat, the miracle grow in the garden, the pesticides in that aerosol can of Raid) - so I choose not to think about it. I don't regularly drink the water out of my storage supply, and if I ever do need it, the mildly carcinogenic properties of things that came from the hose are going to be the least of my worries.
"The bombing begins in five minutes." -- Ronald Reagan

A.C.E.
* * * *
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:32 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Resident Evil
Location: Bureaucratic people's republic of Sweden

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by A.C.E. » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:12 am

Y.T. wrote: 2) Open Top vs. Closed Top
Any thoughts on the differences and benefits of one over the other? I've also seen some listed as Open Top Lever Lock Ring, but haven't been able to figure out what that really means.
It means that the lid has no thread. It is simply placed over the barrel and kept in place by a metal ring that is put around the rim of the lid and locks when a lever is pulled. AFAIK this is mostly used on metal barrels.
My FAK
Cold Weather
Propane Forge
Image
ZS #0091

I'm Swedish, there is no known cure.
sealegs wrote:I make it my business to never be caught w. my pants down, and IF I am, then the size of my junk and the fortitude of my stones will give me the initiative by sheer intimidation alone. :lol:

User avatar
MarkTBSc
* * *
Posts: 673
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:08 am
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact:

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by MarkTBSc » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:36 am

Y.T. wrote:1) Filling
Using a garden hose seems to be the only reasonable way to fill a 55 gallon drum. However, I've read in several places that you should not drink from a garden hose. The chemicals and materials used to keep garden hoses from mildewing and rotting leach into the water and make it unsafe to drink. How do those of you with large drums deal with this? Is bleach treatment enough to make the water safely drinkable?
That's an interesting one... I could understand not drinking from a brand-new hose or not drinking water that's been standing in a hose for a length of time... But not using a huse for passing drinking water at all? Leeching is usually a process that takes time. If you're filling a drum then you've got a gallon of water per minute passing through that hose and if chemicals were going to leech out in that time then they'd be in tiny quantities. If it was a bad problem then all the chemicals would be gone within a few months of buying your hose in the first place.

I'd agree with not using garden hosepipe as replacement for proper, mains quality, PVC water pipe for long term solutions. Running a hose from the house to the other end of the garden and then using it for drinks when you have a barbeque. Fine. But I think using a length of clean hose - having washed it out first with detergent - for filling 55gal. drums for future use would be fine. I think it's long-term use they're trying to discourage.
Image

nobodyspecial
*
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:10 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all of them.
Location: Valders, Wisconsin

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by nobodyspecial » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:07 am

This is just the thread ive been looking for. I was worried about long term water storage in plastics, but these type of drums seem to be the trick.

Good work Erik.
Doomed is a country who draws too broad a gap between our scholars and our warriors.
We'll have our thinking done by cowards and our fighting done by fools. -Unknown

EDC + PSK http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=43457" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
GHB http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=43469" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BOB

Y.T.
* * * * *
Posts: 4096
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:27 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dead & Breakfast,
Night of the Comet,
Shaun of the Dead,
28 Days Later,
Resident Evil: Extinction,
Planet Terror
and a host of post-apoc/sci-fi/dystopia.
...4 words for you: deaf. amish. zombie killer.
...3 more words: machine. gun. leg.

"Idiocracy: it's not just a movie, people. It's a warning."
-- said by a quite awesome friend
(yes, it qualifies as a zombie movie)
Location: Arizona, where the plants try to kill you and the sun tries to boil you alive

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Y.T. » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:07 pm

re: using water from your garden hose for drinking

There are a TON of articles that all say it's not safe, including exposure to lead. I've included a few below. Garden hoses were not meant to be used for drinking, they were intended for watering lawns and cleaning cars. Recently there has been a new group of "drink safe" hoses that are FDA approved, but most hoses aren't, especially standard cheap hoses. One of those "drink safe" hoses may be necessary for water drum filling.

Is it safe to drink water from my garden hose? (from the EPA site on Safe Water)
  • The water is safe, but a standard vinyl garden hose has substances in it to keep it flexible. These chemicals, which may get into the water as it goes through the hose, are not good for you. In addition, the outside thread openings at the end could be covered with germs.
Is Your Garden Hose Safe? Think Before you Drink!
Dangerous Lead Levels Found in Some Garden Hoses
Last edited by Y.T. on Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
status update: Y.T. has not been eaten by zombies. She's busy in the analog world.
JOIN THE ARIZONA CHAPTER!!
desert folks links/tips * ZS Wiki * beginner help & other links * women's PAW health
Anyone can use my Unofficial Welcome Wagon(TM) message, no need to give credit or thanks if you do. :)

Y.T.
* * * * *
Posts: 4096
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:27 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dead & Breakfast,
Night of the Comet,
Shaun of the Dead,
28 Days Later,
Resident Evil: Extinction,
Planet Terror
and a host of post-apoc/sci-fi/dystopia.
...4 words for you: deaf. amish. zombie killer.
...3 more words: machine. gun. leg.

"Idiocracy: it's not just a movie, people. It's a warning."
-- said by a quite awesome friend
(yes, it qualifies as a zombie movie)
Location: Arizona, where the plants try to kill you and the sun tries to boil you alive

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Y.T. » Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:15 pm

re: elevation
Rock2Fox wrote:I didn't elevate mine and have had no problems. What were you anticipating? Or stated differently, why did you want to raise the container?
several others in this thread have mentioned elevation too. :) raising the container off the ground protects it from ground spills seeping to the bottom of the container and contaminates being absorbed through the plastic. Things like gasoline, paint, cleaners, turpentine.

re: open/closed top
Thanks for the info. I guess I'm not understanding what the terms mean. I would think "open top" would be the open with the bung holes for a pump, you know... a top with openings. Many of the plastic drums I saw had "open top lever lock ring". How do a closed top and an open top attach and function differently?
status update: Y.T. has not been eaten by zombies. She's busy in the analog world.
JOIN THE ARIZONA CHAPTER!!
desert folks links/tips * ZS Wiki * beginner help & other links * women's PAW health
Anyone can use my Unofficial Welcome Wagon(TM) message, no need to give credit or thanks if you do. :)

A.C.E.
* * * *
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:32 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Resident Evil
Location: Bureaucratic people's republic of Sweden

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by A.C.E. » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:17 pm

re: Open/Closed top.
A closed top barrel, the lid and the barrel are one piece. The only opening is a small, usually threaded cap on the top. On an open top barrel the lid can be removed, allowing much better access to the contents as well as easier cleaning.
My FAK
Cold Weather
Propane Forge
Image
ZS #0091

I'm Swedish, there is no known cure.
sealegs wrote:I make it my business to never be caught w. my pants down, and IF I am, then the size of my junk and the fortitude of my stones will give me the initiative by sheer intimidation alone. :lol:

User avatar
Monklicous
* *
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:59 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night original
Dawn remake

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Monklicous » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:57 pm

.
Last edited by Monklicous on Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
supraneurotoxin wrote: mastering skills like that is akin to pissing your pants in a black suit. it gives you a nice warm feeling, but no one really notices....

Squidi
* * *
Posts: 372
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:19 pm
Location: Arkansas
Contact:

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Squidi » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:19 am

Newspapers have those blue barrels that they have something delivered in and then they have to pay to dispose of the barrels. I can't remember what they use them for, might be something horribly toxic. I don't think it was.

Might be worth making friends with somebody in production at your local newspaper.

User avatar
leadpulaski
* * *
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:53 am
Location: North Idaho

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by leadpulaski » Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:04 pm

Great topic! I have been looking for a water topic of this caliber.

I use to sell water (don't laugh) water coolers to be more precise. IIRC We sold 5 gal jugs for around $7 and a $1 deposit on the barrels. If one went to Costco and bought a water cooler for $150 (for a good unit) and bought a few jugs one would be made in the shade for awhile. Living in a duplex this may be the route I end up going, not sure yet though.

When we buy our house I plan to plumb in a spare water heater and a water catch as was previously discussed the size will depend on our available storage space. This would keep the water fresher IMHO. I also plan on setting up a water filter JIC.

Right now we have some 1 gal jugs (arrowhead) and a couple 2-liters, these are hard to come by for us because we don't drink soda. We also have some filters and a healthy local water supply. In each car we keep a couple 1-1/2 liter bottles, I would like to find somewhere that I can find these by the case to keep in the cars and because they would be more mobile than larger jugs. Aquatainers are the next step but I can't find any locally, even at WalMart :?

User avatar
leadpulaski
* * *
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:53 am
Location: North Idaho

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by leadpulaski » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:49 am

http://www.ntotank.com/400gafrstdot.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

what do you guys think of these?

A.C.E.
* * * *
Posts: 931
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:32 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Resident Evil
Location: Bureaucratic people's republic of Sweden

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by A.C.E. » Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:07 pm

leadpulaski wrote:http://www.ntotank.com/400gafrstdot.html

what do you guys think of these?
It definetly is a large tank. At 189lbs. it's not going to be moved easily even empty.

400gallons is heavy as hell. You better have a really solid floor to put this on. Like a concrete floor on ground level.

If you do get one, make sure that the water have somewhere to go if it leaks out. 400 gallons would cause damages for a small fortune. Also, if it springs a leak, all your water is going bye-bye. As opposed to having multiple smaller containers where if one leaks, the others will have some water. All your eggs in one basket and all that.
My FAK
Cold Weather
Propane Forge
Image
ZS #0091

I'm Swedish, there is no known cure.
sealegs wrote:I make it my business to never be caught w. my pants down, and IF I am, then the size of my junk and the fortitude of my stones will give me the initiative by sheer intimidation alone. :lol:

rpc
* * *
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:18 pm

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by rpc » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:19 pm

If you are concerned about drinking the water from the garden hose, you can buy a hose designed for drinking water, which is available anyplace that sells RV supplies (including Wal-Mart).

Having said that, I routinely use the normal home garden hose to fill the tank in our camper, and nobody has died yet.

As someone else pointed out, it's probably not a good idea to drink the water that's been standing in the hose. But when that's flushed out, I don't think there's a huge risk from water running through the hose.

When I was a kid, kids drank out of the garden hose all the time, with no apparent ill effects. I think it's just another case of greater general squeemishness nowadays.

And when plumbers install pipes in houses, they do not first wash those pipes with detergent. I don't think that step is necessary with a garden hose, either.

Y.T.
* * * * *
Posts: 4096
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:27 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dead & Breakfast,
Night of the Comet,
Shaun of the Dead,
28 Days Later,
Resident Evil: Extinction,
Planet Terror
and a host of post-apoc/sci-fi/dystopia.
...4 words for you: deaf. amish. zombie killer.
...3 more words: machine. gun. leg.

"Idiocracy: it's not just a movie, people. It's a warning."
-- said by a quite awesome friend
(yes, it qualifies as a zombie movie)
Location: Arizona, where the plants try to kill you and the sun tries to boil you alive

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Y.T. » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:35 pm

rpc wrote:And when plumbers install pipes in houses, they do not first wash those pipes with detergent. I don't think that step is necessary with a garden hose, either.
if you look at the articles I linked (or do a google search) you'll see it's not because the hose is dirty, it's because the hose is treated with chemicals and lead -- both of which leach into the water as the hose is used. A sip or two from the hose probably isn't going to provide you with lead poisoning. But several 30-55 gallon drums filled with those chemicals and lead is a different matter. For all the effort we make to filter and purify our water source it just seems backwards to fill our home reserves with toxic chemicals. :) Hence, my mentioning the "drink safe" hoses.
status update: Y.T. has not been eaten by zombies. She's busy in the analog world.
JOIN THE ARIZONA CHAPTER!!
desert folks links/tips * ZS Wiki * beginner help & other links * women's PAW health
Anyone can use my Unofficial Welcome Wagon(TM) message, no need to give credit or thanks if you do. :)

rpc
* * *
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:18 pm

Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by rpc » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:53 pm

Well, again, I routinely fill an 18 gallon tank with the garden hose, and nobody has died yet from drinking the water therein.

The main potential contaminant does appear to be lead, which is used in some (but not all) garden hoses. Again, if water is allowed to sit in the hose (especially if it's warm), then there probably is the potential for non-trivial quantities of this lead to leech into the water. But if the hose is flushed out first (by letting it run until the contents have emptied out), then the quantity of any chemical is going to be trivially small.

Again, if one feels concerned about this risk, it is possible to pay a few dollars extra and get a hose with a sticker saying that it's safe to drink from.

Another poster suggested first washing the hose with detergent. I don't think that's necessary, but as you pointed out, that's a separate issue from whether the hose contains lead.

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”