Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by LBB » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:45 pm

CiggsWar wrote: I was playing with the concept, not really sure this would work, I'm not a plumber or anything lol.
So in this concept it using 3 55 gallon drums 1 is cut in half.
In the first one it the holding hopper and has a fine SS mesh can be removed and cleaned. flows into 2
there is light sand in 2 on the top tan and medium or coarse in the brown layered in mixes. The grey is pebble stone in layers and pick up tube in the bottom. I was thinking of a cone cylinder for the fine so it was sloped and it could be lifted out to be cleaned and fresh fine sand replaced flows into 3 has a restriction in the pipe aiding in speed pressure.
3 water flows over active charcoal I added a small tube to flow back to 2 A weir drip system to aid in circulation when the system not in demand or gets low in water than the water goes into 4, for storage and is pumped with a hand pump to the kitchen.
2&3 have vents on the top for aireration
I can suspend 1&3 have 2&4 on the floor.
If you see better changes let me know. I might have to reserch what size piping to use and lengths constructed from pcv.
Got idea, and with the water running back from number 3 to umber 2 will make sure that it's always filled with water and no mold can form when it starts drying out.

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by marktaff » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:06 am

docdredd wrote:55 gal of water at 8 pounds per gallon would weigh 440 pounds plus the weight of the container.

Thats excessive for most structurally sound lodgings.
That's is exactly why I store my 55 gal drums on concrete. I did the math and checked out typical building codes and realized wooden floor joists likely wouldn't hold the load without damage.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by CiggsWar » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:53 pm

My set up will be the tool room that's basically the storage room it was an add on the the basement, has a good soild concrete floor, built into the side of a hill, above that is a sun room mud room type, it does have some heat but not like main part of the house. with some insulation a new door and small heater it would be cozy. I usally hide in there in the summer as it's cooler and no kids allowed. :)
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Gump023 » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:19 am

Maybe this was already answered here or somewhere else, but I've missed it.

How do you keep the water from going stagnant? I've kept Nalgene bottles in my vehicle before with filtered water and within 2 weeks, the water has a horrible odor.

Am I missing something here? Because I was thinking the water had to be treated for long term storage unless it was sealed especially for long term storage.

Regardless, it's a very nice setup.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by funkychicken » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:27 pm

Nice job Erik. I have one 55 gallon drum and I just got a small pallet from work I am going to put it on this afternoon. The drum is full so I might have some trouble getting it on the pallet. we will see. I found a guy on Craigslist.org selling drums. So for finding drums in your area that might be the place to do so.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Erik » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:18 am

A quarter cup of bleach will disinfect water for years. As I moved into a new house, I emptied the barrels and refilled them again. Just before I emptied the barrels for moving, I tasted the water and it was just fine. There were no signs of bacterial infestation (water not cloudy, sides of the barrel not slimy). While it doesn't hurt to change your water out every year, this water was three years old.

For your Nalgene cup, a single drop of unscented bleach will do the trick.
Gump023 wrote:Maybe this was already answered here or somewhere else, but I've missed it.

How do you keep the water from going stagnant? I've kept Nalgene bottles in my vehicle before with filtered water and within 2 weeks, the water has a horrible odor.

Am I missing something here? Because I was thinking the water had to be treated for long term storage unless it was sealed especially for long term storage.

Regardless, it's a very nice setup.

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Erik » Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:20 am

funkychicken wrote:Nice job Erik. I have one 55 gallon drum and I just got a small pallet from work I am going to put it on this afternoon. The drum is full so I might have some trouble getting it on the pallet. we will see. I found a guy on Craigslist.org selling drums. So for finding drums in your area that might be the place to do so.
I have had no trouble finding the barrels locally on the Asheville Craigslist for around ten dollars. The local free "merchandise" newspaper, the Iwanna (http://www.iwanna.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) also usually has barrels for eight to ten dollars.

Here's all you'll ever need for $10 each.
http://asheville.craigslist.org/grd/2675462147.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More:
http://asheville.craigslist.org/grd/2656218626.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by funkychicken » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:57 pm

I put the barrel on the pallet yesterday. I had to stick a 2x4 under the middle of the pallet to make sure the barrel was supported enough. By the way, daylight savings is on the 6th. So that is a good a time to change out the water in your barrels. If your tap water is chlorinated you don't have to add bleach and it should be good for six months. Lots of people use daylight savings to change out stored drinking water.(Batteries in smoke detectors is a good idea too) I know what I'm doing this sunday. :D
Erik wrote:
funkychicken wrote:Nice job Erik. I have one 55 gallon drum and I just got a small pallet from work I am going to put it on this afternoon. The drum is full so I might have some trouble getting it on the pallet. we will see. I found a guy on Craigslist.org selling drums. So for finding drums in your area that might be the place to do so.
I have had no trouble finding the barrels locally on the Asheville Craigslist for around ten dollars. The local free "merchandise" newspaper, the Iwanna (http://www.iwanna.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) also usually has barrels for eight to ten dollars.

Here's all you'll ever need for $10 each.
http://asheville.craigslist.org/grd/2675462147.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More:
http://asheville.craigslist.org/grd/2656218626.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am Funkychicken, and I approve this message.

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by GlockASP » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:13 am

Wow 4 years and still going strong. Good job Erik.

I can't ever find 55's for $10 around here they want $30-50. :cry:
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Gimpy » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:28 pm

I have a few 15 gallon barrels that I get from work. They held pool chlorine. I am no chemist, but I figured they would be safe to use if I washed them out. I haven't used them for drinking water storage because I wasn't sure. Sodium hydrochlorite is the chemical in the barrels, and a web search says it's safe if diluted. I would like to use these because they can be moved with a hand truck if need be. I keep two 30 gallon drums in the basement for "utility water", and these would work well for an addition to my setup. And if anyone close would like a few, I can around one or two a month for free, just let me know.

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Aim2Maim » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:53 pm

Anyone still looking for barrels check out a local university if you live close to one. Most big university and even good size junior colleges have an ecology dept, get ahold of them and ask if they have any. The one here sells me them for $8 a piece.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:52 am

I'm not familiar with EVERY garden hose out there, obviously, but from my own experience as a plumber, and a stint as an RV mechanic, I wouldn't worry about your garden hose for drinking water. Anything in it that MIGHT leach into your water is going to be in such minute amounts that you'll never see any health problems from it- EVER. As to lead content, you probably breathe more of it than the hose can ever deliver, just from car exhausts. Most lead content in municipal water comes from old lead piping bringing the water from the main, into the house, and is easy to check on. Another source is old solder joints, where the solder contained lead- which is why the 95/5 solder is now code (antimony and tin, instead of lead/tin) Sometimes, silver is used, which is also safe. when I worked at the RV dealership, we sold hoses- they came from the hardware store, and they just doubled the price.
The reason water hoses are labeled- IF labeled at all- as not for potable use, is to prevent the hillbilly engineering attempts of plumbing one's own home with nothing but garden hose- it would work, but the soft sides of the hoses wouldn't last long against a mouse chewing it. It's NOT because of chemical leaching.

Water, once sterile, if kept sealed, NEVER goes bad. Think about this for a moment- once sealed away from outside influence, what's going to go bad? Is your water being stored in such poor condition that it can spontaneously spawn new life? All on it's own? I doubt it, and it that IS the case, you shouldn't be drinking it NOW, let alone come the PAW. This is why we use bleach- specifically, the chlorine IN the bleach, to treat the water for storage. That stuff kills EVERYTHING. It is, to waterborne nasties, like Darth Maul on a bad day. Nothing escapes it's death-touch. Then, like Darth Maul, it eventually just goes away, as it breaks down into water and table salt- and in such a minute concentration that you can't taste it, unless you went nuts with the bleach to start with.

Food grade plastic is food grade because it has no chemicals in it that CAN leach into your water. Unless you store your barrels in some toxic chemical dump, simply putting the barrels on a couple of 2X4's set flat should be all you need to keep the barrels isolated from anything getting into the plastic, or the water getting out- just make sure they have no nails or screws in them poking up.

Water weighs 8.3 pounds per gallon, or 1 kilogram per liter. Simple multiplication can give you your water weight, and then just add in the weight of the container(s). 55 X 8.3 = 456.5 pounds, plus your barrel weight. That's about the weight, in about the same amount of floor space, as a fully stocked refrigerator- which means that most apartments can handle the weight on the floor of one or two barrels, spread around the place. I wouldn't concentrate them in one place on your typical wood framed floor.

Many steel barrels marked food grade have a second barrel inside them, of thin food grade plastic, which could never stand on it's own once filled- it's just too thin. Look carefully at the bungs on the top, to see if there's a curled lip of plastic near the threads- that's your tip-off. Steel barrels can be rust-proofed at hoome pretty effectively. turn them upside down, and wire brush any existing rust off, then paint with an oil based enamel, like Rustoleum spray paint. Let that dry, then brush a good heavy coat of rubber dip onto the entire bottom, bottom lip, and down the side past where the lip is. Let that dry, and then PLACE, do not roll or drag- the barrel where it's new home is to be, and start filling it. Rubber dip will hold up to more than a thin coat of paint will, and remains flexible, so thermal expansion doesn't hurt it. It also bonds nicely to fresh paint.

Water is arguably the most important thing in life, if life is to exist. However, it's also quite simple, and I feel that we place so much importance on it that we tend to over complicate it. Fill, treat, seal, and that stuff will outlive you and still be usable. The only thing that screws with that simple process is when something causes an outside influence to take over, like a leak, or improper treatment. It's water, not the primordial soup of a newly formed Earth.

Leakage happens. Even the best built products have the occasional screw up. For that reason, I prefer several smaller storage vessels over one huge megalith of a tank, because Mr. Murphy, being who he is, will invariably create the leak, if there is one, as low in the tank as possible. Gravity takes over from there, and next thing you know, your tank is on empty. There's a saying in plumbing- "there is no such thing as a SMALL leak". Think about it, and you'll see the wisdom in it.

With all the other stuff out there with the potential to kill us, water treatment shouldn't be such an overwhelming concern that we ignore the rest of it. It's important, not complicated.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by zombiepreparation » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:24 pm

KeeblerNinjaClan wrote:I'm also amazed at how much water it takes to wash dishes. Even when trying to be frugal about it with shortages in mind.
I have been pondering this exact same thing.
raptor wrote:Yes but remember that water can be reused for bathing, washing clothes and then for toilet flushing or irrigation. Let the water settle between uses so the crud can filter to the bottom of the container.

The goal is to reuse the same water as much as possible to minimize consumption.
I did not know that. Seriously, it never occurred to me. Doh! :?

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by williaty » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:35 pm

zombiepreparation wrote:
KeeblerNinjaClan wrote:I'm also amazed at how much water it takes to wash dishes. Even when trying to be frugal about it with shortages in mind.
I have been pondering this exact same thing.
raptor wrote:Yes but remember that water can be reused for bathing, washing clothes and then for toilet flushing or irrigation. Let the water settle between uses so the crud can filter to the bottom of the container.

The goal is to reuse the same water as much as possible to minimize consumption.
I did not know that. Seriously, it never occurred to me. Doh! :?
There's a big difference between crud that grows and crud that doesn't grow, though. Water you've washed your hands in after working in the field? Let that shit settle and re-use it for more handwashing. However, I would not be as comfortable taking the dishwashing water and letting it stand for 8 hours to settle. Control of infectious diseases and just disease in general is going to be a much bigger deal in that sort of situation. One thing, possibly the only thing, that Rawles gets right is that stupid piddly nuisance bugs that are no big deal now are potentially fatal in the PAW. Getting pukey or getting the trots is 8 hours of minor inconvenience now. It could easily kill you and those that depend on you in the PAW.

I got hit with a nasty stomach thing last year. Severe puking to the point that my vasal-vagel response made me pass out if I let me head get above my heart. I never understood until that how people used to die from stomach crap. When I was only kept conscious by IV saline (severe dehydration) and IV anti-nausea drugs for 3 days, then anti-nausea pills for a week, it kind of struck home how something like that kills you without modern medicine.

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:56 pm

Here's an experiment to mess around with for you.
Save a soup can's worth of used dish water, and let it stand in the kitchen. Check it every day to see what and when it grows. Keep in mind, this is water with SOAP in it. Not the most hospitable environment for growing fuzzies. You'll be both shocked and amazed at what you get going in it.

Hand washing water can be used, as can dishwashing water, for toilet flushing, especially on a septic system. By the time you put it to this use, you've "worn out" the soap/detergent's ability to kill off germs, so it isn't like dropping a penicillin bomb on your septic. The thing is, you need to FLUSH that water right away, or the toilet tank will become a mold farm- it's indoors, with no incoming fresh water to keep it cool, and it's dark inside- warm and dark is mold's friend. To help avoid the potential of growing penicillin in the toilet tank, use a 5 gallon bucket to do the flushing.

Before setting this up, remove your toilet tank lid, and READ. The inside of the tank will tell you how much water it's designed to use per flush. Make markings on your waste water bucket at levels that match- modern US toilets are required to use 1.3 gallons or 3 liters per flush as a MAXIMUM. They'll work with more, but going with less may or may not work out well. The maximum use ratings is to limit water consumption- the only time more water would be a problem is if the toilet itself is clogged. For my own family, the rule in a no water scenario will be to flush after each poop. Urine-only visits can just sit until someone actually needs to flush per the rule. "If it's yellow, let it mellow- if it's brown, flush it down" is actually a good idea.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by zombiepreparation » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:56 pm

williaty wrote:
zombiepreparation wrote:
KeeblerNinjaClan wrote:I'm also amazed at how much water it takes to wash dishes. Even when trying to be frugal about it with shortages in mind.
I have been pondering this exact same thing.
raptor wrote:Yes but remember that water can be reused for bathing, washing clothes and then for toilet flushing or irrigation. Let the water settle between uses so the crud can filter to the bottom of the container.

The goal is to reuse the same water as much as possible to minimize consumption.
I did not know that. Seriously, it never occurred to me. Doh! :?
There's a big difference between crud that grows and crud that doesn't grow, though. Water you've washed your hands in after working in the field? Let that shit settle and re-use it for more handwashing. However, I would not be as comfortable taking the dishwashing water and letting it stand for 8 hours to settle. Control of infectious diseases and just disease in general is going to be a much bigger deal in that sort of situation. One thing, possibly the only thing, that Rawles gets right is that stupid piddly nuisance bugs that are no big deal now are potentially fatal in the PAW. Getting pukey or getting the trots is 8 hours of minor inconvenience now. It could easily kill you and those that depend on you in the PAW.

I got hit with a nasty stomach thing last year. Severe puking to the point that my vasal-vagel response made me pass out if I let me head get above my heart. I never understood until that how people used to die from stomach crap. When I was only kept conscious by IV saline (severe dehydration) and IV anti-nausea drugs for 3 days, then anti-nausea pills for a week, it kind of struck home how something like that kills you without modern medicine.
Oh lord. There is just so much I don't know. That can potentially get me in some real bad trouble too! Thanks for this reply.

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Erik » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:32 pm

GlockASP wrote:Wow 4 years and still going strong. Good job Erik.
What can I say? :D

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:53 pm

zombiepreparation wrote: There's a big difference between crud that grows and crud that doesn't grow, though. Water you've washed your hands in after working in the field? Let that shit settle and re-use it for more handwashing. However, I would not be as comfortable taking the dishwashing water and letting it stand for 8 hours to settle. Control of infectious diseases and just disease in general is going to be a much bigger deal in that sort of situation. One thing, possibly the only thing, that Rawles gets right is that stupid piddly nuisance bugs that are no big deal now are potentially fatal in the PAW. Getting pukey or getting the trots is 8 hours of minor inconvenience now. It could easily kill you and those that depend on you in the PAW.

I got hit with a nasty stomach thing last year. Severe puking to the point that my vasal-vagel response made me pass out if I let me head get above my heart. I never understood until that how people used to die from stomach crap. When I was only kept conscious by IV saline (severe dehydration) and IV anti-nausea drugs for 3 days, then anti-nausea pills for a week, it kind of struck home how something like that kills you without modern medicine.
That's the thing with water-borne pathogens- if you don't treat the water to kill them, they'll give you illnesses that can quickly dehydrate you. The obvious treatment for dehydration, is to drink more water... You can imagine the vicious cycle that starts there. I firmly believe that a good part of your water preps should be anti-diarreahal meds and something that can kill the little buggers inside you, without killing yourself in the process. Unfortunately, my medical knowledge doesn't cover just what would be good for that, but I plan on finding out!
Wee beasties aren't the only thing that can contaminate your water, either- chemicals can do the same things, or worse (I don't even want to imagine that one), and may or may not evaporate out of the water when boiled. I'm stocking up on pool chlorine, Ph strips, and litmus paper this year to cover what my HS chem classes have taught me to do. The Ph and litmus paper strips are for testing the water quality on a chemical level, and the pool chlorine (1" tablets) will allow me to make my own chlorine bleach as I need it, instead of hoping the shelf life of stored bleach hasn't run out, and it can store for many years longer than I'll be around to use it.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by jethroUSMC » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:23 pm

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
zombiepreparation wrote: There's a big difference between crud that grows and crud that doesn't grow, though. Water you've washed your hands in after working in the field? Let that shit settle and re-use it for more handwashing. However, I would not be as comfortable taking the dishwashing water and letting it stand for 8 hours to settle. Control of infectious diseases and just disease in general is going to be a much bigger deal in that sort of situation. One thing, possibly the only thing, that Rawles gets right is that stupid piddly nuisance bugs that are no big deal now are potentially fatal in the PAW. Getting pukey or getting the trots is 8 hours of minor inconvenience now. It could easily kill you and those that depend on you in the PAW.

I got hit with a nasty stomach thing last year. Severe puking to the point that my vasal-vagel response made me pass out if I let me head get above my heart. I never understood until that how people used to die from stomach crap. When I was only kept conscious by IV saline (severe dehydration) and IV anti-nausea drugs for 3 days, then anti-nausea pills for a week, it kind of struck home how something like that kills you without modern medicine.
That's the thing with water-borne pathogens- if you don't treat the water to kill them, they'll give you illnesses that can quickly dehydrate you. The obvious treatment for dehydration, is to drink more water... You can imagine the vicious cycle that starts there. I firmly believe that a good part of your water preps should be anti-diarreahal meds and something that can kill the little buggers inside you, without killing yourself in the process. Unfortunately, my medical knowledge doesn't cover just what would be good for that, but I plan on finding out!
Wee beasties aren't the only thing that can contaminate your water, either- chemicals can do the same things, or worse (I don't even want to imagine that one), and may or may not evaporate out of the water when boiled. I'm stocking up on pool chlorine, Ph strips, and litmus paper this year to cover what my HS chem classes have taught me to do. The Ph and litmus paper strips are for testing the water quality on a chemical level, and the pool chlorine (1" tablets) will allow me to make my own chlorine bleach as I need it, instead of hoping the shelf life of stored bleach hasn't run out, and it can store for many years longer than I'll be around to use it.
Anti Diahhrea meds pose another issue....The reason you have the squirts is to get rid of the bad stuff inside of you, trapping it in should only be done to regain mobility, slow down dehydration for as brief of a period as possible and then allow the cycle to finish and hopefully get some antibiotics to kill whatever caused it in the first place.

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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by DrGonzo » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:46 am

Ok, here's my setup that I just upgraded today. In the past I've had 5-6 flats of bottled water, several individual gallons, and refillable jugs for camping, fishing, etc. Last year I picked up two 13 gallon food grade barrels from a surplus store. They used to contain Diet Dr. Pepper syrup. I cleaned them out the best that could, but they still retained the Dr. Pepper smell. I rotated them out yesterday after one year of storage, really just to give them another cleaning for the smell. The water was drinkable, just tasted a little funny. A gallon of vinegar and baking soda later...still smells like Dr. Pepper. Oh well.

I picked up three 55 gallon drums yesterday from a friend who was moving and couldn't keep them. He included a second bung wrench, siphon pump and RV water hose, so now I have backups. I also found a pallet that I cut in half lengthwise to make a stable platform. After rinsing, cleaning, draining, refilling and bleaching all day, here is the result. 200+ gallons of potable water, not including the water heater.

The two 13 gallon Dr. Pepper barrels
Image

Three 55 gallon barrels, with double sets of siphon pumps, bung wrenches and RV hoses.
Image

Each barrel labeled so I'll know when to check for water quality, and how much bleach I used. That way I can adjust the amount in the future if need be.
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Re: Erik's Upgraded Drinking Water Storage w/Pics

Post by Erik » Thu May 09, 2013 8:17 pm

How many people do you have living in your home? If you have two, this might last two months if you're *really* careful. It looks great!

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