Bugging Out to Wal-Mart, Costco, Sams Club: No!

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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Re: Bugging Out to Wal-Mart, Costco, Sams Club: No!

Post by ZombieGranny » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:11 pm

Oh well, it was a fun thread for 40 some-odd pages. :(
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Re: Bugging Out to Wal-Mart, Costco, Sams Club: No!

Post by The Highwayman » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:50 pm

ZombieGranny wrote:Oh well, it was a fun thread for 40 some-odd pages. :(

I agree ZGranny. This "dead pool" shit needs to be in Off Topic, then eventually the Graveyard....IMO.
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Re: Bugging Out to Wal-Mart, Costco, Sams Club: No!

Post by Oneswunk » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:28 pm

I kind of agree, tho I stand by my pick.
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Re: Bugging Out to Wal-Mart, Costco, Sams Club: No!

Post by CLEAR CUT » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:41 pm

Jeriah wrote:Here, then, is my answer to the fundamental issue presented by this thread. My answer is a challenge.

There are two kinds of people here on Zombie Squad: those considering bugging out to/planning on stopping by a big box store (Mall Wart et al.) in the event of a disaster or the end of the world as we know it.

If You Are Considering Bugging Out To Wal-Mart:

If you are the kind of person considering treating your local major retail outlet as your bug-out location, fortress, destination, or even as a fueling-up point on the way out of town in a natural disaster, here is my challenge to you: Try it.

You can effectively simulate what a store will be like by visiting that store on the next Black Friday. Black Friday, 2009, will be Friday, November 27th, 2009. Mark your calendars. You have an assignment for this day.

Make a list of essential survival supplies for which you would go to Wal-Mart (etc.). You are free to check in advance what a given location carries. You may map their location in the store. Pretend you're planning a post-disaster raid. Make a detailed list of everything you think you need as far as preps are concerned. Feel free to post what you have, ask for suggestions, check out other people's BOB's and bug-in stashes, etc., to get ideas about what you need. Check prices and locations in the store. Have a shopping list. If you want, make a map of the store, with the location of what you need, so you can get your stuff as efficiently as possible. Trust me, this will come in handy.

Check the opening hours for that Wal-Mart etc. If you can, get there before the store opens on Friday the 27th. If not, whatever. Show up when you can, BUT IT MUST BE ON THAT DAY. Friday, November 27th, 2009.

Your challenge is to take a shopping cart and your list, and get every item on your list, and fill your cart. Get to the register, check out, get out to your car, and drive home. TIME YOURSELF. See how long it takes you to 1., find everything you need, 2., check out, and 3., leave the store. This is vital information in your survival planning.

If you fail, if you are deterred by the crowds, if the store is out of what you need, if it doesn't work...then know that it will be even worse, in the early stages of the PAW. Know that you can cross bugging out to Wal-Mart off your list of good ideas...because it isn't one.

If, on the other hand, you succeed...congratulations. You bought the supplies you need to survive. Now you're prepared and there's no need to bug out to Wal-Mart in the PAW. :wink:


If You Are Not Considering Bugging Out To Wal-Mart:

Let's start a pool. What Wal-Mart location is going to have a fatality this coming Black Friday? The past two years, at least, have had one; I don't know the records before that but I know they've happened before. We can each offer up an item of survival goods, and each claim a Wal-Mart location. This might help: http://www.walmart.com/storeLocator/ca_storefinder.do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, each person picks a location, and if someone picks the location where a fatality occurs, we all mail the stuff we ponied up to that person. If there are no fatalities, we all breathe a sigh of relief and go back to our normal lives. If there are multiple fatalities at different locations, we use some kind of heuristic to split the loot.

I'm not entirely kidding about this but it may be in poor taste to actually do it. Um...opinions?
Okay, this post was okay up to the part in red. Then it went downhill real fast. You've been here long enough to know better. What were you thinking? Starting a pool about fatalities at a Walmart?! This is unacceptable. Consider this an official warning and your next infraction will result in you being given Probation.

Don't try to weasel out of it either because you knew what you were doing by saying this:
Jeriah wrote:I'm not entirely kidding about this but it may be in poor taste to actually do it.
Bad Taste? Hmmmm...Ya think?! I'm going to run this by the other mods and you may even get put on Probation just for this alone.

It's late and I'm going to lock this one down for now pending review. I'll deal with the rest of you who jumped on the bandwagon tomorrow.

[Thread Locked Pending Review]
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Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by ryan112ryan » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:41 pm

So we have hashed out that sam's club, costco, the mall, walmart or other big box is probably not a good idea. If you disagree, to bad :lol:

What do you all think about bugging out to one of these places if they are:
  • Has yet to open or close to being finished but still under construction
  • Has been closed recently (think of a circuit city situation)
  • Is one of those malls that almost no one ever goes and most stores are empty


The typical arguments are that people will flock to them because they normally flock to them, in this case it wouldn't be the case.

They are hard to secure, if its under construction, there is lots of materials to fortify.

What do you think? yea or ney?

I should put this out there, I personally am not in favor of it, but in a real pinch (its night time, my home is over run and my BOL inaccessible or over run) I might toy with the idea
Last edited by ryan112ryan on Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by TheGunslinger » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:45 pm

Nay.

It's still massive, has a lot of entrances and exits and there's nothing there.

It's still someone else's property, too.

It loses the large groups of people, but it won't be easy to defend.
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by dukman » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:46 pm

Still NAY. When I was a mall ninja I thought they would be cool. But they are 1) hard to fortify, 2) too open with no concealment inside, 3) too large for heating to be really effective, 4) too much echo, noises easily heard, 5) No place to grow your own, 6) Rooftops are way to vulnerable, 7) Lack off-grid water, 8) usually too close to other "still open" type businesses, 9) people will still think about going there as they are big shelters
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by Murph » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:48 pm

HAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAH

We got another one!
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by phalanx » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:49 pm

Meh.

Why go someplace that has nothing when you could work to make your home secure and well stocked? New construction does indeed have materials around, but if the SHTF do you really want a hammer in your hand, pounding nails?

I don't think it's the way to go. Stock plenty of food and water and keep your ear to the ground.
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by FanaticalModerate » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:49 pm

I have to give you props for trying. Courageous foolhardiness has its place. :)
But the issue isn't just whether there will be large crowds, or whether it's physically securable.

The remaining issue is that it doesn't belong to you, and the resultant prospect of trespassing, looting construction materials, and conceivably being inhospitable to the actual owners, if they should appear.

Maybe re-launch this in "What Would You Do?" as "What if you inherited an empty/under-construction shopping mall 48 hour before the ZPAW began?"

Best of luck.
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by mantis » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:55 pm

Here's a simple test to determine whether or not it's a good idea to bug out to X location?

1) Do you own it or have a legal right to it or do you have permission of the owner to be there?
2) Is it a well hidden out of the way place that others are unlikely to go to?
3) Will you have been able to stock it with YOUR (not stolen or scavenged) supplies and equipment BEFORE the disaster?
4) Could you secure the location and essentially become invisible there?

If you can't answer YES to all four of those questions, forget it. Most people's "brilliant" ideas for bug out locations fall down on number 1 and/or number 2.

In reality, why do you think you could secure and stock a yet to open Wal-Mart any better than you could secure and stock your own home? What makes you think that dozens, maybe hundreds of others wouldn't have thought of the same thing - do you intend to fight them for it? Do you intend to use force to keep those people away? Remember, prepping means PREPARING NOW, not coming up with schemes on how you'll prepare AFTER a disaster has taken place.

BAD IDEA.
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by thelung187 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:58 pm

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by Murph » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:01 pm

Yup, what he said. ^^
Does your BOB at least have: water, basic tools, fire, food, first-aid kit, and shelter?
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by liberty45 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:46 pm

I think someone is taking the Discovery series "The Colony" a little bit too seriously :mrgreen:

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by flyingredgoat » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:24 pm

Paging Lord Rahl, paging Lord Rahl.

:lol:

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by airballrad » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:28 pm

I get what you're trying to say, OP. But I think about 90% of the original Walmart thread scenario still applies, and what benefits there are simply don't outweigh the downsides.

Also, you can't turn a site meme back into a viable option for discussion when it's been shredded as much as this one has. :lol:

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by DemonLlama » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:51 pm

Can we pleeeeeease reopen the walmart thread now? It's been months. Can't we just delete the last couple pages of "bad" posts and call it good?
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by Kabong30 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:58 pm

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by gangsta99 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:43 pm

But, but the Homeland Security guy on The Colony said that when TSHTF that any place and any supplies are fair game. Property rights no longer matter man. If DHS says so it must be truez!!!


:twisted:


I wanna bug out to a Strip Club and fortify and stock it up real good. With the strippers still inside. Who is with me??
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by Kelvar » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:45 pm

mantis wrote:Here's a simple test to determine whether or not it's a good idea to bug out to X location?

1) Do you own it or have a legal right to it or do you have permission of the owner to be there?
2) Is it a well hidden out of the way place that others are unlikely to go to?
3) Will you have been able to stock it with YOUR (not stolen or scavenged) supplies and equipment BEFORE the disaster?
4) Could you secure the location and essentially become invisible there?

If you can't answer YES to all four of those questions, forget it. Most people's "brilliant" ideas for bug out locations fall down on number 1 and/or number 2.

In reality, why do you think you could secure and stock a yet to open Wal-Mart any better than you could secure and stock your own home? What makes you think that dozens, maybe hundreds of others wouldn't have thought of the same thing - do you intend to fight them for it? Do you intend to use force to keep those people away? Remember, prepping means PREPARING NOW, not coming up with schemes on how you'll prepare AFTER a disaster has taken place.

BAD IDEA.
+1

Although I think a lot of these plans also fall down on number 3. Including this one.

Planning to trespass someplace you can't stock ahead of time isn't a plan. It is what people without a real plan would do.
The very fact that this requires trespassing seems to violate the rules of this fine community.

Therefore all I will say is: Welp, here I am..
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by Heartless51 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:51 pm

I for one think its a great idea and YOU should definately go for it.


Less competition for me.

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by Deschain » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:29 pm

Lemme splain something, son:

I've worked on Costcos in every stage of development in Canada. Here's the points I have to forward:

1. The walls are cinderblock/sheetmetal in most places. Meaning, anyone who can stand on a three-foot stepladder can get in with a pair of tinsnips. The walls are just barely that tough.

2. As a general rule, the electric work is slipshod at best. I've seen one Costco that has decent work done. That was Dartmouth, NS. What're the odds yours burns down around your ears on account of the contractors cutting corners?

3. The 'resources' in under-development Costcos don't really include food. Pharmacy is usually stocked with the basics, though. In hindsight, is it worth the risk for a bottle of Tylenol and two bottles of shark cartilage?

4. Food is delivered last.

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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by kiwilrdg » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:09 am

Same as any other oversized abandoned building. Minimal shelter, maximum visibility, magnet for crackheads and other undesireables. If you want a place to score, shoot-up, or to service a john is one thing, if you want a place to safely settle I would say no.
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Re: Bugging out to a abandoned or yet to open Mall/Sams/Costco

Post by Lucretius » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:13 am

+1 for bravery.
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