Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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Stercutus
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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by Stercutus » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:56 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:15 am
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:43 am
If you want to shift gears from stopping the casual burglar (locked ingress routes, dog, alarm system) to stopping the ravening hordes of undead you are going to have to either invest some serious money in upgrades or employ guards or both. Right now the labor market does not make guards cost effective.

Several dogs however might make a bit of difference. I do know a guy who is fairly well off as a lawyer and he picks up dogs at the shelter and trains them himself as guard dogs. Dogs will be killed by home invaders but they do give you time to prepare. Large dogs are also notoriously hard to kill.
What sort of breeds & costs would someone be looking at for guard dogs?
With Guard Dogs German Shepards are the gold standard when it comes to providing trained security. The various Border Collies are also great. Just about any dog is trainable with the right approach, some are just better suited. Our English Mastiff was tough to train and shit for a "watch dog" but... as a "guard dog"? Lets just say everyone was on best behavior around the missus when she had the dog around, which was all the time because it hurt his feelings to be more than 10 feet away from her at any time.

Just to be clear; a watch dog is a working dog trained to watch your property whether you are there or not. They don't get in the house much, if ever, unless it is part of their job. A guard dog OTOH, is for personal protection.
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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by drop bear » Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:00 am

It would be kind of fun to just have all the things that would make life hell for someone like a swat team.

I would think upward sloping corridors you had to crawl through would be super irritating.

Maybe a circular house so that you do the have to split in two or always be worried about rooms you have cleared being reocupied.

Even that cage from lock stock as you kick the door in and find yourself suddenly trapped.

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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by darmstrong » Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:28 am

Stercutus wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:56 pm
With Guard Dogs German Shepards are the gold standard when it comes to providing trained security. The various Border Collies are also great. Just about any dog is trainable with the right approach, some are just better suited. Our English Mastiff was tough to train and shit for a "watch dog" but... as a "guard dog"? Lets just say everyone was on best behavior around the missus when she had the dog around, which was all the time because it hurt his feelings to be more than 10 feet away from her at any time.

Just to be clear; a watch dog is a working dog trained to watch your property whether you are there or not. They don't get in the house much, if ever, unless it is part of their job. A guard dog OTOH, is for personal protection.
There are plenty of big dogs that make good guard dogs. I own a German Shepherd and a Dogo Argentino. Neither are trained guard dogs or protection dogs. But plenty of dogs will guard or defend without training.

1. German Shepherd - They are a gold standard for protection dogs. I find without training they tend to be a little fearful and bite out of fear. Depending on the situation that can be acceptable, but can also be like a ticking time bomb.
2. Rottweiler - I had a world class breeder who I knew who had 4 Rottweilers. Her dogs were fearless and bold. None were trained for protection, but I guarantee they would protect when needed. A few of her pups were trained in protection.
3. Fila Brasileiro - A friend had one. It was SUPER protective of his family. It generally had to be kenneled when company was over. Plus the large size made it formidable.
4. Dogo Argentino - Most of the Dogos I've seen, including my own would do an adequate job in protection. They are big athletic dogs. I find they had strong prey drives and are tenacious once they bite (you can see what they do to hogs).
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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by flybynight » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:45 am

darmstrong wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:28 am
Stercutus wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:56 pm
With Guard Dogs German Shepards are the gold standard when it comes to providing trained security. The various Border Collies are also great. Just about any dog is trainable with the right approach, some are just better suited. Our English Mastiff was tough to train and shit for a "watch dog" but... as a "guard dog"? Lets just say everyone was on best behavior around the missus when she had the dog around, which was all the time because it hurt his feelings to be more than 10 feet away from her at any time.

Just to be clear; a watch dog is a working dog trained to watch your property whether you are there or not. They don't get in the house much, if ever, unless it is part of their job. A guard dog OTOH, is for personal protection.
There are plenty of big dogs that make good guard dogs. I own a German Shepherd and a Dogo Argentino. Neither are trained guard dogs or protection dogs. But plenty of dogs will guard or defend without training.

1. German Shepherd - They are a gold standard for protection dogs. I find without training they tend to be a little fearful and bite out of fear. Depending on the situation that can be acceptable, but can also be like a ticking time bomb.
2. Rottweiler - I had a world class breeder who I knew who had 4 Rottweilers. Her dogs were fearless and bold. None were trained for protection, but I guarantee they would protect when needed. A few of her pups were trained in protection.
3. Fila Brasileiro - A friend had one. It was SUPER protective of his family. It generally had to be kenneled when company was over. Plus the large size made it formidable.
4. Dogo Argentino - Most of the Dogos I've seen, including my own would do an adequate job in protection. They are big athletic dogs. I find they had strong prey drives and are tenacious once they bite (you can see what they do to hogs).
Don't forget Presa Canario
Presa Canario is a large-sized molosser dog, bred for tending livestock. Having a robust, muscular built alongside a well-proportioned body,
Versatile in temperament, it is a great companion but a fierce protector, which in turn makes it a perfect house pet.
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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by PistolPete » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:50 am

Yeah, lots of breeds that can make good security dogs. Akita and Anatolian Shepard come to mind as well. Keep in mind that the biggest investment in a working dog is the training time- you can buy the top pedigree dog and if you don't spend the time in initial and ongoing training then it's not going to be terribly helpful. Police dogs go through hundreds of hours of training, and some wash out. Picking the right breed is just one of the steps.

Almost all breeds of dogs can be trained to alert on disturbances. Advanced notice of trespass may be the most valuable aspect of having a dog and just about any breed or size of dog can manage that without the overhead of having a trained protective animal.
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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by MacWa77ace » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:03 pm

There's a couple more classes of dog to consider aren't there? Alarm and deterrent.

I had a miniature schnauzer which was a great alarm dog. He could hear a mouse fart at 100m and would let us know if he thought it was important. Then the big dogs would chime in as the deterrent. A team effort.
But my big dogs are just deterrent dogs which is the 4th class. Bad guys don't know whether they are watch or guard dogs so they just stay away after seeing or hearing them. They look scary if they see them, especially with their hackles up and sound scary with their big dog barking/growling. But IRL I don't want them near invaders. They can go hide, that's fine with me and i won't hold it against them.

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You can buy an electronic alarm/deterrent dog also, its just a speaker that barks if the doorbell rings etc. No food or water required.
For example: https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Technolog ... ics&sr=1-9
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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by casro » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:30 am

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:38 pm

But for me, I would want to it to look normal. If it looks like a fortress, anyone with I'll intent would treat it as such (better plans, better weapons, bigger force). I'd want a "gray man" home for most situations.
I've built a home thinking about defense from day one. This was indeed my approach.

Externally it looks like a typical villa. Angular roof, regular windows on the 2nd floor, french doors are windows on the lower floor, a door, a basement. I have a big garden in front and a long yard in the back as well.

The french doors are actually steel frames. They have 7 large steel bolts in each frame (14 total) deep inside concrete walls. Whey they are closed I have steel latches up in the top frame and down the floor as well. In each door, 4 steel latches in total. The locking mechanism has 12 pins and uses a multi-point key manufacture by US company Mult-T-lock.

The doors get layered with a thin wooden film to look like a regular door afterwards.

I have Z wave based motion detection sensors looking at each door. I have a ring floodlight cam detecting motion outside. The house in a gated condominium with high walls and electrical fence. I'm enabling Z-Wave automation to have sort of emergency scene where all internal lights are instantly turned off and external on.

I guess I'm good. :D

My house looks normal and much simpler than those of my neighbors. They have fancier and more modern looking like designs with large glass panels. They usually keep doors and windows open. Good for me :D

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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by BullOnParade » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:59 am

http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... =6&t=58410

There's some ZS gold from the before.

Shared this one with a friend who I was talking with about hardening my apartment before things get much worse.
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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by lailr » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:56 pm

PistolPete wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:50 am
Yeah, lots of breeds that can make good security dogs. Akita and Anatolian Shepard come to mind as well. Keep in mind that the biggest investment in a working dog is the training time- you can buy the top pedigree dog and if you don't spend the time in initial and ongoing training then it's not going to be terribly helpful. Police dogs go through hundreds of hours of training, and some wash out. Picking the right breed is just one of the steps.

Almost all breeds of dogs can be trained to alert on disturbances. Advanced notice of trespass may be the most valuable aspect of having a dog and just about any breed or size of dog can manage that without the overhead of having a trained protective animal.
Not to mention, doing upkeep training fairly regularly

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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by lailr » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:00 pm

MacWa77ace wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:03 pm
There's a couple more classes of dog to consider aren't there? Alarm and deterrent.

I had a miniature schnauzer which was a great alarm dog. He could hear a mouse fart at 100m and would let us know if he thought it was important. Then the big dogs would chime in as the deterrent. A team effort.
But my big dogs are just deterrent dogs which is the 4th class. Bad guys don't know whether they are watch or guard dogs so they just stay away after seeing or hearing them. They look scary if they see them, especially with their hackles up and sound scary with their big dog barking/growling. But IRL I don't want them near invaders. They can go hide, that's fine with me and i won't hold it against them.

Image

You can buy an electronic alarm/deterrent dog also, its just a speaker that barks if the doorbell rings etc. No food or water required.
For example: https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Technolog ... ics&sr=1-9
My Lab's probably don't have a bite in them....I KNOW one doesn't. But they'll sure let me know someone is on property...which is useful in and of itself. The big baby mentioned above is mostly deaf, arthritic, and old....and when it's her time, I will probably replace her with a German Shepard.....But as good a dog as she's been to me and my family, I feel like it's my responsibility to make her golden years as comfortable as possible....and introducing a hyper young pup does not seem as condusive to that

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Re: Designing a Structure for a Defensive Stand

Post by boskone » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:33 pm

Somewhat relevant, I'd forgotten that Colin Furze has a bunker in his back yard.

Apparently it cost as much as a "nice family saloon". Based on the price of Toyotas at the local Toyota lot, that's up to $50k.

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