Where There are No Police

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Stercutus
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Where There are No Police

Post by Stercutus » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:57 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-sma ... spartandhp

So many things going on here.

So many lessons to be learned.
For people in Cave Junction, a community of nearly 2,000 people near the rainy, forested California border, that means no law enforcement officers patrol the streets at night. The city doesn’t have its own police force, and deputies from the understaffed Josephine County Sheriff’s Office only patrol the area during daytime hours on weekdays, according to the Oregonian. Placing a call to 911 at night can mean waiting 45 minutes or more for someone to show up, and the area has experienced robberies and thefts tied to the local legal marijuana-growing industry.
So criminals moved-in in force with no police around. Shocking. This is my shocked face: :|
So, last month, members of the Cave Junction City Council voted unanimously to try a new experiment in policing: Installing security cameras that will be monitored by a volunteer citizen patrol.
Better than nothing, sounds promising... wait.. they are putting cameras everywhere?...
:roll:
The private, resident-led group, CJ Patrol, already conducts regular nighttime patrols in the city. Rebecca Patton, Cave Junction’s city recorder, recently told Jefferson Public Radio that the volunteers can identify “hardcore criminals” just by looking at them. “They can identify them by the way that they dress, because they have a certain apparel that they wear all the time, or the way they walk,” she told the station. “Sometimes they carry things all the time, it could be something as simple as a skateboard. They have learned how to identify these people very, very quickly, then they know how to respond.”
Oh boy, carrying a skateboard and dressing funny now makes you a hard core criminal? They can tell criminals by the way they walk? What the deuce is going on here?
Civil rights violation incoming in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 …," the Oregon Justice Resource Center wrote on Twitter.
And how... more tomfoolery and ballyhoo at the link.
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woodsghost
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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by woodsghost » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:36 pm

I expect to see more of this, but without the cameras, in neighborhoods all over America. Starting with towns in Maryland and Illinois.

Just my predictions.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by boskone » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:35 pm

woodsghost wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:36 pm
I expect to see more of this, but without the cameras, in neighborhoods all over America. Starting with towns in Maryland and Illinois.

Just my predictions.
Why MA and IL, particularly?

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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by MPMalloy » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:24 am

boskone wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:35 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:36 pm
I expect to see more of this, but without the cameras, in neighborhoods all over America. Starting with towns in Maryland and Illinois.

Just my predictions.
Why MA and IL, particularly?
:?:

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woodsghost
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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by woodsghost » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:48 am

boskone wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:35 pm
woodsghost wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:36 pm
I expect to see more of this, but without the cameras, in neighborhoods all over America. Starting with towns in Maryland and Illinois.

Just my predictions.
Why MA and IL, particularly?
Basically, "politics." There are neighborhoods with very testy relationships with the police. What I've read is police are then reluctant to really put their lives on the line or get involved with any ongoing problems. Oregon and Washington both have had problems with their police published in national publications too.

The most vocal responses from police that I have read come from Maryland. With a "if you don't want us around, we won't come out and respond to occuring incidents. We will wait till things are over and then come out and clean up." I don't know how things have actually gone, I have just read responses from police, but sometimes words and actions don't match up and many police really do want to help their community.

So I see neighborhoods in the future losing support from police but for political reasons rather than financial, as talked about in the article. Policing and being policed is a 2 way relationship. One cannot complain all the time about the quality of policing and then wonder why the police have stopped showing up to calls. When police do stop showing up, or have 45 minute response times and the general neighborhood doesn't cooperate with police anyway, one has to figure out what one will do on ones own.

Edit:

I just remembered a conversation with a co-worker. She says she is afraid to report any suspicious activity anymore because she is afraid of winding up on national news and being labeled a "racist." This sounds to me like "witness intimidation." But what do I know? I suspect we are going to see a gradual reduction in the reporting of crimes and an increase in the number of victims of crimes due to reduced pre-crime contact with LE. But this is merely my suspicion.

In short, if communities stop reporting crimes to police, the "world without police" effect is the same as actually getting rid of them. Maybe not 100% the same, but similar enough.

The OP is referencing a community which cannot afford police. But I'm seeing communities which reject police and are non-cooperative. The effects are the same. And communities will experience the consequences of their preferences. Life is NOT without consequences.
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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Stercutus
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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by Stercutus » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:39 pm

One cannot complain all the time about the quality of policing and then wonder why the police have stopped showing up to calls.
Sure they can. If a failure in logic has brought one to this situation there is no reason to think that logic will suddenly poke it's head out and make an appearance. I will point out though that most of the time the people doing the complaining are not the same people making both complaints.

As the article alludes to, criminals tend to gravitate to areas where they are unlikely to encounter police resistance to their criminal activity.
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raptor
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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by raptor » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:04 pm

I live in a metro area where the local LEO basically is non-functional.

So I feel for these folks.

The last time I called the NOPD they did not bother to get out of the car to take a report.
The situation has improved though in that instead of waiting 45 + minutes (or perhaps days) it only took them 15 minutes to show up and not take the report. :?

The locals have taken to installing cameras and the city has encouraged citizen reporting of crime and use of the "Crime Cameras" to prevent crime. So how does that work?
Actually quite well you get to see the mass shooting that occurred on Canal Street (the major/key) widest street in the CBD that occurred last weekend. :shock:



So NOLA has turned crime into a spectator sport.
The cause of this is way too political to discuss here but IMO it is the wave of the future...at least until (if/when) comm2on sense becomes a bit more common.

CCTV cameras in my experience do nothing to deter or prevent a crime(s). At best they document it ...at best...at worst the action occurs in an inevitable blind spot or the camera lens is dirty or perp says "It was not me" and since the camera does show the exact moment in 1080 HD he gets off without charges or gets bailed out of jail.

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flybynight
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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by flybynight » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:25 pm

raptor wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:04 pm
I live in a metro area where the local LEO basically is non-functional.

So I feel for these folks.

The last time I called the NOPD they did not bother to get out of the car to take a report.
The situation has improved though in that instead of waiting 45 + minutes (or perhaps days) it only took them 15 minutes to show up and not take the report. :?

The locals have taken to installing cameras and the city has encouraged citizen reporting of crime and use of the "Crime Cameras" to prevent crime. So how does that work?
Actually quite well you get to see the mass shooting that occurred on Canal Street (the major/key) widest street in the CBD that occurred last weekend. :shock:



So NOLA has turned crime into a spectator sport.
The cause of this is way too political to discuss here but IMO it is the wave of the future...at least until (if/when) common sense becomes a bit more common.

CCTV in my experience do nothing to deter or prevent a crime(s). At best they document it ...at best...at worst the action occurs in an inevitable blind spot or the camera lens is dirty or perp says "It was not me" and since the camera does show the exact moment in 1080 HD he gets off without charges or gets bailed out of jail.
Wow. I feel safer. Do you feel safer? I feel safer if you feel safer. It's safer … isn't it?
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woodsghost
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Re: Where There are No Police

Post by woodsghost » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:40 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:39 pm
One cannot complain all the time about the quality of policing and then wonder why the police have stopped showing up to calls.
Sure they can. If a failure in logic has brought one to this situation there is no reason to think that logic will suddenly poke it's head out and make an appearance. I will point out though that most of the time the people doing the complaining are not the same people making both complaints.

As the article alludes to, criminals tend to gravitate to areas where they are unlikely to encounter police resistance to their criminal activity.
Ah! I suppose you mean there is a difference in attitudes between "perpetrators" and "victims." Yes, I suppose.

And I'm a huge fan of the "broken windows" philosophy of policing. Stay on top of the little stuff and the big stuff does not build up. It may be unpopular and seem "petty" but the evidence I see is when police stay on top of all the small stuff, big criminals don't have time/space to grow.

This also assumes a criminal justice system which is dedicated to holding all perpetrators accountable.

:?
*Remember: I'm just a guy on the internet :)
*Don't go to stupid places with stupid people & do stupid things.
*Be courteous. Look normal. Be in bed by 10'clock.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” -Bilbo Baggins.

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