Seattle is Dying

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

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Seattle is Dying

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:38 am

This hour long video details Seattle dipping in to WROL scenario. The murder rate in Seattle has suffered an astonishing turn around as well although this is not discussed. Once one of the nations' lowest it climbed 20% last year and will likely climb by the same amount this year.

The police are quitting in droves despite being the highest paid department in the state. They are offering a $16K signing bonus and came up short over 50 officers last year. The video does a good job of explaining why but left out a few things such as the outright disregard for which the mayor holds the police.

This is a good piece of journalism but it is loaded with political issues. The results are all excellent things to be aware of and look for when the dinner starts to slide off the plate in your area.


https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Halfapint » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:40 pm

As someone who lives here the states they used are for the “Seattle area” not Seattle it goes as far south as 16 miles both and south of Seattle. To cities like SeaTac, tukilia, federal way, Everett, etc.

The “news” group that produced this is known for having manditory fluff prices that apeal to the area around Seattle that’s anti Seattle.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Stercutus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:02 pm

That could be, although ABC News is not known for being particularly opposed to the left. The huge rise in property crime and the police leaving in droves as well as having homeless drug addicts living everywhere on the streets are all real things though. King County now has the third largest homeless population in the US and it is growing about 20% a year.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Halfapint » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:26 pm

That is absolutely true. But I’ll guarantee you go talk to the homeless there, over half have been shipped up from out of state and another 10% shipped from within the state. I lived in the ID/Chinatown district not far from a few homeless shelters and assistance places. I saw busses with Nevada, Oregon, and as far away as Florida plates roll up off load and drive away. The homeless guys I got to know were all shipped from other states Nevada was the big one. 2 guys I talked to regularaly were Nevada natives. Got busted for sleeping where they shouldn’t, thrown in jail then given the choice to stay or leave, if they left they got a bus ticket to Seattle and $20.

The police are another story. I won’t get into it due politics, but they’ve been under federal ovsrsight since 2000, I believe they’ve gone through more than a dozen police chiefs and their union head has been caught in some legal issues and associating with questionable groups.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by NT2C » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:40 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:26 pm
That is absolutely true. But I’ll guarantee you go talk to the homeless there, over half have been shipped up from out of state and another 10% shipped from within the state. I lived in the ID/Chinatown district not far from a few homeless shelters and assistance places. I saw busses with Nevada, Oregon, and as far away as Florida plates roll up off load and drive away. The homeless guys I got to know were all shipped from other states Nevada was the big one. 2 guys I talked to regularaly were Nevada natives. Got busted for sleeping where they shouldn’t, thrown in jail then given the choice to stay or leave, if they left they got a bus ticket to Seattle and $20.

The police are another story. I won’t get into it due politics, but they’ve been under federal ovsrsight since 2000, I believe they’ve gone through more than a dozen police chiefs and their union head has been caught in some legal issues and associating with questionable groups.
Not saying anything against your experiences but, when it comes to buses that are part of a fleet (rentals, leasing, etc.) the plates are usually from where the company has their corporate HQ and not from where the vehicle might actually be used. U-Haul trucks are good examples of this.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Halfapint » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:43 pm

NT2C wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:40 pm
Not saying anything against your experiences but, when it comes to buses that are part of a fleet (rentals, leasing, etc.) the plates are usually from where the company has their corporate HQ and not from where the vehicle might actually be used. U-Haul trucks are good examples of this.
I agree, there’s no way to tell truely except to ask. But in my talkings, it’s very much the reality.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:35 am

Stercutus wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:38 am
This hour long video details Seattle dipping in to WROL scenario. The murder rate in Seattle has suffered an astonishing turn around as well although this is not discussed. Once one of the nations' lowest it climbed 20% last year and will likely climb by the same amount this year.

The police are quitting in droves despite being the highest paid department in the state. They are offering a $16K signing bonus and came up short over 50 officers last year. The video does a good job of explaining why but left out a few things such as the outright disregard for which the mayor holds the police.

This is a good piece of journalism but it is loaded with political issues. The results are all excellent things to be aware of and look for when the dinner starts to slide off the plate in your area.


https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw
Thank you for this link. Frightening but eloquent
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:32 am

I tend to take most things that homeless drug addicts and psychotics say with a grain of salt. I know around here if you gave one a bus ticket and $20, they would buy drugs with the $20 and trade the bus ticket for a place to squat in the next town over. But if they hear that they can get a tent, free needles, free healthcare, free clothes and the police won't arrest them for 3 grams of dope, stealing or panhandling someplace it would be hard to keep them out of wherever that was. All that really matters to them is whatever drugs they can squeeze in to their veins. Everything else is kind of "whatever".
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by norcalprep » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:44 am

My handle here is "norcalprep", but I've moved to the East Coast over two years ago. Since moving here, I've met so many people gleeful to make homelessness a west coast problem, including a current sheriff in a West Virginia town bragging how cheap a one way ticket is for his community.

Certainly imported problems are not the sole cause of the issue in west coast cities, but it can make what was once only a hard problem now untenable. In the mean time, the various causes for the problems grow unchecked. However high the financial and emotional and political cost it takes to solve it now, I guarantee you it will cost more as we kick this issue down the road.

I know for a fact that there are communities that ship out their homeless and drug addicts to the west coast because I've met the people who bought the tickets. As they don't seem to really care to fix whatever issues are driving their town's residents out of their homes and into drugs, it will continue until there is nobody left.

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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Halfapint » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:06 pm

norcalprep wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:44 am
My handle here is "norcalprep", but I've moved to the East Coast over two years ago. Since moving here, I've met so many people gleeful to make homelessness a west coast problem, including a current sheriff in a West Virginia town bragging how cheap a one way ticket is for his community.

Certainly imported problems are not the sole cause of the issue in west coast cities, but it can make what was once only a hard problem now untenable. In the mean time, the various causes for the problems grow unchecked. However high the financial and emotional and political cost it takes to solve it now, I guarantee you it will cost more as we kick this issue down the road.

I know for a fact that there are communities that ship out their homeless and drug addicts to the west coast because I've met the people who bought the tickets. As they don't seem to really care to fix whatever issues are driving their town's residents out of their homes and into drugs, it will continue until there is nobody left.
That’s the big issue. We’ve always had a homeless problem. Shit I remember my Eagle Scout project. It was 2000-2001 I had 3 middle schools and 2 HS’s along with a City Year, my troop, and a company that produced “grate mates” to install the filters on every storm drain in over half the city (I think I still hold the record for most “man hours” for an eagle project).

We worked for weeks with the kids (hell I was a kid at the time) to make sure they were always with the group, and to stay away from areas where the homeless were because we couldn’t guarentee their safety. So homelessness has been an issue for at least 20 years. But the economic boom and the bussing of homeless have only made things worse.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by raptor » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:43 pm

NOLA has a huge homeless issue and the vast majority are not from NOLA. We get influxes during Mardi Gras and Jazz Fest. They set up tent cities under the over passes and pan handle aggressively to the point where my building's security has to act to keep them out of the lobby, off the property and moving elsewhere.

We tend to see the population wane as summer kicks into high heat mode. However, that is when they try unsuccessfully to camp out in the lobby of my building or to sneak in to building for nefarious purposes.

The percentage who are mentally ill or drug addled is consistently high to the point where the building security only deals directly with them as a 2 person team.

...did I mention how much I hate the city and how nice it is to go spend time on my farm?

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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:15 pm

Come on now you don't hate NOLA, merely some of the people who are current residents of it.

We don't have many homeless around here. Not because we bus them to Seattle but because we have nothing to offer them. There is no shelter, soliciting is illegal, staying on a business property when it is closed is illegal, Disorderly Conduct and Public Intoxication are arrest offenses and various other unfriendly stuff.

Nearly all of the people around here that are homeless and not transient have families in the area. The families are "done with them" for the most part but they know that they might be able to milk them for a few dollars under the right situation. They also do not want to leave the areas where they know they can get drugs and have to learn a new city. There are a few that are migratory, including some locals. Some are simply so mentally ill they don't care where they are. The interstate overpass seems to be the equivalent of the Holiday Inn Express.

Recently the county began some initiatives to assist with the limited problems we do have. It is not unlike that featured in the last third of the video. One of the things they do for inmates is get them a driver's license if they are locked up long enough and complete a drug treatment program. They also do job placement. While helping a known drug addict get behind the wheel seems a recipe for disaster it is actually working in some cases. Also Alabama has record low unemployment right now and our county is one of the fastest growing in the state country. Anyone can get a job and earn a living wage if they are clean.

The other night I stopped to help a guy with a flat tire who was asleep on the side of the road late at night. He was one of our local meth heads that until he had gone to jail the last time had been living under a bridge. I was very confused because I had never seen him without him being on meth. So I did not understand how he could be asleep or why he was in car. He was living in his car which was a big step up from the bridge and wonders of wonders had a job. He might eventually fail but I was impressed enough to help him change the tire.

In the end though the homeless drug addicts migrate to and remain in the areas that they have the best chance of success of living the kind of life that allows them to do drugs all day, not get hassled by the police and do the minimum amount of work. The fantasy that sheriffs from around the country shipping homeless people to areas is the root of the problem is just that. They won't stay if the conditions are unfavorable, they have no reason to. In fact one study found that:
A new report in The Guardian shows that homeless people are indeed being bused into new cities. But most aren't taking the bus to expensive cities like Seattle.

It's not that absolutely no one has come to Seattle from another city. A map in The Guardian's story shows that around 500 people relocated via bus to the Seattle area from other cities since 2011. (No more specific data about Seattle is included.) However, the national trend shows cities like Seattle aren't receiving most people experiencing homelessness.

According to the report, 88 percent of homeless people who received tickets to travel somewhere else traveled to cities with lower incomes than wherever they started. Seattle's median household income is growing faster than any other city.
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/1 ... orer-areas

Also it works both ways. San Francisco for example has an even bigger homeless problem for much of the same reasons and commonly ships it's homeless to other states as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... ntry-study
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by RoneKiln » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:38 pm

I'm a little north of Seattle. We've had homeless immigrating to my area for at least 2 decades. I used to work with them a lot as a volunteer. Very few I met were "from here." Most hitch hiked here cause they heard our region was easy to freeload in. A few claimed to have been bussed in, but the tale was always mixed in with other ridiculous sounding stories that were all aimed towards justifying how they were living. "It's ok cause an authority figure elsewhere told me to come get services here." I finally gave up trying to help. I saw a few rare ones turn their lives around, but most just talked big and clearly had no interest in doing anything constructive.

The ones that really broke my heart were the ones that clearly had good intentions and no life skills for functioning in our society. They understood in a vague intellectual way how to live a productive life but had never seen it role modeled, and therefore had no frame of reference for all the little moment to moment and day to day decisions that are likely to create stability.

Even with the growing problems in our region, we're still one of the safest areas and times in the history of mankind. There is nowhere in the Seattle region I fear walking at night (most of the Seattle venues I go to are in the worst areas). We have serious growing issues here, but we've not even taken baby steps towards WROL. I wouldn't leave my car unlocked or anything of value visible in it. But unless you go picking fights with drug dealers, there's little risk of violence. Our violent crime rate is so low it could triple and still be miniscule compared to much of the world.

Parts of Tacoma were far more dangerous in the 90s than anywhere in Seattle today. So were parts of Vancouver BC.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by flybynight » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:28 am

Not all those who wander are lost

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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Halfapint » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:50 pm

That’s the biggest complaint. Property crime is outrageous I completely agree with anyone complaining about that.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:22 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:50 pm
That’s the biggest complaint. Property crime is outrageous I completely agree with anyone complaining about that.

Dear Abby,

Property crime in our city is really high. I wonder if there is a relationship between drugs and crime. I mean the police stopped arresting people around here for drugs and then all the sudden a bunch of shit ended up getting stolen everywhere. It's almost like people who use drugs all day are not get paid and have to look elsewhere to get money to buy drugs. That can't be right though. Drug use is a victimless crime. Why don't the police do something? :?

Sincerely,

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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:10 pm

We have serious growing issues here, but we've not even taken baby steps towards WROL.

Explain to me again how when the police and the DA allow people to violate the law and take no action against them is not dipping in to WROL?

1. Person breaks law.
2. Police are told by government leaders to do nothing
3. People break more laws.

If that isn't the definition of WROL than nothing is. The only question is where do you hold the ruler? Drugs are ok but arson isn't? Trespassing is ok but burglary isn't until it is? Criminal codes are written with great specificity to detail crimes and suggest an appropriate punishment. If there are no repercussions for breaking the laws then there is no ROL.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by flybynight » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:10 pm

Everything in that link I posted comes down to this

Crime Index
3
(100 is safest)

Safer than 3% of U.S. Cities

Trying to justify how safe you feel or that the biggest complaint is property crime is ludicrous
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by RoneKiln » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:03 pm

My tablet is not letting me copy URLs right now for some reason (I don't have "normal" internet), but I took a moment to look up the most recent crime rates. While we still have a small uptick in this region, property crime is half what it was in my youth and violent crime is one third (according to the .gov). While I don't have very good opinions about those that run Seattle, I don't think catastrophizing is constructive either. It's worse than it was 5 years ago, yet far better than 20 to 30 years ago. While I no longer live within its city limits, I still commonly walk its worse neighborhoods both during the day and at night (due to skyrocketing property values, those are the neighborhoods the best remaining ballrooms still stand). I won't leave items of value visible in my car, but I have little fear for my personal safety.

I also have lived within Seattle city limits in the past for two different stretches of time, and a large portion of my extended "tribe" still live there. If this is truly well on the path to WROL, people are far kinder and cooler than I have ever given them credit for. Cause it's extremely peaceful here.

I have far greater issue with the "bro"grammers that Amazon imported. They're legit wrecking the city in multiple ways.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by RoneKiln » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:10 pm

Out of curiosity I checked Seattle vs Tacoma. Tacoma still has nearly 25% higher violent crime rate than Seattle.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:15 pm

Comparing crime rates of today with the mid-late 80s early 90s when crack run wild through US cities, the police were badly outnumbered (say before the 92 Crime bill, when people started getting locked up) is not a good comparison. Every city is safer today than it was then.

Besides, it's not a catastrophe… yet. When it becomes one later some will say "I don't know how it happened."

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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by RoneKiln » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:44 pm

I agree there are serious problems with how much is being run, but a more meaningful response would stray into politics. Seattle used to feel like home to me. It no longer does. I liked the periods I lived there. I wouldn't want to live there now. That's not from fear of crime though. There are other areas in the northwest more dangerous, yet are also pretty safe compared to most of the world. My issue with Seattle is all the Californians living there. I'm somewhat prejudiced against them. :lol: Now they're overrunning the town I currently live in as well.
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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by boskone » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:02 pm

RoneKiln wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:44 pm
I agree there are serious problems with how much is being run, but a more meaningful response would stray into politics. Seattle used to feel like home to me. It no longer does. I liked the periods I lived there. I wouldn't want to live there now. That's not from fear of crime though. There are other areas in the northwest more dangerous, yet are also pretty safe compared to most of the world. My issue with Seattle is all the Californians living there. I'm somewhat prejudiced against them. :lol: Now they're overrunning the town I currently live in as well.
I saw an article a while back that CA, NY, and IL are losing population because of the tax burden and cost of living.

They gotta go somewhere, I guess. I just wish they'd leave the reasons they left back home. :roll:

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Re: Seattle is Dying

Post by RoneKiln » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:14 pm

Me too Boskone. But in the case of Seattle, a lot of them are being intentionally imported thanks to Amazon.

In fact, for a while there were such extreme labor shortages here that I knew of coffee shops recruiting experienced barristas from Portland and paying for them to relocate. Trying to hire people is very surreal here. Most don't even show up to the interview anymore.

I think one of the best survival skills we can teach kids is how to work. Just the underlying ideas of show up on time, do your best, ask for help when needed and offer to help every chance seems to not be understood by a lot of people.
"Seriously the most dangerous thing you are likely to do is to put salt on a Big Mac right before you eat it and to climb into your car."
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