Unexploded ordanance

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Post Reply
phunmoiblackpeony
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 4:08 am
Contact:

Unexploded ordanance

Post by phunmoiblackpeony » Mon May 06, 2019 4:10 am

It's a safe bet that with any type of major SHTF event the military will be called up to assist the civil authorities in restoring order and restorign the civil infrastructure. Depending on how bad the law and order problem gets, the military may resort to hauling out the big stick, namely, heavy weapons-to include artillery, airpower, hand grenades, etc to bring the troublemakers in line, or kill them, whichever works at the time.

I don't see such a stick being hauled out short of zombies, invasion, or insurrection, but it bears thinking about if you and your crew find yourself in an area that the military, either ours or in the case of invasion/insurrecton, theirs has pounded earlier. I've written in previous posts I can see the military using airstrikes, artillery, mines, etc to lay waste to the reanimate hordes. Some of that stuff isn't going to go off, and there isn't going to be anyone around to clear it up, so there it waits, waiting for a victim.

To counter that risk to ones survival, would it make sense that one, facing such a situation where coming into contact with unexploded munitions seems possible, arm oneself with a card showing what various munitions look like? There's a chapter on it on one of my military manuals, Soldiers manual of common tasks I think it is, that has drawings of various air dropped, artillery fired and hand tossed or emplaced munitions like bombs, missiles, artillery and mortar rounds, grenades, mines, and submunions like those that come out of cluster bombs.

Or at least be aware of such things and when you see something that looks like it might be a dud hand grenade or air dropped bomb or whatever, assume it is and leave the area?
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that."
-Col Saul Tigh, Battlestar Galactica

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3924
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by Halfapint » Mon May 06, 2019 3:21 pm

Unfortunatly this is the reality of millions in south east asia, middle east, and else where. Best tactic is to avoid them. Next best would be to ID, mark, and let the experts should there be any deal with them.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
NT2C
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 7405
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Outside of your jurisdiction officer

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by NT2C » Mon May 06, 2019 3:36 pm

Halfapint wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:21 pm
Best tactic is to avoid them. Next best would be to ID, mark, and let the experts should there be any deal with them.
Speaking as a former of the latter (I think that makes sense) this cannot be stated too strongly. UXO is best viewed as a giant "NO!" and given a wide berth. If, for whatever reason, you find yourself in a situation where you have no other choice (ie: trapped between UXO and a sheer cliff you have no hope of getting down), stay as low as possible, give the UXO as much room as possible, and slowly exfiltrate the area. When I say "low" I mean your nose should be cutting a groove in the dirt, and when I say "slowly" I mean you should be setting world records for the slowest 100yard dash. Snails and turtles should be coming up behind you and flashing their high beams at you to move over so they can pass. Again, this is only if you have no other option for your very survival.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 12902
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Home where my thought's escaping

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by Stercutus » Mon May 06, 2019 4:28 pm

It has been almost 100 years since the US Military deliberately dropped bombs on rebelling US Civilians from air craft and even longer since they used artillery. It seems unlikely that they are going to pick that up again short of a modern era General Lee crossing the Potomac with a large army. If it comes to that our problems will be so numerous and so dangerous that UXO is going to be well down the list.

Anywho welcome to ZS.

If you see some thing that looks like it might go boom stay the hell away from it and call someone who might be able to do something about it. Or get ready to change your name to Lefty.
These days of dust
Which we've known
Will blow away with this new Son

But I'll kneel down wait for now
And I'll kneel down
Know my ground

User avatar
wolf_from_wv
* * *
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: North Central West Virginia

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by wolf_from_wv » Mon May 06, 2019 11:01 pm

If for some reason you are headed across country, and you have to pass through Dolly Sods, WV on foot, stay on the trails.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/generalinfo/mnf ... ecid=12366

-----------------------------

Over Memorial Day weekend, an Unexploded Ordnance (UXO)—a 4.2" mortar containing white phosphorous—was found in the Dolly Sods Wilderness Area (DSWA) of West Virginia by Boy Scouts who were backpacking and camping in the area.

Dolly Sods, which is a popular area for outdoor activities such as hiking, backpacking, camping and viewing wildlife, plants and birds native to the area, is part of the West Virginia Maneuver Area (WVMA), a Formerly Used Defense Site (FUDS), which was used by the Army for live fire training and maneuvers during World War II. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) Huntington District has performed two removal actions along the trails and campsites in the past and immediately began coordinating for a safe removal of the unexploded ordnance.

https://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/Media/Ne ... ds-trails/

---------------------------

While the fires are small, safety protocols call for keeping people at least a half-mile away from them due to the possible presence of unexploded military ordnance — still-live mortar and artillery shells used during U.S. Army training exercises atop the 4,000-foot-high Tucker County plateau in 1943 and 1944 to prepare troops for the invasion of Italy. Dolly Sods was part of the Army’s West Virginia Maneuvers Area, which used several remote tracts within the Potomac Highlands to train troops bound for combat in Europe. More than 100,000 soldiers took part in 8-week training cycles in the area.

In 1946, the year after the war ended, Army Engineer Bomb and Shell Disposal Team No. 6 found and destroyed 189 live mortar shells and four live artillery shells during a sweep of the remote, wind-swept tract. Follow-up sweeps in the 1980s and ’90s using more sophisticated equipment turned up 57 more unexploded mortar and artillery shells. Since then, hikers have found and reported several additional live mortar and artillery rounds, with the most recent find taking place during Memorial Day weekend in 2014, when a Maryland Boy Scout group backpacking in the wilderness discovered, photographed, mapped and reported an unexploded mortar round near the junction of two trails.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/outdoors/ ... cce95.html

------------------------

https://www.wvpublic.org/post/october-1 ... dolly-sods
Strength Of My Life, whom shall I dread?
When them evildoers approach to devour my flesh.
Even if there would be an army against me,
My heart would not fear.
-P.O.D.

User avatar
Langenator
* * *
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:20 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead (and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series if they ever make them into movies)
Location: Aggieland, TX

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by Langenator » Tue May 07, 2019 4:07 pm

Do a web search for "iron harvest." They're still ploughing up shells from WWI by the ton a century later - and may be for another 400 years, by one estimate.
Fortunis Fortus Paratus

User avatar
wolf_from_wv
* * *
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: North Central West Virginia

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by wolf_from_wv » Tue May 07, 2019 10:49 pm

Dolly Sods brochure with UXO instructions:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DO ... 090664.pdf


2000 tons of UXO being dug up in Germany each year
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180957680/

Zone Rouge in France

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_Rouge

The area is saturated with unexploded shells (including many gas shells), grenades, and rusty ammunition. Soils were heavily polluted by lead, mercury, chlorine, arsenic, various dangerous gases, acids, and human and animal remains.[1] The area was also littered with ammunition depots and chemical plants.

Each year dozens of tons of unexploded shells are recovered. According to the Sécurité Civile agency in charge, at the current rate 300[2] to 700 more years will be needed to clean the area completely. Some experiments conducted in 2005–06 discovered up to 300 shells/10,000 m2 in the top 15 cm of soil in the worst areas.[1][not in citation given]

Some areas where 99% of all plants still die remain off limits (for example two small pieces of land close to Ypres and Woëvre), as arsenic constitutes up to 176 g/kg of soil samples.
Strength Of My Life, whom shall I dread?
When them evildoers approach to devour my flesh.
Even if there would be an army against me,
My heart would not fear.
-P.O.D.

User avatar
Langenator
* * *
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:20 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead (and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series if they ever make them into movies)
Location: Aggieland, TX

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by Langenator » Wed May 08, 2019 12:15 am

I visited the area near Verdun, and the Verdun museum, when I was stationed in Germany. The ground in a lot of the areas deemed to dangerous to use is still crenelated from the shelling.
Fortunis Fortus Paratus

User avatar
moab
* * * * *
Posts: 3486
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:07 pm

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by moab » Tue May 14, 2019 7:47 pm

When I was in the Marine Corps at Camp Pendleton. We were at our harbor site for the evening. And this very stupid private came walking over this little hill into camp with a mortar held over his shoulder. Shouting "Look what I found guys!". His eyes lit up like he'd found a $100 bill. We all ran and ducked for cover. While ripping him a new asshole. This kid was a real idiot. He'd been thru both boot camp and infantry training. And had been told time and again - "Don't pick ANYTHING up!". Camp Pendleton at the time - and probably still - was covered with dud rounds that never went off. I heard of a guy once kicking a big dirt clod that turned out to be white phosphorus. Which ignites when exposed to air. And burned the hell out of him. Maybe it was an old wives tale. But we were frequently told about not kicking up dirt clods in live fire zones. White phosphorus explodes into a beautiful white cloud of a substance that looks like someone blew up several hundred pounds of confectioners sugar. And then it sticks to your skin and burns until it runs out of fuel. Nasty stuff. Kind of like powdery napalm. I've seen it set off on ranges. And it is beautiful. But highly deadly. The story was that sometimes that substance would bury itself in the ground. Thus cutting off it's air supply. And would sit dormant for some time. Until some unwitting private kicked or dug it up. Then it would reignite.

So the answer to your question. No. Don't go near any ordinance you come across. The only reason to carry such cards would be to use found ordinance for things we don't speak about on here. And that's another forum.
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why would we let them have ideas?" Josef Stalin

User avatar
NT2C
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 7405
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Outside of your jurisdiction officer

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by NT2C » Wed May 15, 2019 12:52 am

moab wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:47 pm
The only reason to carry such cards would be to use found ordinance for things we don't speak about on here. And that's another forum.
I've got to disagree with you here. I agree with not picking anything up if you suspect there's UXO around but you need to know what UXO looks like to make that determination, else you'll never pick anything up anywhere, and that will eventually kill you just as surely as a piece of UXO going off will. The cards would help you to know if UXO is a concern in any particular area that you might be unfamiliar with, and where you may need to scavenge to survive. Is that hunk of metal over there that's sticking out of the ground an identifiable piece of UXO, or a piece off a rusty old tractor abandoned back during the Depression? If you need a piece of metal like it to fix something broken or make a new part out of, such info could be handy to have.
Nonsolis Radios Sediouis Fulmina Mitto. - USN Gunner's Mate motto

Sic quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit; occidentis telum est - Seneca the Younger, Epistles

Angry Sapper
* *
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:41 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, but not 28 weeks.

More of a reader than a watcher.
Location: The Kingdom of Fife, Scotland. Where the best chippie in the world is.

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by Angry Sapper » Tue May 28, 2019 9:35 am

On a similar vein.

If you're in an area where there may be a risk of UXO, old military training areas, former conflict zones etc etc.

DO NOT, in case you never got that DO FECKING NOT dig with a pick or any mechanical means.

I've watched it happen, and had to call in the CASEVAC.

It hurts really bad, so please don't.
Follow the Sapper, we're the ones with the explosives, and usually have the best bar set up before anyone else gets here.

User avatar
wolf_from_wv
* * *
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: North Central West Virginia

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by wolf_from_wv » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:46 am

70 years later, WW2 bomb explodes in German field...
https://weather.com/news/news/2019-06-2 ... r-war-bomb
Strength Of My Life, whom shall I dread?
When them evildoers approach to devour my flesh.
Even if there would be an army against me,
My heart would not fear.
-P.O.D.

User avatar
Langenator
* * *
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:20 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later, Zombieland, Shaun of the Dead (and Larry Correia's Monster Hunter series if they ever make them into movies)
Location: Aggieland, TX

Re: Unexploded ordanance

Post by Langenator » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:08 pm

Randomly wondering if there was something in that area that was actually a target, or a damaged bomber dumping its load to try to get home, or just dumped because they couldn't find the target, or what?

How did it come to be there?
Fortunis Fortus Paratus

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”