Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13930
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 18, 2017 11:03 am

There are some politics here but it is directly prep related. Apparently Washington State Law does not provide for funding for preparation for nuclear attack. Crazy, fat, little man has been wagging his nethers at Washington DC especially hard since the administration change (pick whoever you want to call that). This local Seattle pol guy wants to change the law to free up some funds and gear the state up for the planning against the NORK threat.

Seattle is a great target due to the storage of the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world there, mostly belonging to the US Navy I think.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/17/no ... ttack.html

Estimates are that NK is 3-5 years away from hitting CONUS with a nuclear tipped missile. It is unclear if he has the capability to hit Hawaii today. But if they can hit CONUS they can hit Hawaii it is a bit closer.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by teotwaki » Thu May 18, 2017 12:18 pm

Get your free PDF copy!

Image

here: http://www.madisoncountyema.com/nwss.pdf
here: http://oism.org/nwss/nwss.pdf

Nuclear War Survival Skills

Updated and Expanded 1987 Edition

Cresson H. Kearny

With Foreword by Dr. Edward Teller

Original Edition Published September, 1979,

by Oak Ridge National Laboratory, a Facility of the U.S. Department of Energy

Published by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine


Cave Junction, Oregon

http://www.oism.org/nwss/
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13930
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 18, 2017 12:29 pm

I can order the video tapes too? Beta and VHS? All four for only $105! I will be putting a check in the mail today.

Now where does the wife keep the stamps?
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by teotwaki » Thu May 18, 2017 12:47 pm

I prefer the books as they stack better for building a fallout shelter :mrgreen:

Image




Kidding aside, they are targeting San Francisco first.

My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
CG
* * * *
Posts: 900
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Middle of a Haboob, Texas

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by CG » Thu May 18, 2017 12:54 pm

Stercutus wrote:There are some politics here but it is directly prep related. Apparently Washington State Law does not provide for funding for preparation for nuclear attack. Crazy, fat, little man has been wagging his nethers at Washington DC especially hard since the administration change (pick whoever you want to call that). This local Seattle pol guy wants to change the law to free up some funds and gear the state up for the planning against the NORK threat.

Seattle is a great target due to the storage of the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world there, mostly belonging to the US Navy I think.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/17/no ... ttack.html

Estimates are that NK is 3-5 years away from hitting CONUS with a nuclear tipped missile. It is unclear if he has the capability to hit Hawaii today. But if they can hit CONUS they can hit Hawaii it is a bit closer.
Question: Would most of the same preps the money would be used for also be used if Fukushima goes FUBAR?
Mater tua caligas gerit!

...I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention to what I was thinking.

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by teotwaki » Thu May 18, 2017 12:57 pm

CG wrote:Question: Would most of the same preps the money would be used for also be used if Fukushima goes FUBAR?
Only if you are in Japan!

Image
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13930
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 18, 2017 1:15 pm

teotwaki wrote:
Kidding aside, they are targeting San Francisco first.

Maybe allowing them first strike would not be so bad.....


Oh kidding aside, ok.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 17060
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by raptor » Thu May 18, 2017 1:45 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Seattle is a great target due to the storage of the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world there, mostly belonging to the US Navy I think.
An easy aiming point and a legitimate military target (under the rules of law). :(

http://www.clui.org/ludb/site/bangor-na ... arine-base
Bangor Sub Base manages the third largest collection of nuclear weapons in the country, with approximately 1,700 Trident missiles either stored at its hill-top depot, or onboard its fleet of eight Trident submarines which still roam the seas on secret missions. The base covers over 7,000 acres on the shores of Hood Canal, in Puget Sound, and was activated as a sub base in 1977, after being established as a munitions depot in World War Two. Base closures elsewhere have led to recent growth at Bangor, and now over 20,000 people work at the base. In 2004, Naval Submarine Base Bangor merged with Naval Station Bremerton to form Naval Base Kitsap, making it the third-largest Navy base in the U.S.

Pearl Harbor, HI is another legitimate military target (under the rules of war anyway). That is also within range and houses significant attack capacity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Sta ... homeported



If NORK uses a nuclear device on a US city, the US will without a doubt respond with a massive nuclear retaliation on NORK. In that case the PRC may even nuke NORK.

The question is what happens if NORK nukes SK or Japan? I suspect any country uses nuclear devices against US ally will be deemed an attack on the the US itself ala JFK's statement in the 1960's.

I ask this second question because IMO NORK is more likely to have a fucked up launch and hit an unintended target than it is to have a success on target hit.

User avatar
Iowa_guy
* * *
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Zombieland
Location: Central Iowa

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Iowa_guy » Thu May 18, 2017 2:06 pm

raptor wrote:
I ask this second question because IMO NORK is more likely to have a fucked up launch and hit an unintended target than it is to have a success on target hit.
I wonder if the weapon malfunctions if you get more of a dirty bomb effect rather than a big boom? You would think it would not arm fully until in terminal phase. Still someone is going to be pissed and it will be a bad situation in the area of impact.

Hokicake
BANNED
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:36 pm
Location: VA

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Hokicake » Thu May 18, 2017 2:06 pm

I lived in Hawaii! Thats were I go like twice a year too! My family lives there.

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by teotwaki » Thu May 18, 2017 2:19 pm

Stercutus wrote:Maybe allowing them first strike would not be so bad.....

Busting me up!!!!!
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 17060
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by raptor » Thu May 18, 2017 2:23 pm

Iowa_guy wrote:
raptor wrote:
I ask this second question because IMO NORK is more likely to have a fucked up launch and hit an unintended target than it is to have a success on target hit.
I wonder if the weapon malfunctions if you get more of a dirty bomb effect rather than a big boom? You would think it would not arm fully until in terminal phase. Still someone is going to be pissed and it will be a bad situation in the area of impact.
I am by no means an expert.
My WAG (based only upon movies and reading stories about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings) is that they have timed, barometric and contact fuses for the device. So I guess it depends upon what the malfunction is and in what phase of the flight.

But you bring up a good point I had not considered, if they hit the target but the device is a dud you are going to get a radioactive mess.
Last edited by raptor on Fri May 19, 2017 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

LowKey
* * * * *
Posts: 4648
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:32 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of the Dead (original and remake)
Dawn of the Dead (original and remake)
Land of the Dead
Diary of the Dead
28 Days
28 Weeks
Resident Evil
Shawn of the Dead
Night of the Comet (cheese squared!)
Dead Alive (cheese cubed!!)
Location: In the Middle East, for my sins.

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by LowKey » Thu May 18, 2017 3:39 pm

raptor wrote:
But you bring up a good point I had not considered, if they hit the target but the device is a dud you are going to get a radioactive mess.
Here's another few things to consider.....if it's a dud, how are geopolitics likely play out after we turn NK into a slag heap?
How will NK neighbors response when we create a big glowing mess on their doorstep?
Also, anyone likely to try shenanigans of their own while we would be focused on responding to the hostile launch?
Or if the Nork Nuke wasn't a dud?
“Political tags – such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth – are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by teotwaki » Thu May 18, 2017 5:59 pm

I don't think we could ever outright nuke North Korea due to the collateral damage. Even tiny little tactical nukes would sow radioactivity into Russia, China, Japan, Vietnam and South Korea. A no-win for us. We'd have to expend our entire conventional arsenal and lots of troops to put that country back into the stone age. We'd want a million Chinese soldiers coming over the Yalu to help us. Anyone see it much different?
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
TacAir
* * * * *
Posts: 8100
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by TacAir » Thu May 18, 2017 7:35 pm

The use of "Enhanced Radiation Weapons" (ERW in .mil speak) low yield - hi RAD weapons.

ERWs were first operationally deployed for anti-ballistic missiles (ABM). In this role the burst of neutrons would cause nearby warheads to undergo partial fission, preventing them from exploding properly. For this to work, the ABM would have to explode within a few hundred feet of its target. The first example of such a system was the W66, used on the Sprint missile used in the US's spam-X system. It is believed the Soviet equivalent, the A-135's 53T6 missile, uses a similar design. Yup, even back in the day.

The weapon was once again proposed for tactical use by the US in the 1970s and 80s, and production of the W70 began for the Lance in 1981. This time it experienced a firestorm of protest as the growing anti-nuclear movement gained strength through this period. Opposition was so intense that European leaders refused to accept it on their territory. President Reagan bowed to pressure and the built examples of the W70-3 remained stockpiled in the US until they were retired in 1992. The last W70 was dismantled in 2011.

So, yeah, we have empty pockets right now. Seems the money the the KGB admitted it poured in the anti-nuke movement in the EU paid real-world dividends. For the Soviets anyway.

As for Japan. We have been selling them weapons-grade Pu, by the boatload, for decades - for their nuke plants. Japan has always denied that had nukes. But...if you read the published denials - you will see words like "operational" or "in inventory".

Japan had signed the international Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which bans it from developing nuclear weapons, more than 40 years ago. But according to a senior Japanese government official deeply involved in the country's nuclear energy program, Japan has been able to build nuclear weapons ever since it launched a plutonium breeder reactor and a uranium enrichment plant 30 years ago.

Image
The Japanese H2A rocket has the throw weight to deliver even a relatively 'crude' nuke anywhere in the world....
TacAir - I'd rather be a disappointed pessimist than a horrified optimist
**All my books ** some with a different view of the "PAW". Check 'em out.
Adventures in rice storage//Mod your Esbit for better stability

User avatar
flybynight
* * * * *
Posts: 3280
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:30 am

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by flybynight » Thu May 18, 2017 7:49 pm

teotwaki wrote:I don't think we could ever outright nuke North Korea due to the collateral damage. Even tiny little tactical nukes would sow radioactivity into Russia, China, Japan, Vietnam and South Korea. A no-win for us. We'd have to expend our entire conventional arsenal and lots of troops to put that country back into the stone age. We'd want a million Chinese soldiers coming over the Yalu to help us. Anyone see it much different?
As far as nuking NK or not. I think it will depend on how many nukes it's believed they have stockpiled. If they launch three , San Francisco, Seattle and Hawaii. or even just one target ( even not us ) and it's believed they have five or ten more. Given NK's willingness to fire the first one, NK will become glow toast and damm the consequences
Not all those who wander are lost

John Titor was right

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13930
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Stercutus » Thu May 18, 2017 9:44 pm

flybynight wrote:
teotwaki wrote:I don't think we could ever outright nuke North Korea due to the collateral damage. Even tiny little tactical nukes would sow radioactivity into Russia, China, Japan, Vietnam and South Korea. A no-win for us. We'd have to expend our entire conventional arsenal and lots of troops to put that country back into the stone age. We'd want a million Chinese soldiers coming over the Yalu to help us. Anyone see it much different?
As far as nuking NK or not. I think it will depend on how many nukes it's believed they have stockpiled. If they launch three , San Francisco, Seattle and Hawaii. or even just one target ( even not us ) and it's believed they have five or ten more. Given NK's willingness to fire the first one, NK will become glow toast and damm the consequences
One failed nuclear attack is still a nuclear attack. If someone is shooting at you and misses or hits you with a squib load you don't need to wait until they hit between the clavicles before you respond. A measured nuclear response would likely be seen as reasonable by most of the world. Haters still going to hate.

While China might publicly throw a fit they would be full involved and in agreement under the table. If someone launched a dirty bomb at them the response would likely be stunning.
Last edited by Stercutus on Fri May 19, 2017 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
Halfapint
* * * * *
Posts: 3971
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: all?
Location: Central Cascadia

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Halfapint » Fri May 19, 2017 12:37 am

There used to be silos for AA middles and such when I was growing up. However I've heard many of them were decommissioned. I'd like to think that we still have some capability with Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon, the 3rd largest warehouse by sq ft, along with a large manufacturing base, the 3rd largest military base and shit tons of nukes.....

But we are probably left for dead because well. Politics.
JeeperCreeper wrote:I like huge dicks, Halfapint, so you are OK in my book.... hahaha
Spazzy wrote:Tell ya what... If Zombies attack and the world ends I'll hook tandem toddlers to a plow if it means I'll be able to eat...

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13930
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Stercutus » Fri May 19, 2017 4:13 am

The post- Cold War thinking was that tensions would rise slowly until things heated up to war like levels when the nukes would be deployed out. So few nations had strike capabilities. However TBH the defensive missiles of the 70s were almost as bad getting nuked by the enemy.

Today there is some realistic defensive capability that the US has been slowly moving the needle on. They can potentially protect the whole West coast from an attack of a very low number of missiles at this point. Once those are gone it is game over. Hawaii is much more difficult problem due to it being in the middle of an ocean.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 17060
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by raptor » Fri May 19, 2017 8:33 am

The AEGIS AA systems on US and Japanese war ships have limited capabilities against ICBMS in the launch/boost phase.

The Patriot system also has a limited capability in the terminal stage.

The THADD that is in SK now has a better capability in the terminal stage.

My knowledge on effectiveness is limited to the published reports so is limited.

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13930
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Stercutus » Fri May 19, 2017 9:19 am

Essentially with an ICBM in terminal phase it is landing on you. The THAAD in SK can actually do a bit more than terminal phase against a short range missile targeting something in South Korea.

Vandenburg AFB now is home to the scant few GBIs that protect the West Coast. They use a variety of sensors and can protect against 7-14 incoming missiles.

The Aegis SM-3 "can" do mid-course defense. They would have to be positioned perfectly and ready to launch when the time came.

A Patriot is near worthless in this fight. An altitude detonation negates their capability.


All of this is kind of moot. I was simply highlighting the complete lack of civil defense preparations in this arena and moves by some local pols to get on it.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by teotwaki » Fri May 19, 2017 9:49 am

Halfapint wrote:There used to be silos for AA middles and such when I was growing up. However I've heard many of them were decommissioned.

All of the -spam- missile bases were decommissioned. I've explored many of them around here before they were bulldozed into oblivion.

A good resource: http://ed-thelen.org/loc.html
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
teotwaki
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 4337
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by teotwaki » Fri May 19, 2017 9:56 am

Stercutus wrote:-----All of this is kind of moot. I was simply highlighting the complete lack of civil defense preparations in this arena and moves by some local pols to get on it.

Since we can't talk politics we are left with the mootness :mrgreen:
My adventures and pictures are on my blog http://suntothenorth.blogspot.com

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 13930
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Hawaii and Seattle Seek to Prepare for Nuclear Attack

Post by Stercutus » Fri May 19, 2017 10:16 am

Unless you live in one of the targeted areas and want to make personal preparations.

I am thinking if you are on Hawaii and it gets nuked you are likely screwed depending upon the particulars. At least in Seattle you can make a run for it.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”