Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Topics in this category pertain to planning. Discussions include how to prepare yourself, your family and your community for catastrophes and what you plan to do when they hit you.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Post Reply
Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:34 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm working on a plan to build a house. I would like it to have redundant utilities built in, for gas, water, electricity, and sewage. This way, if there is ever a loss of "on the grid" services to the house, the redundancies can kick in and the house (and my family in it) won't have much to worry about.

Let me know what you think of these ideas?

1. Electricity:
-Plugged into the grid, plus:
-Solar panals set up outside the house to harvest sunlight
-Telsa Powerwall Battery
-Standby generator that can be powered either by natural gas or propane

2. Water:
-Piped into the area's water supply like a normal house, plus:
-Roof of house set up for rainwater collection, into an underground cistern that can provide filtered, potable water to the house, in the event that the pipes dry up from the area's water supply.

3. Gas:
-Connected to the area's natural gas line
-Propane storage tank near the house that can be turned on in the event natural gas supply goes down. The house would need to be fitted with a way to switch between the two safely (and I don't know if it's possible... one person told me it was but that it was complicated).

If there's no way to switch between the two fuels, will consider making the house all-electric for heat, clothes dryer, hot water, etc, without the need for natural gas or propane... except to run the standby generator in the event of a loss of power. In that case, just the large propane tank for the generator and no need to hook up to the natural gas line.

4. Sewage:
-Connected to the area's sewer line
-Septic tank system in place and ready to be switched to, if sewer services stop accepting waste

The impetus for this mental project comes from "The Global Risks Report 2016: 11th Edition". It lists "Failure of climate-change mitigation and adaptation", "Large-scale involuntary migration" and "Water Crises" as both very likely, and very impactful should they come to be. A house like this could be in a relatively safe place, be self-sustaining, and even be built on enough land for a home farm.

It's just a thinking exercise at the moment. What do you all think?

Thanks!
-Neptune Glory
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 17060
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by raptor » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:22 pm

That is a lot of redundancy. However, if you are willing pay for it, all is possible. I am not sure about the sewer and septic system. Most locations do not permit a septic system if there is a municipal sewerage system. That said I do not see why you could have both if permitted.

The solar panels in use with a grid system is easy. They make grid tied inverters. This would reduce your power bill.

The propane and NG is easy also though some. appliances do require burner adjustments to deal with the different BTU contents of propane and NG.

I would note that I have house with municipal water and a water well for the garden. It can also fed the house. If a water well is possible in your area that may be more useful.

User avatar
Hiroshima_Morphine
* * * * *
Posts: 1340
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Gone With The Wind - wait maybe I just felt
like a zombie after watching it for the 100th time as a kid.
Location: Southern Appalachia
Contact:

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:25 pm

I'm going out on a limb here and say you are in more of an urbanized area than my house is. But My wife and I built a second home several years ago as a 'vacation home'.... it is in the middle of the woods and everything is self sufficient. Here are a few pieces of experience I will lay on you.... Now mind you, if your intent is to survive a temporary interruption of service, your gold. But, these are boards dedicated to the zombie appocalypse, or a similar 'end of the world as we know it' scenario, not a temporary inconvenience.
Neptune Glory wrote:
1. Electricity:
-Plugged into the grid, plus:
-Solar panals set up outside the house to harvest sunlight
-Telsa Powerwall Battery
-Standby generator that can be powered either by natural gas or propane
-Bad idea: Grid-tied means the utility 'buys' from you what ever power you produce but do not use. Or rather they steal it from you and pay you a rate that they say is fair. Now if you had utility in addition to your battery bank and you used manual transfer switch to run your breaker box off the bank when the grid goes down, that would not be bad. In fact you could use the utility to top off your batteries with a good trickle charger. But IMO, I would not grid tie my battery bank.
-Good start, but I'd also add more panels cover your roof in them, and a wind turbine or two if you can (some local ordinances frown upon them, as they 'mar the landscape'.)
-Again, good, but go bigger. Your battery bank can't be big enough. Get one as big as money and space will allow.
-I would try to avoid a geni.... a loud running engine will attract people, and a lot of them won't be bashful about trying to get into your nicely prepared bug-in haven... if you absolutely have to have one, I'd go with diesel. I'll explain more below.
Neptune Glory wrote:2. Water:
-Piped into the area's water supply like a normal house, plus:
-Roof of house set up for rainwater collection, into an underground cistern that can provide filtered, potable water to the house, in the event that the pipes dry up from the area's water supply.
-I'm not a big fan of utility water at all, I'd get off that and get a well instead. But again, you may live somewhere that that is not allowed.
-Great Idea!
Neptune Glory wrote:3. Gas:
-Connected to the area's natural gas line
-Propane storage tank near the house that can be turned on in the event natural gas supply goes down. The house would need to be fitted with a way to switch between the two safely (and I don't know if it's possible... one person told me it was but that it was complicated).

If there's no way to switch between the two fuels, will consider making the house all-electric for heat, clothes dryer, hot water, etc, without the need for natural gas or propane... except to run the standby generator in the event of a loss of power. In that case, just the large propane tank for the generator and no need to hook up to the natural gas line.
To this whole section... Diesel for geni if you feel it is an absolute necessity... all appliances and heat should be electric.

There are several reasons why I am a big advocate of Diesel...

you can make it, and unlike gas engines > ethanol, a Diesel engine will run off Bio-Diesel with minimal if any modifications. The most you will need to do is change out your fuel line and add an additional in-line fuel filter just in case. I prefer the transparent kind. (fun fact: Rudolf Diesel designed his engines to run off of 'bio-diesel', but due to the tallow shortage at the time the oil companies figured out a way to convert crude oil to a burnable 'diesel' fuel.)

http://www.make-biodiesel.org/Biodiesel ... cipes.html

Everything on that list, including the methanol and lye, you can make at home. It takes some time, but it's not like you will have a job and you will need a hobby.

Diesel engines also, on average, last longer. That's because they run at a lower RPM than a gas engine, and the fuel is very 'oily'. So less wear with more lubrication.

Diesel has a much longer shelf life than gasoline. (2 yr minimum vs 6 month minimum). Not sure how it compares to CNG / Propane.

And lastly, your plan b / bug-out vehicle can also be diesel.
Neptune Glory wrote:4. Sewage:
-Connected to the area's sewer line
-Septic tank system in place and ready to be switched to, if sewer services stop accepting waste
Nothing to add.... accept maybe look into grey water reclamation to extend the capacity / life of your septic tank. It will also help with conserving your water stores.


I hope this helps. :)
Last edited by Hiroshima_Morphine on Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Commies to the left of me, Nazis to the right
Here I am stuck in the middle... with you?

Twitter: @AnonymityGone
Website: AnonymityGone.WordPress.Com

User avatar
Hiroshima_Morphine
* * * * *
Posts: 1340
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Gone With The Wind - wait maybe I just felt
like a zombie after watching it for the 100th time as a kid.
Location: Southern Appalachia
Contact:

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:57 pm

Oh, one additional note....

In most places on Earth, the temperature behind / underneath 8 feet of well packed dirt is 60 degrees Fahrenheit year round.

You can do two things with this info....

One is Geo-thermal heating / cooling for an above ground house, much more energy efficient. I would suggest this to anyone, even if they weren't trying to build a bug-in house.

The other is an underground house, if you build a house with its ceiling / roof 8 feet underground, you negate the need for heat or AC. You would also get the half-value shielding from fallout with dirt / concrete / steel if you were underground. But a lot of people can't stand the idea of living full time pre-apocalypse in a 'bunker'. I can't remember the exact rating of 'halving' you would get at that depth... but with most Cold War fallout shelters being buried with the ceiling at only 36 inches below packed soil, I would say it is more than adequate.
Commies to the left of me, Nazis to the right
Here I am stuck in the middle... with you?

Twitter: @AnonymityGone
Website: AnonymityGone.WordPress.Com

boskone
* * * * *
Posts: 1145
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm
Location: Aggieland-ish

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by boskone » Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:59 pm

Is there a particular reason for the Tesla Powerwall? They're nice, but fairly pricey; apparently you can DIY equivalents (especially using used batteries from e.g. diesel trucks) fairly easily.

Just something to check out; with a Powerwall you're locked to 7kW and a given price, where you might be able to run a larger setup with COTS parts cheaper.

User avatar
aikorob
* * *
Posts: 466
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:28 pm

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by aikorob » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:08 pm

NG vs propane requires a change of the jets---usually harder to find/access them than it is to change. Many stoves and furnaces used to come with one set installed, and the other type in amongst the paperwork
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they’ve always worked for me.

User avatar
ineffableone
* * * * *
Posts: 3605
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:15 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Undead, Dead Alive/Braindead, Shaun of the Dead, Zombieland, 28 days, 28 Weeks Later, I Am Legend, Resident Evil franchise, Serenity (I would call Revers pretty damn zombie), Versus, Black Sheep
Location: Pac Northwest, East of the Cascades

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by ineffableone » Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:27 pm

First off I have to say I like the concept of redundant systems. In Star Trek it is the Federation's implementation of redundant systems that is supposed to have made them so great. Things can get damaged and there is always a back up system or a way to reroute to another system. So trying to figure out a way to make redundant systems work in real life is sort of a fun thought experiment. But the biggest problem tends to be cost. Adding multiple systems tends to be costly. And if you have systems set up that would allow you to be off grid, why would you bother to stay on grid? Why keep paying those monthly bills while you have expensive systems in place not really working for you except as back ups?

There is a problem you might need to overcome with a septic system you don't use except in emergency. A septic system needs constant use and maintenance. It is not something you can just install and leave for a decade then suddenly start using. There is a lot of folks who have gone away for several months and returned home to find their septic system had gone bad while they were away due to it having not been in use and maintained while they were gone.

As for your other thoughts,

As mentioned being grid tied and having alt energy a lot of places actually don't let you have a battery bank hooked up to your alt power. They require you to send the power you create into the grid rather than into your own batteries. My step father ran into this when installing solar panels on his house in NJ.

Rain water harvesting might be illegal in your area some states/counties don't allow it, be sure to check your local laws. Also make sure to size your cistern properly. Big mistake a lot of people make is undersizing their water storage for their needs. A well is a much more practical water source, but rain water harvesting is a good one too. I would suggest you look into the Earthship water harvesting systems as they have really made an art of water catchment as their only water source.

While propane might sound good, where do you plan to source more propane? You might want to look into bio gas as an alternative gas for cooking. It is created by composting your food and yard waste and capturing the gases produced. This is a renewable gas source, though low daily volume it is constantly renewing as long as you have compost. I started a thread about a commercial version I had discovered viewtopic.php?f=39&t=117856 but there are plans out there for DIY versions too. Or the simpler solution, eliminate the use of gas. Gas while useful, can be replaced with other options. Like electric or wood fire.
"Once a man has seen society's black underbelly, he can never turn his back on it. Never pretend, like you do, that it doesn't exist"

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with ME!"


ZS Wiki ZS Acronyms

Gun Self Defense Counter

User avatar
Confucius
* * * * *
Posts: 2765
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: The last, best place

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Confucius » Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:29 pm

If in an area conducive to septic (not all of them are), having septic as a primary (maybe with gray water reuse, which is just a good idea anyways), and a composting toilet as a backup would be a better bet.

So long as you're using it properly (absolutely no grease down the drain, no big bleach parties or anything), a septic tank is pretty hands off. When I was growing up, we went 17 years before pumping our tank for the first time, and my folks are still on the same tank and leach field, some 35 years after it was put in. They pump more regularly, but mostly because our neighbors had their tank back up, and now my mother is paranoid about it...

But rather than thinking utilities, think systems. Think what necessary functions your house provides, and make backups for those.

Heat: maybe natural gas or electric as primary, wood or propane as backup. Coal if you're in an area amenable to heating with it, as laying in coal is dead simple.

Light: sure, maybe grid electric as primary, solar as backup, propane lanterns or candles as another.

Food storage: sure, you have an electric freezer. Grid as primary, solar as backup is great, or one of those propane absorption chillers.

Etc. Etc. Etc.


Focusing too much on duplicating utilities seems to kind of miss the point to me

Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Neptune Glory » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:35 am

-Good start, but I'd also add more panels cover your roof in them, and a wind turbine or two if you can (some local ordinances frown upon them, as they 'mar the landscape'.)

I was hopeful to use the roof for rainwater collection, and build a solar panal bank in the yard, facing the best direction to absorb lots of sunlight. It's area might be larger than the roof. But, if a well is also an option, that would be good, too! Thanks!
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

User avatar
Hiroshima_Morphine
* * * * *
Posts: 1340
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Gone With The Wind - wait maybe I just felt
like a zombie after watching it for the 100th time as a kid.
Location: Southern Appalachia
Contact:

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Hiroshima_Morphine » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:05 am

I would think you could do both.

The panels would need to be angled in a way to collect the most Sun, in the Nothern hemisphere, this typically means angling the panels at a 45 degree angle facing the South. There are rigs that will 'follow' the Sun as it 'travels' through the sky, but I think they are a waste of power / money and just something else that can break. Unless you have a lot of extra room to store parts, simpler is they way to go as it is easier to maintain or repair.

As for water collection, the rain will run off of your panels, then into your cistern system.

I would not abandon rain collection as a source of water, but I would use ground water / well as well.

And as far as local ordinances go, as we have all voiced concerns about, the more rural an area usually the less ordinances. I would figure out what I wanted to build exactly how I wanted to build it, THEN figure out where to build it. My wife and I did not build our house where we originally wanted too because of the county's building codes. Instead we built it in the.next county over.
Commies to the left of me, Nazis to the right
Here I am stuck in the middle... with you?

Twitter: @AnonymityGone
Website: AnonymityGone.WordPress.Com

User avatar
Evan the Diplomat
* * * * *
Posts: 2232
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:48 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead (2004), Savageland
Location: Fairfax, VA

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:39 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:Hi everyone,

I'm working on a plan to build a house. I would like it to have redundant utilities built in, for gas, water, electricity, and sewage. This way, if there is ever a loss of "on the grid" services to the house, the redundancies can kick in and the house (and my family in it) won't have much to worry about.

When I first posted about a sustainable house here on ZS I was ridiculed.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=54305

But it's glad to see that other people are coming around that line of thought. I will post the link in here but you want to look at the Chippendale house which belongs to Michael Mobb.
http://www.sustainablehouse.com.au/
It is a townhouse in a suburb of Sydney Australia for $40,000 they were able to get off the grid, provide their own water, processed their own rubbish, and handle their own sewage. You could do a similar set up except keeping the utilities as your primary and the independents as your secondary.

Let me know what you think of these ideas?

1. Electricity:
-Plugged into the grid, plus:
-Solar panals set up outside the house to harvest sunlight
-Telsa Powerwall Battery
-Standby generator that can be powered either by natural gas or propane

The house in Sydney uses high-efficiency appliances and their meter goes in reverse into the city electrical group. They use solar panels for photovoltaics as well as a solar hot water heater that has a propane back up. I recommend that you Google the Solar Decathalon. Some excellent house designs there also use very little power and lighting and appliances. Especially impressive or the induction cooktops.

2. Water:
-Piped into the area's water supply like a normal house, plus:
-Roof of house set up for rainwater collection, into an underground cistern that can provide filtered, potable water to the house, in the event that the pipes dry up from the area's water supply.

The Chippendale home used rainwater as its primary resource. They have a very clever system that diverted a certain amount of water from the sister to allow for birdshit and all the other particulates that accumulate on a roof then once they have a water down any additional rain went into the sister. The sister and was immediately supply to all the drinking faucets and was flash sterilized using ultraviolet light. I drink from there faucet it was delicious. What they are doing differently is that after the water goes down the drain it doesn't go to the septic tank graywater get you reuse in dishwashers clothes washers showers and toilet tanks. After the water leaves the toilet then it goes down to an anaerobic septic tank where it is broken down and the next liquor goes into a small artificial wetland in their backyard.

3. Gas:
-Connected to the area's natural gas line
-Propane storage tank near the house that can be turned on in the event natural gas supply goes down. The house would need to be fitted with a way to switch between the two safely (and I don't know if it's possible... one person told me it was but that it was complicated).

As someone who loves to cook, I cannot bear to think about cooking on the electrical cooktop. The Chippendale house use no gas they were all electric. you might want to consider a small wind turbine to provide electricity in the event of cloudy days

If there's no way to switch between the two fuels, will consider making the house all-electric for heat, clothes dryer, hot water, etc, without the need for natural gas or propane... except to run the standby generator in the event of a loss of power. In that case, just the large propane tank for the generator and no need to hook up to the natural gas line.

4. Sewage:
-Connected to the area's sewer line
-Septic tank system in place and ready to be switched to, if sewer services stop accepting waste

The house in Sydney has had a zero sewage bill. They also use earthworms to process all of their biological household waste paper grass clippings food. What doesn't go to the worms goes into a compost ball and becomes fertilizer for their small backyard oh by the way, they're small artificial wetlands is no larger than what we would consider a decorative pond that you can buy at Home Depot.

The impetus for this mental project comes from "The Global Risks Report 2016: 11th Edition". It lists "Failure of climate-change mitigation and adaptation", "Large-scale involuntary migration" and "Water Crises" as both very likely, and very impactful should they come to be. A house like this could be in a relatively safe place, be self-sustaining, and even be built on enough land for a home farm.

It's just a thinking exercise at the moment. What do you all think?

Thanks!
-Neptune Glory
Priests and cannibals, prehistoric animals
Everybody happy as the dead come home

Big black nemesis, parthenogenesis
No-one move a muscle as the dead come home

taipan821
* * *
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:58 am

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by taipan821 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:13 am

Is there more info about region, is living in Southern states I would look more at solar off-grid, live in northern states then fuel (gas, petrol, disiesl etc) would make more sense

just my two cents, every time a cyclone comes near i worry about my solar panels flying
Tropical Cyclone Ita: Category 5 landfall 2014
Tropical Cyclone Marcia: Category 5 landfall 2015
Tropical Cyclone Nathan: Category 3 landfall 2015
Severe Tropical Cyclone Debbie: Category 4 landfall 2017
Watsonville/Walsh River Bushfire 2018
North Queensland Monsoonal Event 2019
New South Wales Bushfires 2019

User avatar
Stercutus
* * * * *
Posts: 14227
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Safe On Base

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Stercutus » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:27 am

I keep thinking of the poor home inspector that will come out and inspect your home.

Keep in mind that redundant systems mean twice as much to take care of. Although it is only expensive if you actually take care of stuff.
You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

User avatar
shillard
* *
Posts: 246
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 12:55 am
Location: Newcastle, Australia

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by shillard » Sun May 29, 2016 6:26 am

If you are looking to connect gas because the thought of cooking on an electric hob is an abomination (rightly so), look into an induction cooktop.

Electric, twice the price of a ceramic cooktop, but with the instant on/ off capability of gas.

Much safer as well.
Ewige Blumenkraft!

mortblanc
*
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:38 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: All 3 of the Omega Man
Book of Eli
does Quest for Fire count?
Location: North KY

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by mortblanc » Sun May 29, 2016 1:00 pm

Now everyone is googling HOB.

That term is never used in the States.

It's a "cook top"
The nice thing about being over the hill is you get to coast the rest of the way.

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sun May 29, 2016 1:08 pm

Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:Oh, one additional note....

In most places on Earth, the temperature behind / underneath 8 feet of well packed dirt is 60 degrees Fahrenheit year round.

You can do two things with this info....

One is Geo-thermal heating / cooling for an above ground house, much more energy efficient. I would suggest this to anyone, even if they weren't trying to build a bug-in house.

The other is an underground house, if you build a house with its ceiling / roof 8 feet underground, you negate the need for heat or AC. You would also get the half-value shielding from fallout with dirt / concrete / steel if you were underground. But a lot of people can't stand the idea of living full time pre-apocalypse in a 'bunker'. I can't remember the exact rating of 'halving' you would get at that depth... but with most Cold War fallout shelters being buried with the ceiling at only 36 inches below packed soil, I would say it is more than adequate.
Noting that OP is from Missouri and near the New Madrid fault, I'm gonna suggest that an underground house might be an engineering nightmare and a SHTF coffin, should things get shakey
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

Neptune Glory
* * *
Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:35 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Shaun of the Dead, Army of Darkness, The Crow (technically a Zombie!), Lost Boys (Vampires are Zombies, too!)
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by Neptune Glory » Mon May 30, 2016 8:32 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote: Noting that OP is from Missouri and near the New Madrid fault, I'm gonna suggest that an underground house might be an engineering nightmare and a SHTF coffin, should things get shakey
Have scrapped this for the moment. Spouse and I are working on being mobile (5th wheel trailer + one ton pickup truck, etc) so that we can better adapt to planet's failure to mitigate climate change... which we believe is in the mail for the next couple of decades or so. Will settle down when we have to, geography to be determined.
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

User avatar
RonnyRonin
* * * * *
Posts: 1680
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 8:11 pm
Location: Front Range, CO

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by RonnyRonin » Mon May 30, 2016 10:04 am

Slight drift, but does anyone want to comment on the Tesla Powerwall? I only heard about it a few days before I saw this thread, a professional solar installer was trying to tell me it was the next big jump in solar systems but it sounded more evolutionary then revolutionary to me.
share your tobacco and your kindling, but never your sauna or your woman.

AK, Glock, Pie.

User avatar
zombieapocalypsegame
* * *
Posts: 521
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:07 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Dawn of the Dead
28 Days Later
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by zombieapocalypsegame » Mon May 30, 2016 2:48 pm

The Tesla Powerwall is an as-yet unproven product. Despite the hype & the fact that the 7kW one got pre-ordered something fierce, Tesla has already dropped the 10kW version. See http://www.techhive.com/article/3047228 ... ttery.html

And at the end of the day this is still new technology. It hasn't had 10 years in the consumer marketplace in this implementation to illustrate if it does what it says it's going to or succumbs to the entropy of Real Life faster than they claim.

I am not familiar with the innards of the Powerwall battery setup, but it seems to me that a bank of 6v golf cart batteries would be a safer bet, at least from the repair / maintenance angle. Yes, they would take up more space but they are far more plentiful and a thoroughly tested & proven tech by comparison. And they wouldn't require $3000 up front.

And keep in mind the Powerwall isn't the only piece of equipment you'd need.
Zombie Apocalypse Games
The Zombies, They're Coming!
Once Fired Lake City Brass
Brass made for & only used by the US armed forces, well suited for reloading.

taipan821
* * *
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:58 am

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by taipan821 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:48 pm

RonnyRonin wrote:Slight drift, but does anyone want to comment on the Tesla Powerwall? I only heard about it a few days before I saw this thread, a professional solar installer was trying to tell me it was the next big jump in solar systems but it sounded more evolutionary then revolutionary to me.
I'm starting to see them marketed over here (ausralia) as an off grid power system. as an emergency backup, lasting a day fine, but they won't work too well when your solar panels are in the street (I'm looking at you future cyclones)
Tropical Cyclone Ita: Category 5 landfall 2014
Tropical Cyclone Marcia: Category 5 landfall 2015
Tropical Cyclone Nathan: Category 3 landfall 2015
Severe Tropical Cyclone Debbie: Category 4 landfall 2017
Watsonville/Walsh River Bushfire 2018
North Queensland Monsoonal Event 2019
New South Wales Bushfires 2019

User avatar
ineffableone
* * * * *
Posts: 3605
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:15 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Undead, Dead Alive/Braindead, Shaun of the Dead, Zombieland, 28 days, 28 Weeks Later, I Am Legend, Resident Evil franchise, Serenity (I would call Revers pretty damn zombie), Versus, Black Sheep
Location: Pac Northwest, East of the Cascades

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by ineffableone » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:22 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote: Noting that OP is from Missouri and near the New Madrid fault, I'm gonna suggest that an underground house might be an engineering nightmare and a SHTF coffin, should things get shakey
Have scrapped this for the moment. Spouse and I are working on being mobile (5th wheel trailer + one ton pickup truck, etc) so that we can better adapt to planet's failure to mitigate climate change... which we believe is in the mail for the next couple of decades or so. Will settle down when we have to, geography to be determined.
Actually a well built underground house tends to be safer than above ground houses in a quake. One of the first things for retrofitting a standard stick frame house for earthquakes is to anchor the house to the ground, so the house will move with the ground rather than the ground shifting and the house staying still. An underground home by nature is part of the ground and moves with the ground in an earthquake quite well.
"Once a man has seen society's black underbelly, he can never turn his back on it. Never pretend, like you do, that it doesn't exist"

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with ME!"


ZS Wiki ZS Acronyms

Gun Self Defense Counter

KevinAxelrod
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:22 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: 28 Days Later of course
Location: Valley Cottage NY
Contact:

Re: Building a House: redundant utilities ideas

Post by KevinAxelrod » Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:42 pm

I work in project management and was just going to post a question about the concept of redundancy/avoiding single points of failure in the survivalist community as I haven't seen it discussed much. I'm glad I found this thread because apparently it is an important and talked about concept.

Post Reply

Return to “Contingency Planning & Preparation”