China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Maeklos » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:34 pm

The French defense minister has come out and called for active patrolling of the South China Sea to ensure the law of the sea and freedom of navigation. The article I read cited the possibility the France was looking to keep access to its own Pacific holdings secure, but it doesn't look like the SCS cuts off access to any French holdings - in fact, it appears easier to reach French Polynesia by steaming across the Atlantic and passing through the Panama Canal, or even sounding the tip of South America. But I'm no sailor, so who knows.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/europeans-pus ... 39564.html
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:11 am

The EU has a lot of trade that flows through that area and also they work with ASEAN. Prior to 2014 they signed a Partnership And Cooperation agreement with Indonesia and the EU has always been a supporter about the Code of Conduct in the South China Sea. The EU has been busy dealing with the Middle East spillover but seems to have belatedly decided they need to stop China's takeover.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Maeklos » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:43 am

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the International Court of Law hands down its ruling this month. China seems dead set on thumbing its nose at the world. This seems like an 'annexing of the Sudetenland' moment.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:33 pm

This seems like
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:02 pm

Those two warrior scouts are bummed out because they looked on the bottom of the "antique" clock and saw this

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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by mantis » Sun Jun 12, 2016 3:08 pm

Not sure how much of a hair trigger the Chinese could put their nuclear weapons on. Their primary delivery system is a copy of the old Titan II missile made from stolen plans. The Titan II uses volatile cryogenic fuels - liquid hydrogen and oxygen and cannot be stored fueled. It takes a minimum of a couple of hours to fuel the missiles and once fueled, they can only remain that way for a short period of time - 24 hours or less before being launched or de-fueled.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:11 pm

mantis wrote:Not sure how much of a hair trigger the Chinese could put their nuclear weapons on. Their primary delivery system is a copy of the old Titan II missile made from stolen plans. The Titan II uses volatile cryogenic fuels - liquid hydrogen and oxygen and cannot be stored fueled. It takes a minimum of a couple of hours to fuel the missiles and once fueled, they can only remain that way for a short period of time - 24 hours or less before being launched or de-fueled.

The 1970's (I think) liquid fueled DF5 series is just one sixth of their arsenal. The DF31 and 31A as well as the sub launched and rail launched missles are much more modern. Their arsenal is small but potent.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Maeklos » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:48 am

After reading the blurbs coming out of the Pentagon, it seems like China is more interested in pushing ahead in the field of hypervelocity missiles. China knows that NATO won't initiate a nuclear first strike on it, and probably doesn't believe that Russia will, either. So they maintain a modest "stand off" nuclear arsenal.

However, being able to deploy large numbers of small, multi-mach missiles to devastate fleets and ground installations fits in with what seems to be their current area of military interest: ensuring Chinese hegemony for their part of the world. American carrier groups allow massive power projection around the world - but if you are able to take out the carriers, that power projection plummets to a fraction. I think this is why America has restarted its battleship programs, with an eye towards implementing railgun and other new-ish technologies: if you cut out the carrier from a carrier group, you still want warships able to project long-range firepower. Cruise missiles can do that - but they are large, expensive, and finite in number. And conventional naval guns are lacking for anything more than shelling in support of landing operations and maybe a few miles inland.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:12 pm

Maybe not restarting the old school battleships but turning destroyers into battleships by giving them rail guns?

What I did not read until just now is that the Tungsten core of the railgun round is just the initial dumb rock but that they have field tested some smart artillery munitions and plan to develop smart rail gun rounds if they can harden the electronics to survive the launch forces. What was interesting is that the railgun barrels will last 1,000 rounds so I'm wondering how in the heck they swap one out? The WSJ article I read said that they do not envision shooting down missiles with these rail guns but that was the original vision of President Reagan's SDI (Star Wars) plan.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Maeklos » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:27 pm

Smart railgun munitions would be a massive technology boost on par with smart bombs and guided missiles. As it is, a conventional 'dumb' round from a naval-class railgun can hit targets more than a hundred miles inland. If you become able to add the sort of technology seen in the current generation of tank munitions, it becomes a whole new ballgame. You essentially get to launch guided missiles that impart mass explosive force through sheer kinetic energy release rather than an actual explosive compound. All for a few thousand dollars per shot rather than the millions that it takes to launch a conventional cruise missile.

And yeah, a railgun isn't great for shooting down a missile - it's essentially an overpowered conventional cannon that uses electromagnetism instead of chemical propellant. The best missile defenses are still large quantities of smaller rounds (like the Phalanx system) for point defense, or anti-missile missiles for longer distances. But again, these have limited success - especially against large-scale drone attacks. The Phalanx system itself has a 0% success rate in shooting down every single drone in swarms as small as 20 targets.
Politics is like having two handfuls of shit - one that smells bad and one that looks bad - and having to decide which one to put in your mouth.

"If the Russian flag were accurate, it would depict half a cabbage, a bottle of vodka, and a cold man dying for the Motherland."

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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:49 pm

Y-20 "Chubby Girl" is China's version of the C-17 Globemaster

http://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/ ... raft-y-20/

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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Maeklos » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:57 am

Here's an interesting article based on things said by an outgoing Air Force officer from the Pentagon about how the F-35 and F-22 will be used in a future war with China. Reading through it, it makes sense. But there are many things that don't add up. Namely, in the first part, it talks about how stealth-based aircraft (B-2, B-21, F-22, F-35) will be the only ones able to operate effectively due to enemy radar and radio superiority. But then it goes on to talk about how it will be vital for our fighters to be able to maintain connectivity with C3 operations in order to be continuously mobile, to receive objectives and intelligence while already in-flight, and to relay intel back to coordinators at far-behind-the-lines bases. Which doesn't jive if you're operating under the assumption that communications are going to be disrupted or even blacked-out by the enemy.

Anyway, worth a gander.

http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2016/ ... na/129562/
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:20 am

Thanks for the article!

The phrase I noted was "...tries to jam.." which I believe is pointing out that newer planes have better radar and radios that are not easy to jam.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:55 pm

The eastern Siberia military district includes part of Mongolia's Northern border. Google map this: Ulan-Ude, Buryatia, Russia

Russian Tor-M2U air defense system arrives in Siberia

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 467813208/
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Asymetryczna » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:00 pm

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by raptor » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:09 pm

I remember discussions in the press where people said NATO in effect agreed not to expand westward when East Germany collapsed.

Still I would argue that NATO did not expand, but rather the Warsaw Pact States shifted sides and they came to NATO and the EU and asked admittance. IIRC EU status confers some sort military protection to the member state from the other EU members.

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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Asymetryczna » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:46 am

Mostly agree. I cannot seem to find anything about ink to paper though...handshakes, heard someone said, and discussions do not constitute a binding agreement.

The Decision on the South China Sea should be interesting to watch but isn't this really just the games that nations play? Threat levels can rise and fall on a daily basis as long as leaders do not think in absolutes. In screening all open news sources one would find it difficult to determine the crux of any one sided argument but I found this BBC article listing several good ones.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:35 pm

One other possible outcome

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anderscorr/ ... 4b2f61750b

"China issued a veiled threat against the Sierra Madre two days after the Sierra Madre protest by KAI. A spokesman from the Chinese Foreign Ministry, Wu Qian, spoke to a reporter from the People’s Daily, China’s official party newspaper. The paper linked potential towing of the Sierra Madre by China to the outcome of the PCA case to be decided on July 12."
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Asymetryczna » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:13 pm

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau

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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:37 pm

Pretty much China has already decided they will not be open to any further discussion

The territorial dispute over the South China Sea should not be part of a discussion at the Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) in Mongolia at the end of the week, a senior Chinese diplomat said Monday. The South China Sea territory has been long debated, with Beijing laying claim to most of the region.

Chinese Assistant Foreign Minister Kong Xuanyou said that the summit, which happens once every two years, is designed to discuss issues between Asia and Europe, and discussion about South China Sea will not be welcomed at the event. The summit will be the first multilateral diplomatic gathering after the July 12 ruling by an arbitration court hearing related to the dispute between China and the Philippines over the South China Sea.

"The ASEM leaders summit is not a suitable place to discuss the South China Sea. There are no plans to discuss it there on the agenda for the meeting. And it should not be put on the agenda," Kong said.


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http://www.ibtimes.com/south-china-sea- ... be-2390385
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Dabster » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:32 pm

teotwaki wrote: July 12 ruling
Gonna be an interesting week...
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by Asymetryczna » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:49 am

The judgment by an international tribunal in The Hague is overwhelmingly in favour of claims by the Philippines and will increase global diplomatic pressure on Beijing to scale back military expansion in the sensitive area.
China reacted angrily to the verdict, which declares large areas of the sea to be neutral international waters.
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:21 am

The Communist party mouthpiece newspaper the People’s Daily said “The Chinese government and the Chinese people firmly oppose [the ruling] and will neither acknowledge it nor accept it,”

Speaking to reporters Wang Yi, China’s foreign minister, said: “Chinese people will not accept the result and all people around the world who uphold justice will not accept the result.”

“Now the farce is over it is time to get back to the right track,” Wang added, hinting that Beijing would now be willing to enter into negotiations with the Philippines “over the South China Sea issue”.

That "hint" will be interesting if it develops further.
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Re: China MAY Put its Nuclear Weapons on High Alert

Post by teotwaki » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:10 pm

found a good pix of the poor old Sierra Madre

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