20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5 days

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20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5 days

Post by Maast » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:14 am

Nutritional yeast. Its 18% carbs, 11% fats, and 71% protein - its just about the perfect food. And it evidently tastes pretty good too - kind of nutty from what I'm reading.

It'd be a hell of a supplement to a preppers food supplies, in a (severe) pinch maybe even the primary source of nutrition.

Lawn grass is probably the #1 by far potential food source possible, it grows practically everywhere, fast, and just about every homeowner in the country has harvesting equipment at hand.

Its completely possible to ferment grass with yeast, the 20 pound yield is being very conservative.

The grass has to be first chopped up finely, then treated with wood ash lye (like what they do with corn to make nixtamal), initially fermented with aspergillus niger (the mold on onions) to break out the sugars, strained to remove grass remnants and the A niger, then fermented with yeast, and finally the yeast is strained out, washed, and then baked to dry it out and kill it (or you could briefly boil it). The same process is done with aspergillus oryzae on rice to make sake.

There's a lot more detail to it than that but that's the gist of it.

If you don't aerate a yeast ferment you get ethanol, if you do aerate it you get more yeast. Lots and lots and lots and lots of yeast.

I can't think of anything that has better potential to produce so much nutrition so fast as yeast. The texture and taste might not be the best but its better than starving. People already eat yeast, the Australians have vegemite, and vegans eat it as well for its nutrition value and all the B12 it has as well.

Something to think about.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by woodsghost » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:58 am

Wow, thanks!!!! I'll have to look more at this.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by azrancher » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:51 am

Maast wrote:If you don't aerate a yeast ferment you get ethanol, if you do aerate it you get more yeast.
Do you get ethanol, or methanol?

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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by duodecima » Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:10 pm

I find it a little bitter myself but it can certainly be added to things to add protein.

It shows up in SF stories sometimes, regarding what people would eat living on space stations/ships isolated from a planetary ecology.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Trippy » Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:41 pm

azrancher wrote:
Maast wrote:If you don't aerate a yeast ferment you get ethanol, if you do aerate it you get more yeast.
Do you get ethanol, or methanol?

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Mostly ethanol, with a bit of methanol. The methanol only matters if you distill the alcohol. Methanol boils at a lower temperature than ethanol, so you would have to get rid of the first bit of distillate to keep the spirit safe.

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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Maast » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:51 pm

azrancher wrote: Do you get ethanol, or methanol?
Out of grass you get almost zero methanol, methanol is produced in mashes that have a lot of pectinic protein, like apples or other fruit. And even at that its only a trace amount.

You'd consume more methanol eating an apple.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Sun Yeti » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:12 pm

By strange coincidence, I was eating nutritional yeast as I opened this thread. I put it on pasta and other things; I treat it as a condiment, like Parmesan. Also a very common ingredient in veggie burgers. I'm having a hard time imagining eating pounds of the stuff, I think I would likely not react to that very well. Have you tried this process to create your own nutritional yeast, or is this just something you read?

If anyone is curious to try it, you can find nutritional yeast in the bulk food section of any decent health food store.

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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Confucius » Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:24 pm

Nutritional yeast is tasty stuff. Kind of a cheesy flavor. Good on popcorn.

I am curious about this. Have you ever done this, or is it a hypothetical? What you're describing is more or less the basic process for enzymatic cellulosic ethanol. Was not aware of any successful implementations on anything but a laboratory scale.

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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Black Beard » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:19 am

Isn't this just silage (often used as animal fodder)?

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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Ad'lan » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:10 am

Black Beard wrote:Isn't this just silage (often used as animal fodder)?
Not really, this is kind like making silage, then feeding it to very tiny cows. Humans cannot get much nutiment from silage, we need an intermediate organism.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Stercutus » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:12 am

I am confused I have always heard that nutritional yeast was low in digestible material for humans.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by duodecima » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:29 pm

There's some interesting common misinformation out there on nutritional yeast - for example I had believed that it was a source of B12 (for vegans). However, commercial nutritional yeast is fortified with B12 and does NOT naturally produce it.

Everything I'm seeing says that it's got a little carb and some protein (9g/2T) and that it's a complete protein (has all the amino acids we can't make ourselves) so if for some reason you only had rice (or only beans) adding some of this would help patch that gap. It has a very small amount of iron naturally.

I also had no idea the vegemite and marmite were made from yeast, either. I can't find any information on digestibility but the ok sources I have found (that aren't clearly fully of barnyard waste) don't mention any issues with it.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by ZombieGranny » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:28 pm

http://www.livestrong.com/article/17619 ... nal-yeast/
Nutritional Discrepancies
Nutritional yeast offers substantial amounts of niacin, folic acid, zinc, selenium and thiamine. Manufacturers often fortify nutritional yeast with vitamin B-12. For vegans, this is an essential addition because they are susceptible to B-12 deficiency since the vitamin is usually found only in animal-derived products. Nutritional yeast also offers a number of essential amino acids, the building blocks of protein.
Brewer's yeast offers an array of B-complex vitamins, selenium and protein, but it's also rich in chromium, a trace mineral that regulates blood sugar levels. Brewer's yeast does not provide vitamin B-12, while nutritional yeast does not provide chromium. Vegans looking for a B-12 supplement should stick to nutritional yeast rather than brewer's yeast.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Maast » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:37 am

Confucius wrote:Nutritional yeast is tasty stuff. Kind of a cheesy flavor. Good on popcorn.

I am curious about this. Have you ever done this, or is it a hypothetical? What you're describing is more or less the basic process for enzymatic cellulosic ethanol. Was not aware of any successful implementations on anything but a laboratory scale.
I've done it in a 5 gallon benchtop scale, with a distillers yeast not nutritional yeast (slightly different strain). Its all standard brewing with the exception of the trouble I had raising a "crop" of aspergillus niger on a tray of moist liquefied grass and keeping it warm - and a large picnic cooler, stc-1000 dual relay temp controller, a ceramic lightbulb, and cooling coil hooked up to a pump w/ a 30 gallon barrel solved that.

BTW, I had to let it dry out before it would produce lots of spores.

I added water (3/4 grass 1/4 water by volume) and ran the grass through a garbage disposal several times (turns out they work pretty good as a pump too) which gave me a thick green stringy soup/goo.
Pretreated it in a 6 gallon bucket with the potassium hydroxide (ordered from Duda Diesel) at .5% w/v which brought the pH to 8.9, let it cook at 21C for 12 hours (aquarium heater), used brewing citric acid to bring the ph to 7 and then inoculated the grass with 3/4 of my A niger crop and let that cook at 30C for 72 hours while being aerated (aquarium air stone) and stirred whenever I remembered to do it.

The A niger is some cool stuff - it turned my thick green goo into a brownish almost clear fluid with little bits of stringy stuff floating in it.

Poured it all in a huge stock pot and very slowly brought it up to boil with a long step at 43C for the enzymes to finish working (didn't seem to make a difference), poured it through a filter bag back into the (cleaned) fermenter and pitched the dry yeast (I know I should have done a starter, this was a proof-of-concept so I didn't bother) at 30C.

And this is where I screwed up, I only wanted to aerate the ferment for a half hour, but I forgot to turn off the damn pump - and its so quiet that I didn't hear it over the other noise. So I ended up aerating it for the entire 5 days before I realized it wasn't just carbon dioxide coming up through the airlock so I popped the lid on my bucket and saw that the bucket was literally filled half full of yeast.

I wanted to produce ethanol, but instead I made a ton of yeast.

That's when I realized "you know, I could eat that and it would feed me for a easy couple of days" and it smells good too. Then I looked up nutritional yeast and how it's processed so people can eat it.

So I posted it here. Havent mentioned it on the distilling forum because its a stupid newbie mistake.

BTW, I don't think I needed to add the citric acid, further reading tells me that A niger grows well up to a ph of 10 and it'll acidify the mash all on its own.

Edit; forgot to mention that I added a tbsp of DAP when I pitched the A niger spores.

Edit2; I got the A niger from a moldy onion that I liquefied along with the grass through the garbage disposal for the picnic cooler A niger crop.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Ad'lan » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:13 am

You are akin to the prince of serendip.

How's does the yeast taste.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by sheddi » Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:19 pm

duodecima wrote:I also had no idea the vegemite and marmite were made from yeast, either. I can't find any information on digestibility but the ok sources I have found (that aren't clearly fully of barnyard waste) don't mention any issues with it.
Marmite is/was a by-product of the brewing industry. You can occasionally buy themed Marmite or Marmite-like products (I recall one made with Guinness yeast).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite#Special_editions

You would have to be all-kinds of desperate to eat 2000 cal/day of Marmite :o
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Ad'lan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:35 pm

sheddi wrote:
duodecima wrote:I also had no idea the vegemite and marmite were made from yeast, either. I can't find any information on digestibility but the ok sources I have found (that aren't clearly fully of barnyard waste) don't mention any issues with it.
Marmite is/was a by-product of the brewing industry. You can occasionally buy themed Marmite or Marmite-like products (I recall one made with Guinness yeast).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite#Special_editions

You would have to be all-kinds of desperate to eat 2000 cal/day of Marmite :o
Marmite and/or Vegimite was included in Rat. Packs. I've no idea why, as a single tube was more than any marmite lover could consume in a day and for those in the hate it camp, it was just junk, as we couldn't trade it for nothing.

I do find a good use for it in stocks and soups, but other than that, it's something to be scraped on your crumpets then scraped off.

Whereas the nutritional yeast I've had was just like parmesan, turned plain buttered spaghetti into a delicious meal.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by grumpyviking » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:39 pm

humans cannot eat grass, why do you think cows have 4 stomach's?? we don't.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Stercutus » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:14 pm

grumpyviking wrote:humans cannot eat grass, why do you think cows have 4 stomach's?? we don't.
Ok, this thread is not about eating grass.

This thread is about eating yeast grown from a grass medium.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:18 pm

grumpyviking wrote:humans cannot eat grass, why do you think cows have 4 stomach's?? we don't.
That's why the yeast eats it first, then you eat the yeast. Same thing we do with cows.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Stercutus » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:25 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
grumpyviking wrote:humans cannot eat grass, why do you think cows have 4 stomach's?? we don't.
That's why the yeast eats it first, then you eat the yeast. Same thing we do with cows.
:shock:

Yeast eats cows?
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:29 pm

Stercutus wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
grumpyviking wrote:humans cannot eat grass, why do you think cows have 4 stomach's?? we don't.
That's why the yeast eats it first, then you eat the yeast. Same thing we do with cows.
:shock:

Yeast eats cows?
See now I have to go find out if there are carnivorous yeasts.
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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by Ad'lan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:51 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Stercutus wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
grumpyviking wrote:humans cannot eat grass, why do you think cows have 4 stomach's?? we don't.
That's why the yeast eats it first, then you eat the yeast. Same thing we do with cows.
:shock:

Yeast eats cows?
See now I have to go find out if there are carnivorous yeasts.
Very few Fungi that are actively considered Carnivorous, lots that eat dead animals or parts thereof though (Like genital yeast, AFAIK*).



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Re: 20lbs of protein/carbohydrates from 50lbs of grass in 5

Post by TacAir » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:28 pm

Maast wrote:
Confucius wrote:Nutritional yeast is tasty stuff. Kind of a cheesy flavor. Good on popcorn.

I am curious about this. Have you ever done this, or is it a hypothetical? What you're describing is more or less the basic process for enzymatic cellulosic ethanol. Was not aware of any successful implementations on anything but a laboratory scale.

Edit2; I got the A niger from a moldy onion that I liquefied along with the grass through the garbage disposal for the picnic cooler A niger crop.
Thanks for sharing the details. Reads like an episode of "Better Living Thru Chemistry" - IOW, quite interesting. Loved the use of the garbage disposal....
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