St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

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St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:22 pm

This is an article from the New York Times, which echoes recent articles in both the St. Louis Post Dispatch and the St. Louis American newspapers this week:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/us/fe ... .html?_r=0

I'm putting it here because many in the area -- and in other parts of the country -- are actively preparing for expected backlash following the St. Louis County grand jury's ruling on if officer Darren Wilson should be charged with a crime. In example, from the article in the Times:
“We’re focused on the preservation of life and property,” Jon Belmar, the chief of the county police, said in an interview. His department spent $37,741 in October on helmets, shields, batons and shin guards.

A central goal, some law enforcement officials said, is to ensure that peaceful demonstrators are able to voice their views while also preventing violence.

The St. Louis Police Department has spent $325,000 on new equipment, including riot gear; sent 350 officers to training sessions on how to manage civil disobedience; and met with police chiefs from other communities around the nation that have dealt with unrest... “We’ll be prepared to respond,” said D. Samuel Dotson III, the chief in St. Louis.
The point of this post is discussion: What have you done so far to prepare? What are you planning to do in the next week or three to prepare, before the grand jury releases it's ruling?

This is NOTa discussion of politics. It is simply a place to discuss preparing for what many consider an unavoidable, inevitable repercussion of the grand jury's decision, whatever that decision winds up being.
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Stercutus » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:12 pm

This is not a disaster. It could be linked back to the other Ferguson protests in which case it should be in that thread.
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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by majorhavoc » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:25 pm

Agreed. This is not an appropriate post for DCE.

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:21 pm

Okay. Sorry if I put it in the wrong category. Mod person, please put it where you think it's appropriate.
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Elrikk » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:57 pm

How is "Civil Unrest" resulting in riots and looting NOT a disaster?

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by majorhavoc » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:11 pm

Elrikk wrote:How is "Civil Unrest" resulting in riots and looting NOT a disaster?
Because civil unrest in the aftermath of the St. Louis grand jury decision hasn't happened yet. So it's neither a disaster nor is it current.

And to the extent that one suggests it's a forgone conclusion is arguing both what the grand jury determination is going to be and how people are going to react to it. Both arguments are fraught with political implications.

The grand jury deliberations are part of the ongoing aftermath of the shooting in Ferguson. As Stercutus has pointed out we already have a dedicated discussion about that.

See also:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14549

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by itzybitzyspyder » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:39 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
Elrikk wrote:How is "Civil Unrest" resulting in riots and looting NOT a disaster?
Because civil unrest in the aftermath of the St. Louis grand jury decision hasn't happened yet. So it's neither a disaster nor is it current.

And to the extent that one suggests it's a forgone conclusion is arguing both what the grand jury determination is going to be and how people are going to react to it. Both arguments are fraught with political implications.

The grand jury deliberations are part of the ongoing aftermath of the shooting in Ferguson. As Stercutus has pointed out we already have a dedicated discussion about that.

See also:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=14549
Did you read the rules link you offered to prove your case? Evidently not.
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"Social upheaval" is the category it falls under. Is it a current event? Yes, the possibility is a current one because it's "threatening to harm people's lives". This thread deserves to stand on it's own unless a mod says otherwise. The OP specifically stated that the purpose of the thread was to ascertain what sort of preps you may or may not have in place to deal with the possibility of the civil unrest that may occur. The cause of said riots is really irrelevant to the question he posed.
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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by LJ126 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:56 pm

Hehe, WELL...

If you aren't prepared for rioting and looting, you aren't prepared. These things follow virtually every major disaster, and is simply an extension of personal defense.

On the issue at hand, I'll refrain from a reply to that. But you better be ready, if it gets big, it'll be nasty. REALLY NASTY. I don't intend this to be fear mongering, but every major PD in the STL area is anticipating monumental levels of civil unrest.
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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by absinthe beginner » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:11 am

If you aren't prepared for rioting and looting, you aren't prepared. These things follow virtually every major disaster, and is simply an extension of personal defense.
Concur. Virtually any man-made or natural disaster that sees local or state authorities overwhelmed has the potential to see opportunistic looting or worse by criminals as well as the desperate or amoral. Any prudent preparedness strategy will take into account the possible need to defend oneself and one's property, as well as family, friends, neighbors, etc., along with being prepared to ride out scenarios of violent unrest with all that that entails. However, the dire scenarios being projected with regard to Ferguson are speculative and thus it seems premature and maybe ill-advised to get too caught up in prognosticating what MIGHT or might not come to pass if the grand jury declines to prosecute the officer involved.

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by LJ126 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:18 am

absinthe beginner wrote:
...However, as the mod has noted, the dire scenarios being projected are speculative and thus it seems premature and maybe ill-advised to get too caught up in prognosticating what MIGHT or might not come to pass if ...
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

While it may be ill-advised to get overly caught up in what might happen, isn't speculation of things that very well may come to pass PRECISELY what we should talking about? Is it not the very heart and soul of preparedness?
...As the great warrior poet O'Shea "Ice Cube" Jackson, Sr. once said, "If the day does not require an AK, it is good."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by duodecima » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:41 am

Given the tendency of the other Ferguson/StL threads to drift, having one that is focused on preps just-in-case seems reasonable. And I'd leave it to the mods if it belonged in DICE or CP&P, but it's highly relevant in either place.
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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by KGBrick » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:23 am

I kinda agree that this doesn't belong in its own thread/in this section (yet) but as the most pertinent thread is still locked... meh. Glad I don't moderate internetstuff anymore.

Regarding what was discussed previously, I would suggest everyone near there decide how important your local property is. Your insurance won't cover riot damage. The police and fire department probably won't be able to save your property should rioting occur in your area. Necessary preparation stems from this decision.

If you are unwilling to see it burned to the ground or carried away you need to be around to prevent this. Be able to defend yourself, be prepared to invite over or go assist like-minded friends or family, double check your fire alarms and extinguishers, do a security-minded once-over of your property, and make sure you have what you need to stay there for however long you think the worst-case scenario might last.

If you can handle the property loss or consider the risks of staying too great, well, make sure you're ready to bug out. Might be a good time for a vacation. I still suggest you go over your property to make sure you've minimized the ease of breaking in and stealing all your stuff. There's a nice big thread in Contingency Planning & Preparation about this.

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by LJ126 » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:12 pm

Maybe we should work on an "Essential Preparations/Gear Checklist" for Rioting/Looting/Civil Unrest. That would be both on topic and relevant to the topic of discussion at hand, as well as reflect upon the STL issue (that is local to soooooo many of us here at the ZS forum.)

Obviously, all of the bugout issues need to be considered, though I'm reluctant to recommend bugging out for civil unrest. Generally, people are still expected to.... you know, go to work and stuff. But full tanks of gas, some reserves and readied BOBs is probably not a bad idea. Just in case you gotta stay in a hotel on the other side of town.

Anyone else wanna follow the path this direction?
...As the great warrior poet O'Shea "Ice Cube" Jackson, Sr. once said, "If the day does not require an AK, it is good."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Stercutus » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:34 pm

LJ126 wrote:
absinthe beginner wrote:
...However, as the mod has noted, the dire scenarios being projected are speculative and thus it seems premature and maybe ill-advised to get too caught up in prognosticating what MIGHT or might not come to pass if ...
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong:

While it may be ill-advised to get overly caught up in what might happen, isn't speculation of things that very well may come to pass PRECISELY what we should talking about? Is it not the very heart and soul of preparedness?
Sort of, but it is still not a "disaster in current events".
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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Neptune Glory » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:16 pm

LJ126 wrote:Maybe we should work on an "Essential Preparations/Gear Checklist" for Rioting/Looting/Civil Unrest. That would be both on topic and relevant to the topic of discussion at hand, as well as reflect upon the STL issue (that is local to soooooo many of us here at the ZS forum.)

Obviously, all of the bugout issues need to be considered, though I'm reluctant to recommend bugging out for civil unrest. Generally, people are still expected to.... you know, go to work and stuff. But full tanks of gas, some reserves and readied BOBs is probably not a bad idea. Just in case you gotta stay in a hotel on the other side of town.

Anyone else wanna follow the path this direction?
Yes, please... enough rhetoric about if this thread belongs in one area or another in the forum.

For my part, as a hospital worker, I park as close to work as I can even if I have to pay for it. I carry less lethal stuff into and out of work, just in case I'm accosted by a belligerent person. I also have the option of asking for an armed security guard to walk me to my car.

My house in St. Louis County recently got a professional alarm system installed, and I have lethal stuff available in the home and as a CCW person when I'm not actively on the clock at work. (I carry both the less lethal and the lethal stuff where legal, only the less lethal stuff where the lethal stuff isn't legal.)

I've started getting careful about not letting the gas tank get below 1/4 of a tank, and refueling during the daylight hours, at gas stations I'm comfortable with and have been using for years.

My world is to be home in the evening into the morning, and to drive to work and walk in and out of work safely in the daylight hours. If I hear there's trouble in a certain neighborhood or along a certain stretch of road or highway, I avoid it.

That's my prep for this unique situation, and my advice to folks.
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Elrikk » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:13 pm

Neptune Glory wrote:
LJ126 wrote:Maybe we should work on an "Essential Preparations/Gear Checklist" for Rioting/Looting/Civil Unrest. That would be both on topic and relevant to the topic of discussion at hand, as well as reflect upon the STL issue (that is local to soooooo many of us here at the ZS forum.)

Obviously, all of the bugout issues need to be considered, though I'm reluctant to recommend bugging out for civil unrest. Generally, people are still expected to.... you know, go to work and stuff. But full tanks of gas, some reserves and readied BOBs is probably not a bad idea. Just in case you gotta stay in a hotel on the other side of town.

Anyone else wanna follow the path this direction?
Yes, please... enough rhetoric about if this thread belongs in one area or another in the forum.

For my part, as a hospital worker, I park as close to work as I can even if I have to pay for it. I carry less lethal stuff into and out of work, just in case I'm accosted by a belligerent person. I also have the option of asking for an armed security guard to walk me to my car.

My house in St. Louis County recently got a professional alarm system installed, and I have lethal stuff available in the home and as a CCW person when I'm not actively on the clock at work. (I carry both the less lethal and the lethal stuff where legal, only the less lethal stuff where the lethal stuff isn't legal.)

I've started getting careful about not letting the gas tank get below 1/4 of a tank, and refueling during the daylight hours, at gas stations I'm comfortable with and have been using for years.

My world is to be home in the evening into the morning, and to drive to work and walk in and out of work safely in the daylight hours. If I hear there's trouble in a certain neighborhood or along a certain stretch of road or highway, I avoid it.

That's my prep for this unique situation, and my advice to folks.
-Neptune

You sound like you live in a third world country...how did we ever let things get so bad?

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by selen » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:17 am

Elrikk wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:
LJ126 wrote:Maybe we should work on an "Essential Preparations/Gear Checklist" for Rioting/Looting/Civil Unrest. That would be both on topic and relevant to the topic of discussion at hand, as well as reflect upon the STL issue (that is local to soooooo many of us here at the ZS forum.)

Obviously, all of the bugout issues need to be considered, though I'm reluctant to recommend bugging out for civil unrest. Generally, people are still expected to.... you know, go to work and stuff. But full tanks of gas, some reserves and readied BOBs is probably not a bad idea. Just in case you gotta stay in a hotel on the other side of town.

Anyone else wanna follow the path this direction?
Yes, please... enough rhetoric about if this thread belongs in one area or another in the forum.

For my part, as a hospital worker, I park as close to work as I can even if I have to pay for it. I carry less lethal stuff into and out of work, just in case I'm accosted by a belligerent person. I also have the option of asking for an armed security guard to walk me to my car.

My house in St. Louis County recently got a professional alarm system installed, and I have lethal stuff available in the home and as a CCW person when I'm not actively on the clock at work. (I carry both the less lethal and the lethal stuff where legal, only the less lethal stuff where the lethal stuff isn't legal.)

I've started getting careful about not letting the gas tank get below 1/4 of a tank, and refueling during the daylight hours, at gas stations I'm comfortable with and have been using for years.

My world is to be home in the evening into the morning, and to drive to work and walk in and out of work safely in the daylight hours. If I hear there's trouble in a certain neighborhood or along a certain stretch of road or highway, I avoid it.

That's my prep for this unique situation, and my advice to folks.
-Neptune

You sound like you live in a third world country...how did we ever let things get so bad?
I am a foreigner. May be I don't have a right to say anything about this issue. I'm not speaking specifically about the case in Ferguson because I do not know the details. However, I think in US the law enforcement gets away too easily when they kill an unarmed person. They say things like his/her hand touched his/her waist and I feared for my life and killed him/her. And they just get away with it without even spending one night in jail. So when the law enforcement have nothing to deter them, these events continue to happen over and over again. In foreign countries when police apprehend a person with a knife by using non lethal techniques they usually say "Oh if this was US he would certainly be dead now".

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Murphman » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:20 am

First...be safe everyone in St Louis County.

Secondly, I am 1,000 or so miles away from Ferguson, but about an hour from Sanford, Florida, where the George Zimmerman trial was held. Being outside the expected zone of influence of backlash, I was still concerned that if rioting took place in Sanford/Orlando that some close to my AO would take that opportunity to riot as well.

I double checked my hurricane supplies, including food, water, shutters, vehicles. I went over emergency protocols with everyone in my family. I cleaned my go to firearms (hate to say it, but this helps me relieve stress). I checked Twitter about 10 times as many times as I normally do leading up to the announcement of the verdict. I thanked _____ (insert whomever you thank) that nothing big came from the announcement.

We were as prepared for that event as we were for a hurricane, but thankfully, like most of our hurricane warnings since we have been here, nothing major materialized.
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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by PistolPete » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:22 am

This isn't a disaster, so I'm moving it to a more appropriate forum.
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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Neptune Glory » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:14 pm

Elrikk wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:
LJ126 wrote:Maybe we should work on an "Essential Preparations/Gear Checklist" for Rioting/Looting/Civil Unrest. That would be both on topic and relevant to the topic of discussion at hand, as well as reflect upon the STL issue (that is local to soooooo many of us here at the ZS forum.)

Obviously, all of the bugout issues need to be considered, though I'm reluctant to recommend bugging out for civil unrest. Generally, people are still expected to.... you know, go to work and stuff. But full tanks of gas, some reserves and readied BOBs is probably not a bad idea. Just in case you gotta stay in a hotel on the other side of town.

Anyone else wanna follow the path this direction?
Yes, please... enough rhetoric about if this thread belongs in one area or another in the forum.

For my part, as a hospital worker, I park as close to work as I can even if I have to pay for it. I carry less lethal stuff into and out of work, just in case I'm accosted by a belligerent person. I also have the option of asking for an armed security guard to walk me to my car.

My house in St. Louis County recently got a professional alarm system installed, and I have lethal stuff available in the home and as a CCW person when I'm not actively on the clock at work. (I carry both the less lethal and the lethal stuff where legal, only the less lethal stuff where the lethal stuff isn't legal.)

I've started getting careful about not letting the gas tank get below 1/4 of a tank, and refueling during the daylight hours, at gas stations I'm comfortable with and have been using for years.

My world is to be home in the evening into the morning, and to drive to work and walk in and out of work safely in the daylight hours. If I hear there's trouble in a certain neighborhood or along a certain stretch of road or highway, I avoid it.

That's my prep for this unique situation, and my advice to folks.
-Neptune

You sound like you live in a third world country...how did we ever let things get so bad?
We didn't. Things were bad before many of us were born. There's been progress in some areas, and no progress in others. The amount of protests and unrest, I think, are symptoms.

I'm just trying to apply what I learned in the Boy Scouts: Be Prepared.
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Neptune Glory » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:15 pm

PistolPete wrote:This isn't a disaster, so I'm moving it to a more appropriate forum.
Thanks, PistolPete! Sorry I placed it incorrectly in the first place.
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Neptune Glory » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:16 pm

selen wrote:
Elrikk wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:
LJ126 wrote:Maybe we should work on an "Essential Preparations/Gear Checklist" for Rioting/Looting/Civil Unrest. That would be both on topic and relevant to the topic of discussion at hand, as well as reflect upon the STL issue (that is local to soooooo many of us here at the ZS forum.)

Obviously, all of the bugout issues need to be considered, though I'm reluctant to recommend bugging out for civil unrest. Generally, people are still expected to.... you know, go to work and stuff. But full tanks of gas, some reserves and readied BOBs is probably not a bad idea. Just in case you gotta stay in a hotel on the other side of town.

Anyone else wanna follow the path this direction?
Yes, please... enough rhetoric about if this thread belongs in one area or another in the forum.

For my part, as a hospital worker, I park as close to work as I can even if I have to pay for it. I carry less lethal stuff into and out of work, just in case I'm accosted by a belligerent person. I also have the option of asking for an armed security guard to walk me to my car.

My house in St. Louis County recently got a professional alarm system installed, and I have lethal stuff available in the home and as a CCW person when I'm not actively on the clock at work. (I carry both the less lethal and the lethal stuff where legal, only the less lethal stuff where the lethal stuff isn't legal.)

I've started getting careful about not letting the gas tank get below 1/4 of a tank, and refueling during the daylight hours, at gas stations I'm comfortable with and have been using for years.

My world is to be home in the evening into the morning, and to drive to work and walk in and out of work safely in the daylight hours. If I hear there's trouble in a certain neighborhood or along a certain stretch of road or highway, I avoid it.

That's my prep for this unique situation, and my advice to folks.
-Neptune

You sound like you live in a third world country...how did we ever let things get so bad?
I am a foreigner. May be I don't have a right to say anything about this issue. I'm not speaking specifically about the case in Ferguson because I do not know the details. However, I think in US the law enforcement gets away too easily when they kill an unarmed person. They say things like his/her hand touched his/her waist and I feared for my life and killed him/her. And they just get away with it without even spending one night in jail. So when the law enforcement have nothing to deter them, these events continue to happen over and over again. In foreign countries when police apprehend a person with a knife by using non lethal techniques they usually say "Oh if this was US he would certainly be dead now".
Selen, I think you made a great point.
-Neptune
"When it comes to justifiable use of deadly force, you should seek to avoid confrontation, unless you have no choice and your life is on the line. This is easier to say than to do because it requires that you be calm and peace-loving throughout your life, but ready to use deadly force at any moment."

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by Stercutus » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:03 pm

You go 'round and around it
You go over and under
I go through

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Re: St. Louis Grand Jury Decision... pending

Post by hondo » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:57 pm

selen wrote:
Elrikk wrote:
Neptune Glory wrote:
LJ126 wrote:Maybe we should work on an "Essential Preparations/Gear Checklist" for Rioting/Looting/Civil Unrest. That would be both on topic and relevant to the topic of discussion at hand, as well as reflect upon the STL issue (that is local to soooooo many of us here at the ZS forum.)

Obviously, all of the bugout issues need to be considered, though I'm reluctant to recommend bugging out for civil unrest. Generally, people are still expected to.... you know, go to work and stuff. But full tanks of gas, some reserves and readied BOBs is probably not a bad idea. Just in case you gotta stay in a hotel on the other side of town.

Anyone else wanna follow the path this direction?
Yes, please... enough rhetoric about if this thread belongs in one area or another in the forum.

For my part, as a hospital worker, I park as close to work as I can even if I have to pay for it. I carry less lethal stuff into and out of work, just in case I'm accosted by a belligerent person. I also have the option of asking for an armed security guard to walk me to my car.

My house in St. Louis County recently got a professional alarm system installed, and I have lethal stuff available in the home and as a CCW person when I'm not actively on the clock at work. (I carry both the less lethal and the lethal stuff where legal, only the less lethal stuff where the lethal stuff isn't legal.)

I've started getting careful about not letting the gas tank get below 1/4 of a tank, and refueling during the daylight hours, at gas stations I'm comfortable with and have been using for years.

My world is to be home in the evening into the morning, and to drive to work and walk in and out of work safely in the daylight hours. If I hear there's trouble in a certain neighborhood or along a certain stretch of road or highway, I avoid it.

That's my prep for this unique situation, and my advice to folks.
-Neptune

You sound like you live in a third world country...how did we ever let things get so bad?
I am a foreigner. May be I don't have a right to say anything about this issue. I'm not speaking specifically about the case in Ferguson because I do not know the details. However, I think in US the law enforcement gets away too easily when they kill an unarmed person. They say things like his/her hand touched his/her waist and I feared for my life and killed him/her. And they just get away with it without even spending one night in jail. So when the law enforcement have nothing to deter them, these events continue to happen over and over again. In foreign countries when police apprehend a person with a knife by using non lethal techniques they usually say "Oh if this was US he would certainly be dead now".
You have to understand very simple concept like innocent until proven guilty, for example even if Grand Jury comes with decision that there is enough to charge officer Willson he is going to be innocent until proven guilty as in until trial ending in guilty verdict is completed.

They can not spend a night in the "jail" because for that to happen they have to be arrested , jail and prison are not one the same.
Again it depends on multiple factors and ability of the law enforcement officer to explain his or her fear for the life and such explanation must make sense to reasonable person, in the USA reasonable persons are judge, prosecutor and lawyer, on the other hand jury of your peers are regular persons and their understanding of the situation can be very different than that of the reasonable person.

First rule is do not argue with cops on the street you are going to lose that fight wait till your day in court there you have chance to win.

Now as far as grabbing waist depends who did it, if person was arrested multiple times for gun and violent crimes you are going to be in fear for your life. To give you example 85 year old guy swinging his walking cane at you from 25 yards/meters if you shoot him you are going to prison, now if same 85 year old gentleman struck you with a cane on the head and you are 3 feet/ 1 meter from him than if you shoot him you can explain fear for your life and no charges are going to be filed against you.

As far as a Ferguson case 6,4 feet 300 pound guy is never unarmed, we are capable of killing other humans with bare hands from age 12 for that reason fighting unless in life threatening situation is not acceptable.

Chris Rock explained that nicely[YouTube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ[/YouTube]

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