How much water storage?

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Evan the Diplomat
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:02 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:[
I figure that I drink about a quart of liquid - whether flavored or not - per day, on average, and if I was in a disaster situation where I might be clearing fallen trees (common in the Garden State), I'd double that.
If you're currently drinking a "quart" of liquid (meaning your total of water, milk, coffee, soda, juice and sports drinks) a day you are in a constant state of dehydration. If doctors recommend 8, 8oz glasses of water per day that's a half a gallon or two quarts.

So drink more and store more.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:28 pm

Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Sledgecrowbar wrote:[
I figure that I drink about a quart of liquid - whether flavored or not - per day, on average, and if I was in a disaster situation where I might be clearing fallen trees (common in the Garden State), I'd double that.
If you're currently drinking a "quart" of liquid (meaning your total of water, milk, coffee, soda, juice and sports drinks) a day you are in a constant state of dehydration. If doctors recommend 8, 8oz glasses of water per day that's a half a gallon or two quarts.

So drink more and store more.
Yeah, I think we're all familiar with the doctors' recommendation. If I had to drink half a gallon of anything in a day, I'd be pissing on those doctors' shoes for spite.

I'm acutely aware of being dehydrated, I get the headaches quickly, and if it happens I have enough trouble dragging myself to the nearest sink to gulp down faucet water until I'm OK again. Either my requirements are unique to me, or I was estimating low. It's possible I'm leaving out one of the cups of coffee through the day.

As an aside, coffee is something you want to avoid if you're trying to stretch finite drinking water, chemically it will pull water out of your body.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:27 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:
Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Sledgecrowbar wrote:[
I figure that I drink about a quart of liquid - whether flavored or not - per day, on average, and if I was in a disaster situation where I might be clearing fallen trees (common in the Garden State), I'd double that.
If you're currently drinking a "quart" of liquid (meaning your total of water, milk, coffee, soda, juice and sports drinks) a day you are in a constant state of dehydration. If doctors recommend 8, 8oz glasses of water per day that's a half a gallon or two quarts.

So drink more and store more.
Yeah, I think we're all familiar with the doctors' recommendation. If I had to drink half a gallon of anything in a day, I'd be pissing on those doctors' shoes for spite.
I used to be like that, drinking to stay hydrated and then pissing like a race horse. Have you ever been tested for type 2 diabetes?
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by duodecima » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:41 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote: My jugs are protected from temperature fluctuations and sunlight, so the only excuse they have for falling apart is the weight of the water they contain, so we'll see if they're designed to stand up to the very stress they were designed for indefinitely. Who knows, milk jugs may be thinner than actual gallon water jugs because the manufacturers probably realize that people would never try to store a few gallons of milk in a closet somewhere in case of emergency. Milk does have a decidedly short shelf life so the containers may not be the same spec. We come back to the whole "free and barely any effort" argument. This topic needs to be revisited in a few years when the first jug has seen all of the stress it's ever going to see in storage.
I am seeing about a 20% failure rate after 2.5 years with gallon water jugs stored at constant temp (65 F) ina dark dry place. They fail at any stress riser - any little dent in the container, or at the corners. I imagine stacking them makes it worse(I don't stack, they're on shelves.) Is annoying and slightly messy when they fail.

Fortunately, this is my fish tank's RO water supply, not my family's emergency drinking water - that's in reused 2L pop bottles and is doing just fine, zero failures in the same amount of time and conditions. I got the bottles off freecycle by asking politely, since we don't drink that much pop.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:56 am

duodecima wrote:I am seeing about a 20% failure rate after 2.5 years with gallon water jugs stored at constant temp (65 F) ina dark dry place. They fail at any stress riser - any little dent in the container, or at the corners. I imagine stacking them makes it worse(I don't stack, they're on shelves.) Is annoying and slightly messy when they fail.

Fortunately, this is my fish tank's RO water supply, not my family's emergency drinking water - that's in reused 2L pop bottles and is doing just fine, zero failures in the same amount of time and conditions. I got the bottles off freecycle by asking politely, since we don't drink that much pop.
This is some solid evidence. I'm gonna have to at least get some tubs if nothing more. It's all about doing it on the cheap and with passing effort so I stay motivated to keep building reserve. I'm just gonna have to lay out for good containers, eventually. I am at a good figure for per-person storage, though, which is what I was trying to figure out.
Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Sledgecrowbar wrote:Yeah, I think we're all familiar with the doctors' recommendation. If I had to drink half a gallon of anything in a day, I'd be pissing on those doctors' shoes for spite.
I used to be like that, drinking to stay hydrated and then pissing like a race horse. Have you ever been tested for type 2 diabetes?
Not recently, but I do get regular checkups. Is hydration consumption an indicator for it? I remember hiking Philmont in high school, that's one place you drink a gallon a day and it doesn't even get as far as your bladder. New Mexico is hot and dry.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:34 am

I remember my first time in Santa Fe, didn't realize how thirsty we were until after a morning walking tour of the town, we sat down for a little water and ended up drinking 3 liters each and neither of us had perspired a drop.

With diabetes is is sort of a vicious cycle, your blood sugar is high, your body urinates to expell the glucose, you get thirsty because you are peeing, so you drink more water because your body needs it to expell more glucose. Before I was diagnosed I was literally peeing every hour, on the hour at night. Made it hard to get any sleep.

Now with diet and medication I sleep the whole night.

If I can get back down to around 190 - 200 pounds I might be able to ditch the meds and just control it through diet and exercise.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Mad Mike » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:26 pm

For me storage is not an issue. I have a small stream (for washing, etc) running on the edge of my property; a regular well plus a hand pump well (for drinking water) that has not gone dry in over a hundred years. There have been several droughts where the neighbors came to get water from my well, so I don't see a reason to get very concerned about storage. I guess I'm luckier than most. :clap:

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by greenbeetle » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:37 pm

Conducted a several day experiment on whether 1 gallon of water per day was enough. Posted video results. It was a learning experience; for me 1 gallon of water/day was not correct.

Your needs depend on things like level of activity, ambient temperature, amount of sanitation and cleaning you;re undertaking, etc. For example I didn't have to wash any of my clothes in my experiment which might use quite a bit of water.

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by NamelessStain » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:23 pm

greenbeetle wrote:Conducted a several day experiment on whether 1 gallon of water per day was enough. Posted video results. It was a learning experience; for me 1 gallon of water/day was not correct.

Your needs depend on things like level of activity, ambient temperature, amount of sanitation and cleaning you;re undertaking, etc. For example I didn't have to wash any of my clothes in my experiment which might use quite a bit of water.
I think the 1 gal/day is for you to survive on average activity. Strenuous would would increase this requirement. Also you would wash your clothes every day. At the end of the week or every 2 weeks you would wash your clothes. It shouldn't take more than 2 gallons to wash your clothes. If it takes more than that, you need to rethink how you are washing clothes imo.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Isaholt669 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:49 am

I tried the 8 glasses of water (2L) a day thing. On a normal (inactive - leisurely walks, sitting at my desk, basic housekeeping day) I spent more time in the loo than was convenient. On an active day (playing outside, seriously cleaning the house) I needed double to keep the headaches at bay.

My theory - drink when thirsty. Your body tells you what it needs.

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by head_hunter29 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:03 am

Up until a few years ago, we were on our on well, but when the town came down our road and we were able to hook on to water through them, we did it. Since we no longer use the old well, I'm intending on converting it to the old fashioned hand-pump type for when there's power outages or a natural catastrophe. Should I still store some water even though I'm doing this, or is the well conversion enough? :?
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Black November » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:26 am

Storing Water in 1gallon milk jugs is a bad idea. Usually over 1-2 years the plastic will deteriorate, and the jugs will burst open flooding you house with water.

With that being said: You water bill is a good gauge of your current water consumption. Most people use about 100 gallons per day, or 300 gallons each day per household. Yes you can survive on 1-2 gallons a day during an emergency, but most people have never shut there water off for a week and tried it. It's tough.

Get yourself a good way to filter water and locate the nearest abundant water source. I know these are not the answer you are looking for, but in essences you are asking how long is a piece of string. If I had to determine a practical number that is obtainable for most families, I would say at least 250 gallons per household (rotated regularly). Something like this is a good start, and can be placed in the garage next to your water heater.

Here are some additional figures I found;
Bath A full tub is about 36 gallons.
Shower 2 gallons per minute. Old shower heads use as much as 5 gallons per minute.
Teeth brushing <1 gallon, especially if water is turned off while brushing. Newer bath faucets use about 1 gallon per minute, whereas older models use over 2 gallons.
Hands/face washing 1 gallon
Face/leg shaving 1 gallon
Dishwasher 4 to 10 gallons/load, depending of efficiency of dishwasher
Dishwashing by hand: 20 gallons. Newer kitchen faucets use about 2.2 gallons per minutes, whereas older faucets use more.
Clothes washer 25 gallons/load for newer washers. Older models use about 40 gallons per load.
Toilet flush 3 gallons. Most all new toilets use 1.6 gallons per flush, but many older toilets used about 4 gallons.
Glasses of water drunk 8 oz. per glass (did you remember to drink your 8 glasses of water today?)
Outdoor watering 5 to 10 gallons per minute
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by gundogs » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:37 am

head_hunter29 wrote:Up until a few years ago, we were on our on well, but when the town came down our road and we were able to hook on to water through them, we did it. Since we no longer use the old well, I'm intending on converting it to the old fashioned hand-pump type for when there's power outages or a natural catastrophe. Should I still store some water even though I'm doing this, or is the well conversion enough? :?
Many times a hand pump needs to be primed,especially from non-use, so you may want to store 10 gallons or so for that purpose

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by goblin » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:51 pm

Luckily I live 1/4 mile from a large lake, so transport is my concern.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Sledgecrowbar » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:30 pm

Black November wrote:Storing Water in 1gallon milk jugs is a bad idea. Usually over 1-2 years the plastic will deteriorate, and the jugs will burst open flooding you house with water.
I'm going up to check the oldest gallon. We'll see if it survives a few normal finger pokes while sitting in the sink. They all seemed to be really fine when I last went up a few days ago, but the temperature is very consistent and they're not exposed to much light at all. I also want to do a sniff check to see what kind of chlorine is left, since I can't see any visible mold.
Black November wrote:Most people use about 100 gallons per day, or 300 gallons each day per household. Yes you can survive on 1-2 gallons a day during an emergency, but most people have never shut there water off for a week and tried it. It's tough.
I'm at 60 per day, which I thought was a lot. Surviving on 1-2 gallons seemed unrealistic to me even though it was a commonly quoted figure by armchair badasses. I'd rather be prepared and comfortable than tough and miserable.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:35 pm

Sledgecrowbar wrote:
Black November wrote:Most people use about 100 gallons per day, or 300 gallons each day per household. Yes you can survive on 1-2 gallons a day during an emergency, but most people have never shut there water off for a week and tried it. It's tough.
I'm at 60 per day, which I thought was a lot. Surviving on 1-2 gallons seemed unrealistic to me even though it was a commonly quoted figure by armchair badasses. I'd rather be prepared and comfortable than tough and miserable.
2-4 gallons per day is enough to shave, wash dishes, and (you have to save up a week at a time) field shower/spongebath. It's not for comfort, it's bare survival.
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by gundogs » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:04 am

I keep a few milk jugs full of water near the chicken coop for refilling their bowl. I betcha the jugs are 5 years old.
One poster fears "flooding the house" with burst milk jugs. Even IF one burst I don't think it'd be catastrophic

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by ink » Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:59 am

goblin wrote:Luckily I live 1/4 mile from a large lake, so transport is my concern.
I'm in a similar situation, live about a 15-20 minute walk from a large lake so should provide plenty of water as long as I have the means to filter it. My thought is easiest long term solution would be a bicycle fitted to carry some 5 gallon buckets? One of those bicycle trailers could help you carry even more back home.

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by gundogs » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:16 pm

ink wrote:
goblin wrote:Luckily I live 1/4 mile from a large lake, so transport is my concern.
I'm in a similar situation, live about a 15-20 minute walk from a large lake so should provide plenty of water as long as I have the means to filter it. My thought is easiest long term solution would be a bicycle fitted to carry some 5 gallon buckets? One of those bicycle trailers could help you carry even more back home.
That's good,assuming it's safe to venture a mile or two. Best to have some stored closer,though

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by ink » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:51 pm

gundogs wrote:
ink wrote:
goblin wrote:Luckily I live 1/4 mile from a large lake, so transport is my concern.
I'm in a similar situation, live about a 15-20 minute walk from a large lake so should provide plenty of water as long as I have the means to filter it. My thought is easiest long term solution would be a bicycle fitted to carry some 5 gallon buckets? One of those bicycle trailers could help you carry even more back home.
That's good,assuming it's safe to venture a mile or two. Best to have some stored closer,though
Yeah, maybe I should have clarified, the plan is to have as much as makes sense stored at home and when that starts getting low replenish what was lost from that lake.

And regarding the safety, sure itd be nice to have an armored vehicle to go out in but for the longterm i just dont see that being too feasible. Who knows how long gasoline would be available or how long your stored gasoline would last? As long as normal maintenance is done to the bicycle and I am fit enough to ride it, should last for many years.

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by head_hunter29 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 2:59 pm

gundogs wrote:
head_hunter29 wrote:Up until a few years ago, we were on our on well, but when the town came down our road and we were able to hook on to water through them, we did it. Since we no longer use the old well, I'm intending on converting it to the old fashioned hand-pump type for when there's power outages or a natural catastrophe. Should I still store some water even though I'm doing this, or is the well conversion enough? :?
Many times a hand pump needs to be primed,especially from non-use, so you may want to store 10 gallons or so for that purpose
Thanks for the insight gundogs, we haven't even though of that!!
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:58 pm

Hey Everyone:

I have 10 55 Gallon barrels that I was using for water storage. One day the city inspector came thru, did a quick mental calculation of the weight on the floor and told me that they had to go or he would see a judge for an emergency eviction order. They were drained the next day and I am still trying to come up with a plan B.

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Re: How much water storage?

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:32 pm

Odinsown wrote:Hey Everyone:

I have 10 55 Gallon barrels that I was using for water storage. One day the city inspector came thru, did a quick mental calculation of the weight on the floor and told me that they had to go or he would see a judge for an emergency eviction order. They were drained the next day and I am still trying to come up with a plan B.

Odinsown
Were you living in a 7th floor apartment? Single family home? Doublewide? Might you be able to store the barrels outside of your house in the yard?
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Re: How much water storage?

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:06 am

Evan the Diplomat wrote:
Odinsown wrote:Hey Everyone:

I have 10 55 Gallon barrels that I was using for water storage. One day the city inspector came thru, did a quick mental calculation of the weight on the floor and told me that they had to go or he would see a judge for an emergency eviction order. They were drained the next day and I am still trying to come up with a plan B.

Odinsown
Were you living in a 7th floor apartment? Single family home? Doublewide? Might you be able to store the barrels outside of your house in the yard?
Hey Evan

I live on the second floor of an apartment building. I called a structural engineer and it seems that it really was troo much weight on the floor. I have no access to outside storage. I am trying to move into the basement but that may not be possible in this building. I may have to move somewhere else.

Odinsown

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