Is Height/Build important for Survival?

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MDCCLXXVI
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Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by MDCCLXXVI » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:24 pm

What is the best Height and/or Build for survival?

Skinny and small?

Big and tall?

etc

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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by majorhavoc » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:27 pm


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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:49 pm

Have you discovered a way to make yourself taller/shorter, or are you looking to recruit only the most fit for survival?

Off the top of my head, I'd say "can pass a PFT" tops any height/weight ratio.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Ableto » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:54 pm

Survival comes in all sizes. Big and tall can lug the heavy things around, but short and fast can get in and out of places faster then big and tall guys.

But really, its all down to what a person knows and uses to survive.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Sins » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:08 pm

majorhavoc wrote:
I thought you knew the rules. .. tsk tsk
Don't you know this song is illegal to play in Maryland. I am pretty sure we have Maryland members here. No shit... It really is illegal in Maryland

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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by MacAttack » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:47 am

The only thing I would worry about would be the extremes.

People either to large or to small to outfit normally. And in those cases they will just have to plan ahead for themselves.


As stated above general fitness is far more important.

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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Silent Kube » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:51 am

Sins wrote:
majorhavoc wrote:
I thought you knew the rules. .. tsk tsk
Don't you know this song is illegal to play in Maryland. I am pretty sure we have Maryland members here. No shit... It really is illegal in Maryland

Great now we have illegal stuff on the forum.

Sorry I can't type in blue font on tapatalk
Wouldn't be wise to post it in chat thread either. Some of the wimmens might take offense. Lol
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:29 am

As mentioned, size is only really an issue when trying to fit gear to the person. For instance, I have one student who is 18, and 6'-6", who I wouldn't want to have to buy clothes for. He grew a foot in a month when he was 16, and actually has stretch marks on his back from it- he shot up so fast, even his skin couldn't keep up! The same could be said for someone who is above-average heavy- finding clothing would be tougher, but still not impossible. Larger people tend to feel the cold less, thanks to a larger thermal mass, but smaller people tend to require less food, and it's a proven fact they suffer from less injuries than their taller counterparts, especially in the back injury department.

So, while big vs small comes out with certain advantages to either, overall, size really has little to do with the ability to survive. If there was a real advantage to one or the other, evolution would have bred for the strongest tendencies on it's own, and that doesn't appear to be the case.

Knowledge and skills would seem to trump any size considerations.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by TravisM.1 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:17 am

I'd say general health is more important than any height or size. If someone can't walk up a set of stairs without getting short of breath, it doesn't matter much how big and tall someone is.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by scotcat » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:33 am

TravisM.1 wrote:I'd say general health is more important than any height or size. If someone can't walk up a set of stairs without getting short of breath, it doesn't matter much how big and tall someone is.
This is what I'd say too.

I'm average height for a woman (5'4) but due to a combination of a high metabolism and genetics I'm about a stone under what they say is my 'ideal' weight - I've been like this all my life. I am healthy, quick and strong for my size. I'd say that makes up for what I lack in bulk.

On the flip side, my stepmother has a nephew. he's 6'6 heftily built (not anywhere near obese, just solid) and he's out of breath going up a few flights of stairs.

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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by maldon007 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:13 pm

I would say, mostly guessing, that all other things being equal, larger usually equals stronger & less apt to lose body heat as quickly... MAYBE less apt to be attacked by an animal..

But, then again, being smaller has advantages as well... Need less food/water to sustain... can fit into smaller spaces...

Maybe the answer is, play to your strengths :lol:
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Tater Raider » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:08 pm

Responding to the thread title: no.

Will to survive is most important, followed by skills, followed by tools at hand.

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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by wee drop o' bush » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:48 pm

In answer to the OP: No, I hope not as I'm only 4'11".
The only size/build that I can see being universally detrimental (regardless of skills/preps) to survival is morbidly obese...to the extent that movement is difficult.
But then that's detrimental to survival anyway.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Rev » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Would be amusing if we could pull data to test this one.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by slannesh » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:51 pm

To answer the OP's question, Yes, of course it is.

Is it the most important thing for survival? Not by a long shot. My brother and I are a great example of this. He's 5'8" 200ish lbs and built like a brick shithouse. He's in amazing shape, works out regularly, is in perfect health and wouldn't last 24 hours even with all the gear one could hope for in any sort of survival situation or bad weather. Why? No experience, no skills and no training.

I'm 6'1" 300lbs and in pretty piss poor shape. Yet I have decades of experience with backcountry travel, hunting, fishing and more recently search and rescue. Thankfully I'm also in good health and regularly spend time in inclement weather practicing skills in case I need to use them for real one day.

Will to live is by far the most important factor to survival. People who should have been long dead are found in relatively good shape on a frighteningly frequent basis just as there are people who are found dead near a backpack of untouched gear with everything they needed to survive for considerably longer than they were out for. Some people simply will not give up even when they should, and some people fall apart as soon as they realize they're in trouble.

Training, skills and experience would be next in my mind. So long as you have a bare minimum of gear you can make do in many situations if you know how and have the experience to do so.

Gear would be next, You can make yourself a lot more safe and/or comfortable with the right gear. Someone on here has the sig "There's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing"

Combine all three and you're in great shape, regardless of your height/build.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by raptor » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:00 pm

Some good answers so far.

IMO height /build is less important than for instance attitude, resiliency, training and knowledge.

Obviously basic physical fitness is important but if you are the best physical condition possible and in a SHTF situation you are mentally not able to cope with the trauma inherent in such situations you are no better off than the the stereotypical couch potato who does have the mental discipline to cope with the trauma.

There are many things that are important when it comes to survival. However, IMO nothing is more important than attitude and determination...other than maybe some good fortune.

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Last edited by raptor on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by OTTB » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:16 pm

I would have to agree with Raptor 100% on this. Basica physical fitness is a must but it's also heavily dependant on your midset. If you have the mental toughness to survive to weather any storm that comes your way I believe that is how you surive. It's sort of reminds me of that joke about the rules of a gunfight, "You may kill me with my own gun but you'll have to beat me to death with it because it will be empty", the situation may kill me but I will go down swinging and on my feet.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by stabbedmyface » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:55 pm

Bottom line, if you are overwieght and out of shape your chances of survival become zero to none. You are unable to carry yourself out of an area that requires evacuation. Your body and organs are more likely to become extremely fatigued and stressed from any form of exertion. You also become a liablity and burden for anybody in your team. If you become injured then you no longer are an asset but a liabilty. So, the size has nothing to do with it.
You may survive for a few days depending on the circumstances, but any long term survival requirements or scenrios will be an issue.

So ideally, if you are 5'9 then you should be in the 180-190 lbs (max) able to run two miles within 18 min and carry a basic survival load of an additional 35 lbs for at least 12 miles within a 6 hour period. Remember, your wieght will effect the survival of others if you become injured.

mOre than likely there will be some offended and agitated readers from this, but its the truth and if you are serious about survival in any situtation then just get over the feeling of hurt and face reality.

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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Sins » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:08 pm

stabbedmyface wrote:Bottom line, if you are overwieght and out of shape your chances of survival become zero to none. You are unable to carry yourself out of an area that requires evacuation. Your body and organs are more likely to become extremely fatigued and stressed from any form of exertion. You also become a liablity and burden for anybody in your team. If you become injured then you no longer are an asset but a liabilty. So, the size has nothing to do with it.
You may survive for a few days depending on the circumstances, but any long term survival requirements or scenrios will be an issue.

So ideally, if you are 5'9 then you should be in the 180-190 lbs (max) able to run two miles within 18 min and carry a basic survival load of an additional 35 lbs for at least 12 miles within a 6 hour period. Remember, your wieght will effect the survival of others if you become injured.

mOre than likely there will be some offended and agitated readers from this, but its the truth and if you are serious about survival in any situtation then just get over the feeling of hurt and face reality.
Yeah. . I am going to call bullshit on that.
Like another person stated, I as well am 6'1" 300lb.
Last year I went to the doctor.
I was a lab rat with all the tests they gave me.
Thyroid, EKG, that test where you blow for lung capacity, blood sugar, cholesterol, blood pressure, and probably ten other tests.
After two days of testing (yes I had to return for more testing) The doctor told me that she expected to find me riddled with problems and to her surprise she found none.
I have a clean bill of health.
I don't eat fast food or eat anything sugary. I stay away from sodas. I am fairly active for my age. My biggest vice was that I smoked, but I quit a little more than a year ago. I have put on lots of weight... However to say overweight equals "zero to none" is complete bullshit. I am no sprinter... But I can guarantee I can outwalk anyone. For shits and giggles I had my wife drive me to a neighboring town 30 miles away and drop me off to see if I could make it home in a day. It took me 11 hours. Sure that's not speedy. .. But nothing to scoff at either. So yeah. .. I call bullshit
I am not saying. Everyone should eat what they want and who gives a shit if your fat. But yeah. .. To assume I have zero to no chance of surviving kinda pisses me off a little.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by slannesh » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:35 am

stabbedmyface wrote:Bottom line, if you are overwieght and out of shape your chances of survival become zero to none. You are unable to carry yourself out of an area that requires evacuation. Your body and organs are more likely to become extremely fatigued and stressed from any form of exertion. You also become a liablity and burden for anybody in your team. If you become injured then you no longer are an asset but a liabilty. So, the size has nothing to do with it.
You may survive for a few days depending on the circumstances, but any long term survival requirements or scenrios will be an issue.

So ideally, if you are 5'9 then you should be in the 180-190 lbs (max) able to run two miles within 18 min and carry a basic survival load of an additional 35 lbs for at least 12 miles within a 6 hour period. Remember, your wieght will effect the survival of others if you become injured.

mOre than likely there will be some offended and agitated readers from this, but its the truth and if you are serious about survival in any situtation then just get over the feeling of hurt and face reality.

I'm neither agitated nor offended but I can't honestly say I agree with you either. There's a hell of a lot more to a survival situation than what kind of shape are you in. Granted, all other things being equal a guy in shape has an advantage over the guy who's out of shape, yes. But you obviously didn't read my real world example. I can pretty much guarantee my brother is in considerably better shape than you are. I can also guarantee that I would fare better in any sort of survival situation you can dream up other than "run faster than x or fit down small hole y"

Now would I survive a bad situation better 50lbs lighter with much better cardio knowing what I know and having the experience and skills I do? Absolutely. But zero to none? Please, get real. if that was even remotely accurate I wouldn't be around to have this conversation right now. Hell, I've personally gone out and found at least two different sets of people in better shape than I am this year that needed Search and Rescue to come get them. But wait, I'm downright tubby, that can't be possible can it?

In a real SHTF situation, anyone who gets seriously injured is plain and simply fucked, your weight and endurance has pretty much nothing to do with it. As I said before, will to live is a FAR greater asset than what sort of shape you're in.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Evan the Diplomat » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:02 am

MDCCLXXVI wrote:What is the best Height and/or Build for survival?

Skinny and small?

Big and tall?

etc
There is no "best"

Different body sized have advantages is different environments.

Real world examples: The Bantus of East Africa are very tall, well over 6 feet. They live, work and hunt in the great savannas. Being tall gives you an advantage to see potential game and to detect potential threats.

Go to the other side of the continent to West Africa where the pygmies are topping out at 4 feet tall. This gives them an advantage in the dense rain forest. They are short enough to use game trails that pass under the branches and foliage that would require a Bantu to hack his way through with a machete.

Similarly the native tribes of eastern Venezuela, where the jungle is dense are much shorter than the natives of western Venezuela where the terrain is rolling hills and scrub brush.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Silent Kube » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:10 am

Just my .02 but I'm admittedly a fat guy and I am working on getting in better shape. However, on hiking trips I am usually cresting the hill when many of my friends are panting half way up. I admit that I would be healthier were I to drop 100 pounds or so but on the rare occasion that I go to the doc they are always amazed at my general health. A few years ago I hurt my knee and had to have an ekg before surgery. I believe the words strong as an ox were used. Yes weight is of course a factor, but I don't think my weight puts my chances at zero.
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Jeriah » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:46 am

Here's where I come down on this:

We all have strengths and weaknesses. Honest self-analysis is important. Don't beat yourself up, don't puff up your ego, just take stock: what is YOUR weakest link? If you're overweight, or seriously underweight, don't cut your wrists, but don't defend it as no big deal, either. Do what you can to improve your situation.

If it's a height issue, there's less you can do about it, but there may be some points to note: short people need step stools, I need a hard hat. OK, that's silly, but you take my point: recognize that if you're short, you may cover less ground than someone with longer legs. On the other hand, if you're tall, you will be heavier for a given BMI, and therefore need more calories. (In other words, taller = more lean body mass; body fat is extra and varies.) So if you're short, budget more time to cover a distance on foot, and if you're tall, you'll probably end up packing more calories in food.

Right now, my situation, my honest self-analysis is:

I am tall. 6'5" at least, barefoot. I walk at a fast motherfucker of a pace. I can reach tall shit. Give you and me a pair of longswords, and I'm in range, while you're still out of range. I like being tall. It's convenient. On the other hand, I don't pack well; airline seats and many common vehicles are uncomfortable for me, pants often have to be special ordered in my length (36"), and I've realized I really ought to wear Size 15 boots, which are hard to find. OK, so I plan ahead, shop around, and try not to hit my head on shit. And also realize that on a hike, shorter people (everyone else), even of an equal fitness level, may not be able to keep up, just because I'm so damn tall.

I weigh...I think 260, last I checked. Really want to be more like 225, which would be really lean, but that's the weight cap on renting horses in Yosemite, and for some reason it's just sort of fixed in my mind that I'd like to end up there. National Guard says 236 is the weight cap for my height, so that's another benchmark I'd really like to make. So...24 lbs to National Guard, 35 to renting horses in Yosemite. So I've got goals. And I'm working on it: did some dumbbell exercises and cardio this morning, going to sword class tomorrow morning, etc. So that's my point: I've got an honest self-analysis, neither self-depricating nor delusional. And I'm working on it.

It's also important to keep shit in perspective. Like, my weight isn't really a big deal, in the grand scheme. If I weighed 300lbs, instead of 260, I would say it was a big deal, and I'd put it higher to the top of the list of shit to fix. (For me, not trying to take anyone else's inventory here.) But if I smoked a pack a day, that might be a bigger problem. So you've got to weigh your problems and keep 'em in perspective. (Incidentally, it's been 30 days since I've had a smoke; had a few on NYE and decided meh, I'll take some time off. Never smoked much to begin with so it's no big deal.)

Here is what I hate: giant, morbidly obese people who are super into guns, and think they're going to be some kind of badass when (acronym) occurs. No, you're not. You're going to do your best impression of a stationary gun emplacement in your Rascal, looking for defilade behind your CPAP, while everybody else books it out of town and gets to safety.

Here's what I love: giant, morbidly obese people who kick obesity in the fucking nuts, put it in a headlock, and give it noogies. I'm thinking of three friends right now, who were major, major fatties, who beat that shit and are now in decent to super-buff shape. One just shipped off to Ft. Benning yesterday, to be some badass airplane-jumper-outer-of-er. The other two are also rad dudes. So being heavy doesn't make you a bad person, but it's also not something you have to just live with. It's a problem, accept it as a problem, but don't ACCEPT it. Beat it. You can.

So that's what I'm thinking. Honest self-analysis, and the guts/balls/clit to fix the shit you can, and the stiff upper lip to suck it the fuck up when you can't. It's like a badass serenity prayer up in this bitch, secular to the max, yo, but good fucking advice. "Check your shit, fix what's fucked, and suck it the fuck up."
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Re: Is Height/Build important for Survival?

Post by Silent Kube » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:06 am

I don't think anyone is claiming to be some sort of overweight badass. But can there be no middle ground between I'm a straight up badass and I'm going to die right off because of my weight? Again, I'm working on it, but if shit should go down before I get where I want to be I seriously doubt I'll be the first to go. I know plenty of people at "prime target weight" that are far less healthy than I am. What I won't stand for is someone implying I'm somehow worthless because of my weight.
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