Bucket Storage How To

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Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:32 pm

OK, here it is. How to store food and stuff in a bucket or pail for long term storage.

1) Get a clean food-grade bucket and lid. If it's used, make sure it was used for food. Food grade plastics are denominated by a number inside three chasing arrows (the recycle logo). Numbers 1 and 2 are best. 4 and 5 are OK if you use a Mylar liner. 3, 6 and 7 are not OK. Edited to add from the tips posted below: You can use anything, a carboard box, a tupperware container or nothing at all if you are using a mylar bag. The bucket only gives mechanical support to protect the bag and make them stackable and provides a container to eat from later. A good bucket is more important if you don't use a liner. But you should use a liner.
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2) If you are using a Mylar liner, squeeze all the air out of it, then inflate it in your bucket with CO2 or Nitrogen. CO2 and Nitrogen are heavier than air so an open top won't release all the gas. The more air movement you have the more air will get into the bag though. Alternatively if you aren't purging the air, just put the liner in the bucket and open up. No big deal. In the picture you can see that there is a lot of extra bag sticking out of the top, there will be less when the bag is filled but still plenty to open and reseal the bag a few times.
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3) If you are purging the air, put in a desiccant pack sized for your bucket. If you are not purging the air, put in an oxygen absorber sized for your bucket. If you are using undersized dessecant or oxygen packs and have to use more than one, put some in the bottom, some in the middle and some on top. you can use an oxygen absorber if you have purged the air as well, doing double duty on oxygen removal. (what I generally do) The picture is of a 20 pack of oxygen absorbers. The pink eye tag is an exposure indicator, it turns blue when exposed to oxygen or open air so you know the absorbers are good if it's still pink.
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4) Put what you are putting in the bag in the bucket. Just pour it in. Yes this will disturb your purging gases. Fill to about 1" of the top of your bucket. In this case, white wheat.
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Toss those oxygen absorbers right in with the dry food. They won't harm the food, just don't eat the little packets and you are fine. I'm using two absorbers in this picture and one I'll push down into the food, the other I'll leave on top of the food. If you get them sized right when you buy them you only need one.
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5) If purging, put your gas hose into the bottom of the bucket and purge again. Do some math and make sure you use enough gas, and gently put it in, don't blast it in. Here's your math: One Gallon is 0.133680556 Cubic Feet. Therefore a six Gallon bucket will be 0.802083333 Cubic Feet. Set your regulator for a delivery of less than one Cubic Foot per Minute (CFPM) and wait a minute, literally. Like time it. No harm in putting in more, just make sure you put in at least this amount of gas.

6) If using a Mylar liner, now is the time to seal it. Pull the bag top taunt and seal away.
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Make sure you squeeze the air or gas out of the top of it so it will all stow in the bucket. The way I accomplish this is seal 90% of the seal but leave an inch or two unsealed at one of the sides of the bag. Then fold/squish the bag into the bucket, pull out that unsealed corner and seal it. If you just seal it up without smooshing it down, it'll never fit in the bucket.
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Make sure you check your seal to ensure it's a good one. If you have a lot of extra room at the top of the bag, seal it as near the top as possible. This makes the bag reusable later.

7) With scissors, make a little snip that'll let you open the bag later without a knife. Don't go too far and ruin your nice seal. I dare you to get one of these bags open with your bare hands.

8 ) Put your lid on but don't snap it down just yet.

9) Label it. Right now. Date it. Put the contents on it. Don't put it on the lid either, or if you do make sure you put it on the side too. It's hard to read lids when they are all stacked up.

10) Wait three days for the oxygen absorbers to do their work. It will look like the food is getting vacuum packed. You want to wait on snapping the lid down so you can check and make sure this is happening for two reasons, A) you want the oxygen absorbers to be working and B) you want your bag seal to be good. You have to wait to make sure this is happening. then

11) Snap on your lid. A big rubber mallet will come in handy, otherwise I find standing on the bucket works fine too. Using the palm of your hand will hurt after a while.

Oh, and this is not just for grains. You can store ammo, metal parts, candles, whatever you want this way. Moisture and air are your biggest enemies in long term storage (food and other stuff) and this is a pretty good way to store stuff.

Some myths:

- Basil, Bay Leaves and such do nothing to discourage bugs in your sealed up grains. Don't waste them by putting them in your food.

- Purging air is useful and easy, oxygen absorbers are even better.

- Oxygen absorbers absorb atmospheric oxygen. Dessecants absorb moisture. Know the difference. Neither is bad to have contact dry foods. Neither is poisonous, just not good for you. You can use them together.

- You CAN use a household iron to seal your Mylar bags. Preferably one with a teflon sole. Check your seals though. A sealer is a great investment but don't let the fact you don't have one stop you from putting away some food.

- You can use a bucket without a bag. A bag costs $0.82. It's cheap insurance. Get them. I have made good bread from grain that was 20 years in a bucket that was air purged with dry ice. It was fine. But $0.82? Get one. It's better to use a bag with no bucket than a bucket without a bag. Using both is better though.

- Temperature matters. Store your food in a stable lower temperature location. With the bucket and liner moisture isn't so important, constant temperature is important.

SUPPLIES and SUPPLIERS
- I use and like www.SorbentSystems.com for mylar bags, sealers, oxygen absorbers and dissacant.
- Doc66 recomends www.usaemergencysupply.com.

- www.airgas.com is a national gas and welding supply company. They have bottled gases, regulators and dry ice.

- A 20"x30" or better sized bag will line a 5 or six gallon bucket.

Edited: Added some pictures, more to come later.
Last edited by Schizm on Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:46 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:41 pm

There are some foods that out gas, they put out gas as they age. Those types of food should NOT be stored like this. Anything that is freshly roasted, toasted or cooked comes in that category. Malt grains and roasted coffee are the only two I can think of off the top of my head. The gas released will build up pressure and your bag/bucket can literally explode. That's cool but counter productive to your storage goals. Most fresh coffee comes with a release valve in the bag or is packed not so fresh so it has a chance to out gas safely.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Apollo-11 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:06 pm

Where are you getting your bags for $0.82? That's a heck of a deal.

Good post.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:12 pm

There are a number of decent suppliers of bags and absorbers and stuff, but my favorite is SorbentSystems.com. Their online order form is awkward but their service is top notch. They are the most reliable and the least expensive. Go figure.

( Their little bag sealers are top shelf too. )
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Squirrley » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:37 pm

Where do you get CO2/nitrogen gas stuff? Can you rent that? How exactly would one do it with dry ice?

I'd be very interested in starting doing this, but have 0 equipment and minimal funds.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:49 pm

You can get tanks and regulators for CO2 and nitrogen at any welding supply store. Generally they will rent with a deposit or sell to anyone. Although I wouldn't recommend you go buy this stuff just for food packing (expensive) but if you have it on hand for some other reason, purging is good to do. Oxygen absorbers all by themselves do a fine job too.

To purge with dry ice, take your bag and open it in your bucket, fill with food/grain/noodles, then set a fist sized chunk of dry ice on top of that. Wait for it to entirely sublimate (melt), then seal up as per the instructions. Make sure it's all gone before you seal or you'll create pressure in the bag/bucket and could pop a seal.

But really, just the oxygen absorber with dry food and you'll be good for years and years.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby MrMendigo » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:01 pm

Schizm wrote:You can get tanks and regulators for CO2 and nitrogen at any welding supply store. Generally they will rent with a deposit or sell to anyone. Although I wouldn't recommend you go buy this stuff just for food packing (expensive) but if you have it on hand for some other reason, purging is good to do. Oxygen absorbers all by themselves do a fine job too.

To purge with dry ice, take your bag and open it in your bucket, fill with food/grain/noodles, then set a fist sized chunk of dry ice on top of that. Wait for it to entirely sublimate (melt), then seal up as per the instructions. Make sure it's all gone before you seal or you'll create pressure in the bag/bucket and could pop a seal.

But really, just the oxygen absorber with dry food and you'll be good for years and years.


This info is what makes this site SO GREAT! Thanks and I'm starting asap.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Duckster » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:54 am

I've done the whole mylar bag thing, I didn't purge the bags, just used oxygen absorbers. I also had to make new bags. I ordered the large 5gallon-pail-bags, then realized that opening that much rice at one time would suck, so I cut the bags into quarters and heat sealed the edges, and voila, my own bags. My sealing system is an iron and a meterstick (yardstick) with a stiffener strip and two butterfly clips to keep things still.
I'm flying without buckets, big tupperware containers would be ideal, and I did just open up underneath my basement stairs to store more stuff:
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This cupboard used to close off under the stairs. I always had water problems under there, so I opened it up and sealed the concrete. Hopefully that helps the problem. You can also see my vacuum sealed mason jars of salt and suger (appropriately marked!)
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My original storage solution, still has a few bags. I've stored jasmine rice, basmati, lentils, and beans. Mostly rice though, there were some good sales last year. Each bag is marked with contents and date stored.
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Just curious, but does anyone know of a dealer in Canada that sells absorbers/mylar bags? Sorbent is good, but shipping the last time was as much as the product. It's not pleasant paying twice for one item.
As long as the body is warm and the bowels are loose, every other problem can be only minor and temporary.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:31 pm

Nice Work! I don't have any good sources in Canada, sorry.

The nice thing about using a good quality mylar bag is that you can pretty much ignore the container that it goes in, it can be anything, box, bucket, pail, or nothing at all. One option for big quantities is the bags that will line a 55 gallon drum! I use those for a beer club that I run, we buy grain by the ton and store it for up to a year that way. I like the 5 gallon bucket size and container since the lid works good for keeping bugs and dust out of the food while I eat it, and most stuff I can get through in time without it going bad. There are some things that I just use smaller quantities of and goes bad faster when opened like baking soda, baking powder, that are great candidates for the smaller packing. If I think I can't get though an entire bucket in a few months, I'll do the same amount but in two or three bags made from one bigger bag like you do. It's a little more work to pack but keeps the food fresher longer.

Great tips, Thanks!
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby doc66 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:37 pm

USA Emertgancy Supplies is a very good source for your supply needs.

I get my mylar bags and o2 absorbers from them as well as a couple other things for preps. I got home the other day and found a package from them in the mail, a heavy, soild package. I'm a little paranoid about things in the mail. I didn't remember ordering any thing from them recently, so it was with trepidatin that I opened the package. Inside I found two 100 count packages of O2 absorbers and a really nice note explaining that the old O2 absorbers they had been getting were not as advertised (they didn't absorbe the volume that was indicated) and to make it up to the customers, they were sending out replacements that were as advertised, free of charge.

Companies like this are few and far between. My hat is off to them.

Find them here and buy something off them!
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Squirrley » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:33 pm

Duckster - looks very nice!

As a completely off-topic comment, if you were getting water seeping through your foundation walls in the basement and sealed it from the inside, be aware that its just a temporary band-aid type thing, and that whoever build your foundation didn't do it correctly as it should have waterproofing on the outside. Eventually the water will degrade the concrete and it can fail. Hopefully not anytime soon :/
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Duckster » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:52 pm

Actually, the water under there was for a number of reasons, one of them my fault... :roll: Our furnace has no water pump on it, and we were tired of tripping over the hard line we had running across the laundry room to the drain. So, we put a bus bin under the drip, thinking there was no chance we'd go a whole day without one of us going into the laundry room. Of course, that day happened, the bin overflowed, and crept along the floor. The water seeped under the paint in areas that looked like had already been weakened by previous overflows from the last owner (we've only been here 1.5 years).

Under the paint, mould grew, and etched the concrete. There are now dips where the concrete had been eaten away. I used to store my cases of water under there, so under those was disgusting. I opened the whole thing up, scrubbed away the mould, scraped up the weakened concrete, and gave everything a coat of concrete sealer. Tinted purple, of course. I figured I could build some simple shelves under there, and store some of my preps.

Water came from outside when we first moved in because the previous owner hadn't cleaned the gutters, and we had a torrential downpour the third night after we moved in. A crapload of water was dumped right next to the foundation, and about a week later, we were stripping up the carpet and cutting out drywall that had soaked up all that water. It's under control now, though, that sealer has been on for about 3 months and the mouldy smell that has been with us for over a year is gone. Even temporary, we only plan to be here another 3-4 years. That was way too long to explain a painted floor.
As long as the body is warm and the bowels are loose, every other problem can be only minor and temporary.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Apollo-11 » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:03 am

No worries there... try doing that with an 80 year old house that wasn't done right to begin with, and has been cobbled together, added on to, and generally hodgepodged for the last 75 years. I'm getting there, but it takes a lot of time!

If you have concrete floors, wet or dry, I always use 2x4 sleepers (or a homemade shelf/pallet) underneath anything that is cardboard (boxes) or plastic (buckets). Although they are dry to the touch, you get condensed moisture if you put boxes or buckets directly on the floor or against the walls. The sleepers give you a little room for air to circulate, and keep everything dry.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:01 pm

Hey Duckster, what are you fermenting in that 5 gallon carboy?
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Duckster » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:17 pm

My uncle gave us all the paraphernalia for making our own wine as a wedding present, we're currently in the clarifying step of a 28 day white wine batch. A Liebfraumilch to be exact, whatever that is. All I know is that it smells good. We bottle this coming Tuesday.

If you have concrete floors, wet or dry, I always use 2x4 sleepers (or a homemade shelf/pallet) underneath anything that is cardboard (boxes) or plastic (buckets). Although they are dry to the touch, you get condensed moisture if you put boxes or buckets directly on the floor or against the walls. The sleepers give you a little room for air to circulate, and keep everything dry.


When we took up the carpet and painted the floor, I picked up a load of 1x2's to keep everything like that off of the floor. Definitely something to keep in mind with a concrete floor in the basement.
As long as the body is warm and the bowels are loose, every other problem can be only minor and temporary.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:25 pm

Nice! That's the wine from Castle Wolfenstien! Yummy.....
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby hatterofmaddness » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:03 pm

Awesome thread, been looking for detailed info like this for awhile. What really helps is the suggested web sites. I checked out the USAEemergencySupply.com and liked what I saw, so ordered up some Mylar bags and O2 absorbers. I got 200 lbs of rice ready for some long term storage.

Had a question about peoples thoughts about the container / lid. I have been shopping around and the best deal I found was for 5 gallon buckets, grade 2, from Home Depot. Only about $2.50~ bucket and $1.25~ for lid. While they are bright orange and say Home Depot on them, still thinking about using them, with the Mylar of course. My only concern is the lid might not seal air tight, there is no "sealer" material where the bucket and lid seat. Thoughts / Comments?
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Apollo-11 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:31 pm

No worries. The bucket is only there to provide mechanical protection for the mylar bag. It keeps out the critters... rats, mice, and bugs. And it also keeps you from poking holes in the mylar, and allows you to stack the stuff up.

The mylar bag is the critical component. It seals the food in and the bad stuff out - water, oxygen, bugs, light, etc.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:25 pm

I agree with Apollo's assessment of the less expensive bucketage, with one small caveat. If, after you open the mylar bag, are you going to be moving the grain to another container(s) for eating? If you are going to use the bucket as the container you eat from I would suggest getting a better lid for that bucket. Some people highly recommend the Gamma Seal lid, but I have no first hand experience with them. I use painters buckets with the neoprene seal in the lid. Yes, more expensive, but if you just had a few of them in the mix you could transfer from the cheap buckets to the expensive bucket when you open the bag and start eating the contents. It can take a while to get through 30 pounds of some ingredients in a small family.

But then if you have different kitchen containers, all this is moot and you should save a few bucks on the bucket and ignore me.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby KentuckyRifleman » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:37 pm

Wow Schizm! This is a great thread - I had been thinking about this the other day . . . ask and you shall receive.

Does anyone know how much rice/beans/flour/sugar the average person consumes in a day? I am trying to build up to four weeks of dry goods worth of food. I have about two to three weeks (I think) of canned goods, stuff from costco, etc. I am just wondering how long a 50# bag of rice could be expected to last.

If there is another thread that is really top-notch please post, if I find one, I'll edit and post directions.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38738
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38784&p=800166&hilit=rice+per+person#p800166

These look pretty good.

I really just wanted to say thanks for the great OP. :D
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby dkhoward » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:20 pm

Can someone be a little more specific about the mylar bags, such as a product number, size, specifications (thickness, weight, dimensions, etc). The information above is great, but looking at the web sites, it is a bit confusing on which bags are being used
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:49 am

KentuckyRifleman wrote:Wow Schizm! This is a great thread - I had been thinking about this the other day . . . ask and you shall receive.

Does anyone know how much rice/beans/flour/sugar the average person consumes in a day? I am trying to build up to four weeks of dry goods worth of food. I have about two to three weeks (I think) of canned goods, stuff from costco, etc. I am just wondering how long a 50# bag of rice could be expected to last.

I really just wanted to say thanks for the great OP. :D


How much food you need is best calculated by how much food you actually eat. I took some time and inventoried everything I ate for a period of time to get a good baseline for planning numbers. But if you don't have that to start with, or eat out too much to get an accurate number, you could start with some of the food calculators, just remember that they are a really rough starting point. No one can know what you really eat except you. Try lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm for a rough starting point. Some software will have starting values, like Revlar software, www.revlar.com. They have a free version that has the starting numbers all hosed up so don't start with the sample software.

Not exactly the answer you were looking for but hopefully this gets you going in the right direction. And thanks for the comments on the thread.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Schizm » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:58 am

dkhoward wrote:Can someone be a little more specific about the mylar bags, such as a product number, size, specifications (thickness, weight, dimensions, etc). The information above is great, but looking at the web sites, it is a bit confusing on which bags are being used


It depends on what you are putting the bag in. If you want a bag that works as a liner for a standard 5 gallon bucket, you want product 26MFS36 from SorbentSystems. This bag is a little tall for a standard 5 gallon bucket but that allows you to reuse it a few times. And it works fine in a 6 gallon bucket (superpail) with a little height still left over. If you want smaller bags, you can make them from the larger bags by cutting them down and using a sealer or iron to edge the bags, which is what I do for stuff that I'll never use 5 gallons of at a time. I just put away some popcorn in bags that I made to fit the amount that I can fit in the kitchen container that I use for popcorn, about 3 quarts. I got three bags out of a single 26MFS36 bag.

If you are doing a different size, call or email Sorbent, the folks there are extremely helpful and will gladly answer any question you have, no matter how weird. Their ordering form is a little awkward too but if you have problems, just call em and they'll get you taken care of.
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Re: Bucket Storage How To

Postby Apollo-11 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:22 am

Another way to find out how long your stored food will last is to figure the calories in the food.

Cooked white rice is 169 calories per cup, for example.

You calculate how many calories worth of food you have. You calculate how many calories you need per day. Divide A by B. This gives you the total number of days.

So if you had 50 pounds of white rice, that is approx 22,000 calories. You need, say between 2,000 and 3,000 calories a day. So that bucket would be good for somewhere between 7.33 and 11 days if you didn't eat anything else. Now you'd probably go crazy eating nothing but white rice (not to mention having vitamin deficiencies), so take that with a grain of salt. That's a minimum of 1.5 pounds of rice per meal on the low end of the scale to get the calories you need.

So you've got to know the calorie count of the food you have, and do a little math. Then you have to figure out if the answers make sense.
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