Drug home oddball diesel

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Drug home oddball diesel

Post by maxxb » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:25 pm

Well the other week I drug home kind of an oddball diesel rig. It is a 1980 Olds Cutlass with a 350 GM (Olds) Diesel motor. I found out it is the later DX block because the original D block was replaced by GM when the original owner had the car. I was originally thinking about dropping in a 403 I have sitting in my shop though some have suggested working over the old DX motor and maybe making it into a bit of a torque monster. I got thinking about how the diesel could be a good idea around and would increase fuel options in a PAW situation. It has been suggested to add a turbo or two to the diesel engine do a complete rebuild and have fun with an oddly unique rig. I do actually have a second more beat up one of these cars laying around so I have thought about building one street car and one PAW rig just for shits and giggles.

Anyone here have any experience with these DX diesel motors? I know that they have a fairly bad rep in some circles while others state they can be built into a rock solid reliable little motor. I do know that the block is also used in a gas conversion that allows for basically a bomb proof bottom end, small block size, super heavy duty block, and big block sized mains.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by Braxton » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:32 pm

Yea..............


Good luck with that.

Do yourself a favor and scrap that Diesel. My old man had one.

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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by velojym » Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:50 pm

IIRC, those old 350 diesels were real dogs, modified gas engines and just weren't up to the abuse diesel operation tended to heap.
I think, if you want a torque monster, you'd be better off picking up a mill that was engineered as a diesel and go from there.
6.2s are going really cheap right now, and can be worked into decent mills... especially since this isn't a truck anyway, a turbo-ized 6.2 would
really be something else in this car. Of course, the newer you go the better ...though, ya might want to keep a close eye on the 6.5 engines
from when they went electronic. I think there were some glitches there.
I think I'd go for that first option, myself, as the running gear in the car may not be up to the power and torque of a later model engine. Otherwise,
I suppose you could source some truck components to slap underneath, raise it a couple inches, bolt on some armor, paint it flat black... etc. etc.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by KentsOkay » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:38 pm

I don't know crap about diesel engines other than I want one.

I wanna see how this pans out :D
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by rklessdriver » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:50 pm

I know Olds drag racers can use the 350 Diesel block to build an awesome gas racing engine..... However as a diesel engine they flat suck. "Heavy Duty" and "Bomb Proof" when looked at from the context of a converted gas engine is worlds apart from "Diesel Heavy Duty".

Those engines were known for no power, broken head bolts, blown head gaskets, cooling problems and if pushed or ran hard you could actually blow the crankshaft right out of the bottom of them because the main cap bolts would strip out of the block (not enought thread engagement).

Even for a Diesel they have insanely high compression ratio of 22.1..... adding a turbo would be very short lived.

You have the step child of the Olds gas engine world with the 403, but it's way better than the 350 Diesel.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by maxxb » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:18 pm

Yeah I have mostly read about how lousy of a diesel they really are. Though it seems most of the problems originated with the original D blocks and the DX were quite a bit better though still dogs as an NA diesel. Kinda one of the reasons I thought about adding a turbo to the mix. I have actually found a few that people have done such a conversion on successfully and they are working out quite well.

I am kind of thinking this car (as it has the nicer of the bodies) will be built into a regular street car using the 403 and if I can find the title for the other body that might get a diesel of some variety to make something odd. I do have a regular Olds 350 in the shop as well and have a line on the only factory fuel injection manifold produced for a small block Olds for use in some project (that will need to be updated from an old analog system).

I have also considered just switching the diesel block over to gas building a high comp gas beast but that would be a completely different kind of build all together.

The idea of adding in some truck bits brings to mind James Garners old Banshee off road race car based on an early 70's Cutlass. Here is that car
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EDIT: obviously this is a completely tube framed car and is only being shown as an example of stance and craziness.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by velojym » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:54 pm

That rocks. Back when I was a kid, I wanted to Baja-ize my '78 Ford Fairmont Futura, but use it mostly for bombing down dirt roads.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by Turtlewolf » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:46 pm

With a little research and a lot of money or skill the Olds 350 diesel engine can be built into about a 440 CI small block gas engine, I've seen two that had been changed over. The blocks are much heavier than the standard 350 and handle the excess over bore pretty well. As a diesel they are crap, kind of like the Pontiac 301 Turbo-but the 301 can not be saved at all from its poor design.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by Dooms » Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:12 pm

Those GM gas-conversion diesels were what pretty much single-handedly ruined our taste for diesel cars in North America.

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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by maxxb » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:50 pm

Yeah I am kinda digging the idea of bajaizing one of these rigs for giggles. If I can find that title I just might do it for fun. We have tons of dirt roads and the like out here to run it on.

I heard that this engine is what turned many people off diesel here in the states. It may end up getting converted to a stroked gas motor or a turbo gas motor. Funny you mentioned the 301 I have one of those boat anchors laying around as well.

Hmm my fiances step dad is taking some suspension bucket seats out of his jeep to replace them with some newer ones...
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by moosiah » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:08 am

Interesting, 'cause I was just reading about a 80's oldsmobile that a guy just bought , super clean and a diesel ( well, this was on a diesel volks wagen site).. yes the early ones weren't to good . later ones were better and most stuff can be fixed.. my landlord had a Caddy w a 5.7 and he drove it all over .
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by BattleVersion » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:44 am

Those old Diesel motors were not know for power, but They can get around 25MPG (some claim 40mpg).
They can be made reliable, if you don't try to get any power (>120bhp) from them.
Their not bad engines, just misunderstood.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by Electricity » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:19 am

I'd love to see some pictures of what you're working with right now, before any restorations and such.
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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by maxxb » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:17 am

Here are some pics of the car the diesel engine and the 403 (sitting in the back of my fiances Tacoma).

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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by DZDXmechanic » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:37 am

Did you ever do anything with your DX diesel, yea I know it's been 8 years since your post.

I was a GM mechanic of the OLDS engine for most of the time they where out running around, and got very proficient at it, with the proper GM training in NEW ORLEANS LA. I actually got a shoulder condition from torquing so many head bolts, first pass was 100 ft pounds the second pass was 130 ft pounds, it was very awkward when the engine was in the vehicle, it was easier to torque head bots on Caterpillar 3208 while sitting on a truck chassis or frame.

Most people were and still are MIS-informed and UNeducated about the OLDSMOBILE DIESEL engine project.
While the block and the heads where very similar. BUT they where not identical. The engine was rushed out without many trials. and research.
One of their main failures was not adding an extra eight to bolts to the original ten bolt head pattern.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a ... e-diesels/
"""πšƒπš˜ πš‹πšŽπšπš’πš— πš πš’πšπš‘, π™Ύπš•πšπšœπš–πš˜πš‹πš’πš•πšŽ πš™πš˜πš πšŽπš›πšπš›πšŠπš’πš— πšŽπš—πšπš’πš—πšŽπšŽπš›πšœ πš‹πšŠπšœπšŽπš πšπš‘πšŽ πšπšŽπšœπš’πšπš— πš˜πš— πšπš‘πšŽ πšπš’πšŸπš’πšœπš’πš˜πš—'𝚜 πš πšŽπš•πš•-πšπš›πš˜πš 𝟹𝟻𝟢-πšŒπšžπš‹πš’πšŒ-πš’πš—πšŒπš‘ πš…πŸΎ. π™³πš˜πš—'𝚝 πš‹πšŽπš•πš’πšŽπšŸπšŽ πšπš‘πšŽ πš•πšŽπšπšŽπš—πš πšπš‘πšŠπš πšπš‘πšŽπš’ πšœπš’πš–πš™πš•πš’ πšœπš•πšŠπš™πš™πšŽπš πš—πšŽπš  πš‘πšŽπšŠπšπšœ πš˜πš— πšπš‘πšŽ πšœπšπšŠπš—πšπšŠπš›πš πš‹πš•πš˜πšŒπš”. πšƒπš‘πšŽ πš—πšŽπš  πš‹πš•πš˜πšŒπš” 𝚠𝚊𝚜 πš›πšŽπš’πš—πšπš˜πš›πšŒπšŽπš πšŠπš—πš 𝚠𝚊𝚜 πš‹πšžπš’πš•πš 𝚘𝚏 𝚊 πšœπšπšžπš›πšπš’πšŽπš› 𝚌𝚊𝚜𝚝-πš’πš›πš˜πš— πšŠπš•πš•πš˜πš’, πš‹πšžπš πš‹πš•πš˜πšŒπš”πšœ πš πšŽπš›πšŽπš—'𝚝 πš›πšŽπšŠπš•πš•πš’ πšπš‘πšŽ πš™πš›πš˜πš‹πš•πšŽπš–.

π™Όπš˜πšœπš 𝚘𝚏 πšπš‘πšŽ πšπš›πš˜πšžπš‹πš•πšŽ πšŒπšŠπš–πšŽ πšπš›πš˜πš– πšπš‘πšŽ πš‘πšŽπšŠπšπšœ πšŠπš—πš πšπš‘πšŽ πšπšžπšŽπš• πšœπš’πšœπšπšŽπš–. π™³πš’πšŽπšœπšŽπš• πšŽπš—πšπš’πš—πšŽπšœ πš˜πš™πšŽπš›πšŠπšπšŽ πšžπšœπš’πš—πš 𝚊 πšŒπš˜πš–πš™πš›πšŽπšœπšœπš’πš˜πš—-πš’πšπš—πš’πšπš’πš˜πš— πšœπšŒπš‘πšŽπš–πšŽ. πšƒπš‘πšŽ πš’πšπšŽπšŠπš• 𝚐𝚊𝚜 πš•πšŠπš πšœ πšπšŽπš•πš• 𝚞𝚜 πšπš‘πšŠπš 𝚊𝚜 𝚊 πšŸπš˜πš•πšžπš–πšŽ 𝚘𝚏 𝚐𝚊𝚜 πš’πšœ πšŒπš˜πš–πš™πš›πšŽπšœπšœπšŽπš, πš’πšπšœ πšπšŽπš–πš™πšŽπš›πšŠπšπšžπš›πšŽ 𝚐𝚘𝚎𝚜 πšžπš™, πšŠπš—πš, πš’πš— πšπš‘πšŽ 𝚌𝚊𝚜𝚎 𝚘𝚏 𝚊 πšπš’πšŽπšœπšŽπš• πšŽπš—πšπš’πš—πšŽ, πš’πš'𝚜 πšŒπš˜πš–πš™πš›πšŽπšœπšœπšŽπš πšžπš—πšπš’πš• πšπš‘πšŽ πšπš’πšŽπšœπšŽπš• πšπšžπšŽπš• πš’πš— πšπš‘πšŽ πšŒπš˜πš–πš‹πšžπšœπšπš’πš˜πš— πšŒπš‘πšŠπš–πš‹πšŽπš› πš’πšπš—πš’πšπšŽπšœ. πšƒπš‘πš’πšœ πš•πšŽπšŠπšπšœ 𝚝𝚘 πš–πšžπšŒπš‘ πš‘πš’πšπš‘πšŽπš› πšŒπš˜πš–πš™πš›πšŽπšœπšœπš’πš˜πš— πš›πšŠπšπš’πš˜πšœ πšŠπš—πš πšŒπš˜πš–πš‹πšžπšœπšπš’πš˜πš— πšŒπš‘πšŠπš–πš‹πšŽπš› πš™πš›πšŽπšœπšœπšžπš›πšŽπšœ πšπš‘πšŠπš— πšŠπš›πšŽ πš™πš›πšŽπšœπšŽπš—πš πš’πš— 𝚊 πšπšŠπšœπš˜πš•πš’πš—πšŽ πšŽπš—πšπš’πš—πšŽ. πšƒπš’πš™πš’πšŒπšŠπš•πš•πš’, πšπš’πšŽπšœπšŽπš• πšŽπš—πšπš’πš—πšŽπšœ πš‘πšŠπšŸπšŽ πš–πš˜πš›πšŽ πšŠπš—πš πšœπšπš›πš˜πš—πšπšŽπš› πš‘πšŽπšŠπš πš‹πš˜πš•πšπšœ 𝚝𝚘 πšŒπš˜πš–πš™πšŽπš—πšœπšŠπšπšŽ πšπš˜πš› πšπš‘πšŽ πšπš’πšŽπšœπšŽπš•'𝚜 πš‘πš’πšπš‘πšŽπš› πšŒπš’πš•πš’πš—πšπšŽπš› πš™πš›πšŽπšœπšœπšžπš›πšŽ.

πšƒπš‘πšŽ π™Ύπš•πšπšœπš–πš˜πš‹πš’πš•πšŽ πšπš’πšŽπšœπšŽπš•, πš‘πš˜πš πšŽπšŸπšŽπš›, πš–πšŠπš’πš—πšπšŠπš’πš—πšŽπš πšπš‘πšŽ πšœπšŠπš–πšŽ 𝟷𝟢-πš‹πš˜πš•πš πš™πšŠπšπšπšŽπš›πš— πšŠπš—πš πš‘πšŽπšŠπš πš‹πš˜πš•πšπšœ 𝚊𝚜 πšπšŠπšœπš˜πš•πš’πš—πšŽ πšŽπš—πšπš’πš—πšŽπšœ, 𝚜𝚘 πšπš‘πšŠπš πšŒπš˜πš–πš–πš˜πš— πš™πš›πš˜πšπšžπšŒπšπš’πš˜πš— πšπš˜πš˜πš•πš’πš—πš πšŒπš˜πšžπš•πš πš‹πšŽ 𝚞𝚜𝚎𝚍 πšπš˜πš› πš‹πš˜πšπš‘ πšπš‘πšŽ πšπšŠπšœπš˜πš•πš’πš—πšŽ πšŠπš—πš πšπš’πšŽπšœπšŽπš• πšŽπš—πšπš’πš—πšŽπšœ""""
https://fme-cat.com/livedocs/662(2-1).pdf
Fel-Pro No. 8983 PT. BLACK Printoseal, standard thickness.
Use when pistons project above deck not more than .025” or when the cylinder block has never been resurfaced (except when replacing a GREY colored Printoseal gasket).
Fel-Pro No. 8716 PT-1, GOLD Printoseal , nominal .010” thicker. Use when pistons project .026” to a maximum of .032” above deck or in conjuction when the cylinder block has also been resurfaced (or when replacing a GREY colored Printoseal gasket). Both of these gaskets are manufactured with a 4.170”bore size and will cover cylinder bore sizes from standard 4.057”up to an overbore of 4.097”.

The additional bore size of the gasket also accommodates minimum uniform chamfer.NOTE: Resurfacing of the cylinder head does not determine the choice of head gaskets for this engine. Select the correct gasket according to the piston projection measurement above the deck of the block.The thickness of the head gasket in relation to piston projection will determine the final critical compression ratio.CAUTION: To obtain optimum sealing conditions on the cylinder head gasket surface, the fuel injection pre-cup inserts should be flush with the casting surface. Under no circumstances do we recommended a variation of more than .002” above or below the casting surface.

HEAD BOLTS FOR GM DIESEL ENGINE 1978-80A new type head bolts is available for the 5.7l engines

https://studylib.net/doc/8256762/torque-tablestm page 20
+9Image

Tore down many 350 D DX models and Standadyne fuel injection pumps and cleaned many injectors and put them back successfully, sometimes heads had acceptable minor cracks. The heads with severe cracks where chucked from so much heat exposure to overheating due to owner neglect when they ignored the temp light due to overheating from lack of coolant.

The worst I ever experienced was an engine that the injectors springs turned blue the owner basically grove it until it nearly seized, he did not succeed. The engine quit running when the fuel would no longer be atomized by the injectors at 1200 PSI. When I checked the injector pop off pressure many could hardly manage 200 PSI somewhere well below that 160 to 180. I did not tear the engine down for inspection from my recollection, it would have been a futile endeavor. some of the plastic and rubber parts visible to the naked eye had started to melt and changed their appearance the vehicle was bought off by GM the ower probably bought labor vehicle somewhere else I believe he was an out towner that happened back in 1983.

I still remember the dark blue Cutlass sedan, in fact, I took out the extra 20-gallon aluminum diesel tank bolted in the trunk out of it and took it home before they hauled out for scrap. Never even put the injectors and tried to start it, The GM factory representative and my manager gave it last RIP rites before deciding to take the heads out if, It sat at out GM dealership for months. I Always wondered what it looked on the inside.

Those engines where built tough They later found out some of the head bolts where faulty material.

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Re: Drug home oddball diesel

Post by Mrselfdestruct » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:51 pm

rklessdriver wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:50 pm
I know Olds drag racers can use the 350 Diesel block to build an awesome gas racing engine..... However as a diesel engine they flat suck. "Heavy Duty" and "Bomb Proof" when looked at from the context of a converted gas engine is worlds apart from "Diesel Heavy Duty".

Those engines were known for no power, broken head bolts, blown head gaskets, cooling problems and if pushed or ran hard you could actually blow the crankshaft right out of the bottom of them because the main cap bolts would strip out of the block (not enought thread engagement).

Even for a Diesel they have insanely high compression ratio of 22.1..... adding a turbo would be very short lived.

You have the step child of the Olds gas engine world with the 403, but it's way better than the 350 Diesel.
Will
What this guy said. Was early 90s i read about what could be done if they were turned back into gassers...do that.
"In the absence of orders, go find something, and kill it." -Rommel

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