Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bearing

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Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bearing

Post by PistolPete » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:56 pm

So, I've got a Explorer Sport Trac (the half suv / half truck thingy) with 100k mile or so. When I did the front brakes last month I noticed my front wheel was a little shaky. No bit deal, time for wheel bearings.

So the dealer wanted 3 bills each, because the wheel bearing and hub is one assembly. Even aftermarket they were $150. Waaaay more than the last time I put in wheel bearings, but eh, shit costs more now.

So the job goes according to plan, old bolts that take some umph to get out, no big deal. I decided to put in new shocks while I'm in there, and that was smooth as silk. But then my problem. I cannot for the life of me get the freakin old bearing out. I hit 'em with PB Blaster and started pounding with a slide hammer. After 5 minutes of that I hit 'em with a torch and hammered some more. I've made no progress and bruised both my hands. :x

Any thoughts? I know a robot put the shit in but I should be able to get it out, right? I know I've got 7 years and 100k miles of rust built up, but damn the old assembly isn't budging at all.
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by WhoShotJR » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:11 pm

Pretty much every auto parts store carries some variation of a freeze and release type lubricant. You point the little red straw at whatever part needs to slightly shrink, and blast for a good 20-30 seconds. At this point in my life I've run into thousands of plumbing, auto, mechanical situations like this and the freeze/lubrication is by far the best solution I've found. Works much better than heating.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by rvrrnnr » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:41 pm

Jeep uses a one piece bearing/hub assembly. If your SportTrac's is designed similiar you could try the following-if the hub/bearing unit is held on by bolts from the rear (three on the Jeeps), you can go buy slighty longer bolts of the same size and insert them into the holes. They will force the unit loose.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by PistolPete » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:10 pm

Thanks for the tips!
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by WhoShotJR » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:25 pm

PistolPete wrote:Thanks for the tips!

Let us know how it turns out, and how you fixed it. I consider this to be a good learning thread.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by avenger » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:02 am

PP-

I actually think you have to replace that whole unit- the bearings probably won't come out without damaging the machined in (read that as not replaceable) races so bad that you'll never get em' right again. The hub assy is bolted on and then pressed over the splines on the end of the CV shaft, so if you've got the end of the CV shaft out the job's 99% done- pull the 3 bolts and pull the thing out.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by Silent Kube » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:10 am

I had a bearing completely come apart on me once. I had to replace the whole spindle because the inner ring of the bearing got so hot it actually welded itself to the spindle.
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by meatshieldChris » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:34 pm

yup, more and more vehicles are replacing the entire hub/bearing/bearing carrier and sometimes the knuckle as an entire, sealed unit. If you've got the new pieces in your hands though, you'll see how it was intended to come apart and you probably just need to beat it harder. I like air hammers for getting the bearing carrier off of older Hondas. The Factory Service Manual was the best $80 I ever spent on any of my vehicles, takes this kind of guesswork out of it.

Usually it goes like this for me:

-Look in the manual to see how it was intended to come apart
-attempt to remove it that way
-give up, remove the entire knuckle from the car, put it on the bench where you can get a good swing, use lots of heat and hammering, and possibly grinders, and occasionally destructive removal of portions of it
-install the new part according to the manual (which is always the easy part)

I had one pop loose by heating the hell out of the knuckle then spraying wd-40 on the carrier to shrink it, you could hear the rust crackling loose. then some light hammering took it out.

I'm also starting to use my new hydraulic press for this kind of thing. I set it up on the press, put a few tons of force on it, then sharply tap around the area to vibrate it.

So in short: do everything. eventually it'll come out, if it's the style I've seen on some import cars that I'm thinking of. I suspect avenger is right though, replace the entire knuckle as an assembly might be the only way. That's how my upper ball joint was, had to replace the whole upper control arm. that pissed me off.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by DarkAxel » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:50 pm

PP,

If the bearing assembly is sealed, then you have to replace the whole thing. If not, try a gear/steering wheel/ or Harmonic balancer puller. If you don't have one, then get one. They are worth it.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by meatshieldChris » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:53 pm

actually I just looked at rockauto to see what we're dealing with: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1118152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it's removed and replaced as an assembly. remove 3 bolts, beat the ever living piss out of it till it comes out. easiest to remove the upper/lower balljoints, any abs sensors wires, brake, and tie rod ends so you can remove the whole knuckle and put the thing on your bench to work on (or at least get it out in the open on blocks of wood on the ground, hub side down cv joint side up).

beat it out from the back side with a big club hammer. I have doubts on the gear puller, these things need lots of force when they're stuck. they also need something in the center to push on, which when you remove the cv stub axle, there won't be. bolting up a rear axle puller for your slide hammer might work, but I'd just remove the whole knucke and beat on the bearing's rear surfaces to get it out.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by AgentBlack » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:03 pm

From my 2002-2006 explorer manual:

front hub and bearing assy replacement;
1. loosen the driveaxle/hub nut.
2. loosen the lug nuts, raise and support the vehicle, remove the wheel.
3. remove the brake caliper and disc. remove the wheel speed sensor from the knuckle.
4. remove the three bolts on the back side of the knuckle.
5. if working on a 4wd model remove the axle/hub nut and push the driveaxle through the hub splines as the hub/bearing assy is removed. If stuck, you'll have to push it out with a three jaw puller. be careful not to overextend the inner cv joint. once the hub is removed support the outer end of the axle shaft.
6. installation is reverse of removal.

if you need torque specs I need to know what year your truck is.
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by meatshieldChris » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:13 pm

AgentBlack wrote:From my 2002-2006 explorer manual:

front hub and bearing assy replacement;
1. loosen the driveaxle/hub nut.
2. loosen the lug nuts, raise and support the vehicle, remove the wheel.
3. remove the brake caliper and disc. remove the wheel speed sensor from the knuckle.
4. remove the three bolts on the back side of the knuckle.
5. if working on a 4wd model remove the axle/hub nut and push the driveaxle through the hub splines as the hub/bearing assy is removed. If stuck, you'll have to push it out with a three jaw puller. be careful not to overextend the inner cv joint. once the hub is removed support the outer end of the axle shaft.
6. installation is reverse of removal.

if you need torque specs I need to know what year your truck is.
it's as easy as that until the truck leaves the dealership new (f'n rust belt) ;)

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by AgentBlack » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:13 pm

meatshieldChris wrote:
AgentBlack wrote:From my 2002-2006 explorer manual:

front hub and bearing assy replacement;
1. loosen the driveaxle/hub nut.
2. loosen the lug nuts, raise and support the vehicle, remove the wheel.
3. remove the brake caliper and disc. remove the wheel speed sensor from the knuckle.
4. remove the three bolts on the back side of the knuckle.
5. if working on a 4wd model remove the axle/hub nut and push the driveaxle through the hub splines as the hub/bearing assy is removed. If stuck, you'll have to push it out with a three jaw puller. be careful not to overextend the inner cv joint. once the hub is removed support the outer end of the axle shaft.
6. installation is reverse of removal.

if you need torque specs I need to know what year your truck is.

it's as easy as that until the truck leaves the dealership new (f'n rust belt) ;)
Yeah that's why I have the puller they refer to in my tool box, and I'm not afraid to give it some "love" with the ballpeen.... :D
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by rvrrnnr » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:33 pm

AgentBlack wrote:From my 2002-2006 explorer manual:

front hub and bearing assy replacement;
1. loosen the driveaxle/hub nut.
2. loosen the lug nuts, raise and support the vehicle, remove the wheel.
3. remove the brake caliper and disc. remove the wheel speed sensor from the knuckle.
4. remove the three bolts on the back side of the knuckle.
5. if working on a 4wd model remove the axle/hub nut and push the driveaxle through the hub splines as the hub/bearing assy is removed. If stuck, you'll have to push it out with a three jaw puller. be careful not to overextend the inner cv joint. once the hub is removed support the outer end of the axle shaft.
6. installation is reverse of removal.
.
It sounds like the unit bearing/hub on the Explorers and SportTracs use an identical design to those on the Cherokees and Wranglers (also Comanches and GrandCherokees, and probably more Jeep models).
The longer bolt method, along with a few wacks from a mallet, really make it easier. I've done a lot of them, including ones that were covered with rust, and I've yet to have to use a puller of any type.

Please don't ever remove the entire knuckle for something like this. That's akin to pulling a motor to replace an alternator or water pump, etc.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by PistolPete » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:01 pm

Yes, it is a sealed assembly with the bearing, carrier and attached hub. It's a reasonable idea from the manufacturing and durability standpoint I guess. I got the drivers side off last night, I let it soak in PB Blaster for 20 hours and it came off in 20 whacks or so. Once it broke free everything else was cake. Then I went to dinner and drank beer. :D

I'm working on the passenger side this morning, got everything apart and am letting the lubricant do it's magic. After I finish lunch I'm going to go back out and pound it for a bit and then hit it again with the lube. The passenger side is the one that worn and has some real wiggle to it, not sure if that'll make it easier or harder. Time will tell! If it doesn't pop right away I'm going to try the longer bolt method or maybe the cold spray trick. Both of those are great ideas. I'd consider pulling the whole knuckle, except for the fact that I own neither a press nor a workbench. I have a small vise mounted on the old wire spool I use as my reloading bench in the basement, but it's full of my reloading crap. I don't think that spool would hold up well to pounding.

It is funny, I have a desk job and I can tell it. After two nights of pounding on crap my hands are sore and bruised in spots. Sounds like I need to toughen myself up before the apocalypse. :lol:

AgentBlack, looks like we've got the same book. The part that's taken multiple hours doesn't even warrant a full sentence in the repair manual. Jerks.

Thanks for the help folks!
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by congochris » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:29 pm

WhoShotJR wrote:Pretty much every auto parts store carries some variation of a freeze and release type lubricant. You point the little red straw at whatever part needs to slightly shrink, and blast for a good 20-30 seconds. At this point in my life I've run into thousands of plumbing, auto, mechanical situations like this and the freeze/lubrication is by far the best solution I've found. Works much better than heating.
Sounds like a standard can of air. Just hold it upside down and out sprays liquid CO2, which freezes. That stuff might be more effective, but if you have a can of air around it might be worth a quick try.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by MI-1Honkey » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:06 pm

sorry im late,

But the way to deal with these is to remove the cv axle center nut, and the three bolts that hold the bearing in the steering knuckle. Hose it with penetrator from the inside of the knuckle. Ive not had to use heat on any of these yet. Then use a deadblow hammer to free the cv axle, get a BIG hammer and a punch. Hit the ears of the bearing assembly, in an attempt to rotate it in the knuckle(sounds stupid, but it works, i do em all the time). When it moves a little work a small chisel in between the bearing and the knuckle, theres usually a cutout in the knuckle to work from. You'll have to work your way around the bearing to get it freed up.

a couple more thoughts...

If you pull the knuckle, replace the ball joint.

use grease to slide the new one in, and anti-seize on the bolts, if you plan on taking it apart again

also use grease on the CV splines when you slide the new bearing on.

a big screwdriver stuck into the rotor and wedged against the caliper mount will hold everything still while you torque the center nut to a bazillion Ft-Lbs

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by meatshieldChris » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:50 pm

PistolPete wrote:Yes, it is a sealed assembly with the bearing, carrier and attached hub. It's a reasonable idea from the manufacturing and durability standpoint I guess. I got the drivers side off last night, I let it soak in PB Blaster for 20 hours and it came off in 20 whacks or so. Once it broke free everything else was cake. Then I went to dinner and drank beer. :D

I'm working on the passenger side this morning, got everything apart and am letting the lubricant do it's magic. After I finish lunch I'm going to go back out and pound it for a bit and then hit it again with the lube. The passenger side is the one that worn and has some real wiggle to it, not sure if that'll make it easier or harder. Time will tell! If it doesn't pop right away I'm going to try the longer bolt method or maybe the cold spray trick. Both of those are great ideas. I'd consider pulling the whole knuckle, except for the fact that I own neither a press nor a workbench. I have a small vise mounted on the old wire spool I use as my reloading bench in the basement, but it's full of my reloading crap. I don't think that spool would hold up well to pounding.

It is funny, I have a desk job and I can tell it. After two nights of pounding on crap my hands are sore and bruised in spots. Sounds like I need to toughen myself up before the apocalypse. :lol:

AgentBlack, looks like we've got the same book. The part that's taken multiple hours doesn't even warrant a full sentence in the repair manual. Jerks.

Thanks for the help folks!
Don't need a workbench or a press. Just some blocks of wood and the ground. I'm a desk pilot too, the only way I can work on my truck as much as I have is by wearing mechanics gloves. If you get ones that fit you properly (I think the Mechanix brand has lots of granularity in the number of sizes) you can deal with small bolts and still handle them without dropping them into the depths of the motor. I do everything down to about 8mm before I pull the gloves off. The first time your wrench slips and you mash your knuckles into the car and it only hurts a little but doesn't bruise or break any skin, you'll be sold.

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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by AgentBlack » Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:07 pm

meatshieldChris wrote:
PistolPete wrote:Yes, it is a sealed assembly with the bearing, carrier and attached hub. It's a reasonable idea from the manufacturing and durability standpoint I guess. I got the drivers side off last night, I let it soak in PB Blaster for 20 hours and it came off in 20 whacks or so. Once it broke free everything else was cake. Then I went to dinner and drank beer. :D

I'm working on the passenger side this morning, got everything apart and am letting the lubricant do it's magic. After I finish lunch I'm going to go back out and pound it for a bit and then hit it again with the lube. The passenger side is the one that worn and has some real wiggle to it, not sure if that'll make it easier or harder. Time will tell! If it doesn't pop right away I'm going to try the longer bolt method or maybe the cold spray trick. Both of those are great ideas. I'd consider pulling the whole knuckle, except for the fact that I own neither a press nor a workbench. I have a small vise mounted on the old wire spool I use as my reloading bench in the basement, but it's full of my reloading crap. I don't think that spool would hold up well to pounding.

It is funny, I have a desk job and I can tell it. After two nights of pounding on crap my hands are sore and bruised in spots. Sounds like I need to toughen myself up before the apocalypse. :lol:

AgentBlack, looks like we've got the same book. The part that's taken multiple hours doesn't even warrant a full sentence in the repair manual. Jerks.

Thanks for the help folks!
Don't need a workbench or a press. Just some blocks of wood and the ground. I'm a desk pilot too, the only way I can work on my truck as much as I have is by wearing mechanics gloves. If you get ones that fit you properly (I think the Mechanix brand has lots of granularity in the number of sizes) you can deal with small bolts and still handle them without dropping them into the depths of the motor. I do everything down to about 8mm before I pull the gloves off. The first time your wrench slips and you mash your knuckles into the car and it only hurts a little but doesn't bruise or break any skin, you'll be sold.
Don't feel too bad I am a profesional wrench spinner and I wear gloves all the time. I like the cheap blue and black western safety ones from harbor freight, I wear out six or seven pair a year but there cheap so who cares (they fit nice and snug). also a tip for you kids at home, pulling wrenches is exactly opposite of everything you were ever taught about knives. meaning always (whenever possible) pull toward you instead of pushing away, this WILL reduce the risk of busted knuckles. also use the right wrench for the job, and the exact size, and only use an extension when absolutly needed. get some quality wobble extensions and throw those damn universal socket adapters in the trash.
and lastly, IF this is a truck you plan on keeping for awhile; as each of these PITA jobs comes up buy the special tools for that job and leave it in that truck. because each of these headaches should be a training exercise. remember how bad this sucked at home with plenty of time, then imagine doing it on the side of the road at night in the rain 300 miles from home.
everyone has plans and dreams of that perfect BOV. but the fact is if the SHTF tomorrow what ever is in the driveway is your BOV. so if you have your dream truck or just basic transpo, each vehicle should be a self-sufficent rolling safety zone.

Sorry for the rant, I know it had nothing to do with wheel bearings! I cleaned out my toolbox and had to go jump start my wife's POS at the corner store today so I'm on a vehicle readiness kick. I'm a technician...I don't call the damn auto club!!
once I did change the front wheel bearings in my 90' dakota at a rest stop near Amarillo, TX off I40. luckly I was moving back home from Phoenix, AZ and my whole roll away tool box was in the uhail trailer I was pulling so it was no big deal. except for everything I own strung out in the parking lot because of course my box was in the front of the trailer! :lol:
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by PistolPete » Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:50 pm

Thanks again for the help. I finally got the second bearing assembly out the hoosier way. The slide hammer I was using had an 8lb weight, after whacking the stupid bearing about 300 times, I decided I either needed bigger muscles or more weight. I'm not patient enough for the first option, so I grabbed a 25 lb weight from my exercise equipment and added that on to the slide hammer. A few whacks and it popped right out. I was kicking myself for not trying that earlier. I did manage to get awesome bruises on my palms in the shape of the hammer at least. :-)

The spinning of the carrier is a great idea. If I have to do this job again I'm going to give that a shot. But for now, my vehicle is all happy again. I can't complain, other than brakes, tires and maintenance I haven't had to put any money in this vehicle. She still runs as good as new at 100k miles too.

Now to catch up on forum stuff! Thanks again for the ideas folks!
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Re: Repair that is currently eluding me, replacing wheel bea

Post by Oneswunk » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:23 am

Late to the party and yes its a jeep, but link to write up I did....
http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... 45&t=66260" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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