bug out bicycle?

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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby andygates » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:04 pm

Jonas wrote:I have a roadbike and around here, I end up cutting across grass fields, very rarely go on some hardpack through the woods and use a lot of fine gravel trails. Slicks are a bad call for all of these. I don't have enough clearance to go any bigger than a 25c. I just want to be able to go on different, reasonable surfaces without washing out as much. I'm not trying to make a road bike into anything it really isn't. I want a little bit of an insurance policy for commuting.


Something with a herringbone tread and don't run it at max tyre pressure. Riding with a slightly softer tyre is a bit more grippy, and float over the saddle so the bike's free to dance lightly over the rough stuff.

I'd say cyclocross tyres (the Hutchinson Gold are beauties) but you don't have clearance for those either.

A road bike is, fundamentally, a Dalek: it likes flat hard surfaces and is a weak design if you're taking it elsewhere. Everything you do will be compromises that make it less road-bikey for the other 99% of your ride.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby velojym » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:38 pm

Crow, you really are looking for a touring bike. If it's a matter of budget, you can keep an eye out for a used Trek 520 or the like. I weigh about 330 right now,
and my Surly Long-Haul-Trucker hasn't had any problem supporting me, but I'm pretty easy on the equipment on everything other than weight... no hucking or curb
hopping in my current condition.
The Kona in my earlier pic also carries me fine, being a road-outfitted cyclocross bike, though for a more complete mount for your purposes, I'd probably swap the front crankset for a triple so I'd have that granny range available. The way its set up was fine even in the hilliest country, when I was fit... but now, it's still pretty good for flats and gentle rolling hill country.
As for wheels, you're looking for at least 32 spokes, and the biggest weakness in wheels for our needs is that machine-built wheels seem to have minor flaws in assembly... not noticeable for folks who don't put a lot of weight on 'em, but for us... yeah. A touring bike or cyclocross wheel should work fine, but I recommend that you get a real bike mechanic to re-lace the thing. If you want to go as far as I did with Jake (I used to bunny hop a lot of roadkill), have the wheel re-laced with DT or Wheelsmith double-butted spokes. The thinner inner length of the spoke with "give" a little where a straight gauge spoke will fatigue and break. I get some argument on that, but since I had it done, I haven't lost a single spoke. Also, for heavier loads, you want higher pressure in the tires. Otherwise pinch flats will bugger up your day.

Few bike companies will admit to their bikes holding our weight, probably for liability reasons, and the lighter racing type bikes just ain't built for us uber-Clydesdales.

City bikes are nice for short trips, but I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time on one, like on a longer trip. They'd be great for initial weight-loss work, though, and can be traded up for a more specialized type ride later (or keep it around as a local clunker bike... you can never have too many bikes!). The trikes are neat, but unless all your rides are from your driveway, they can be a pain to cart around, and when it's a pain to get your bike to the trail, it's *real* easy to come up with excuses not to ride.

There's been a lot of argument over the solid tires. No, they don't flat like a pneumatic, but I also think they feel dead... and they're very heavy compared to air-filled meats. With a little practice, the average flat will take just a few minutes to fix and you'll be on your way. Also, on a bugout or longer tour, kevlar-beaded tires can be packed as spares, for the unlikely event that a tire is badly damaged (which could easily take a solid-rubbered bike out of service). That being said, I've considered mounting a couple wheels with airless tires for my Montague and keeping them handy, just in case. If I get a better mtn. bike in the future, I might just slap 'em on
the Monty and leave 'em on, as that bike is quite solid and not nearly as lively as my old Cannondale was anyway. That's another option for you, by the way. The Montague Paratrooper is a VERY solid bike, and should easily be able to schlep you around while you pedal those extra pounds off.
It won't be as fast or poetic as a nice road bike, but it'll get you there without a lot of drama.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby Tater Raider » Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:29 pm

redcrow wrote:I'm 6'4" and right now I'm 350 pounds. The few bikes I can find the info lists a max load of 190lbs,
most companies just don't publish that info.

The weak link on bicycles as far as weight goes is the wheel and axles. Contact your LBS and see if they can make you some hardcore, heavy duty wheels. Last time I checked they run $75-$100 at my LBS. If you want to learn to lace wheels you can turn it into a DIY project and build your own.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby velojym » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:54 pm

I'll second the advice to learn wheelbuilding. Just about everything else is more or less bolt-on, with a couple exceptions. Wheelbuilding is an art/science that'll serve you well in the future, especially in our weight class.
If you're *real* worried... there are wheel components out there for tandem bikes. Some really big riders who do loaded touring have found them pretty bombproof on a single bike. They ain't light... but neither are we.
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Re: Re:

Postby xtrajack » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:31 pm

fungusmunkey wrote:
xtrajack wrote: Shiny I never expected to see another bikeforum member here.
Personally I rock an Xtracycle as a commuter, and I expect that I would not have any issues using it as a BOV. It will carry 200 pounds of darn near anything that I want to put on it.


I would appreciate more details about the xtracycle commuter. How is it working out for you as a DD? Are there any issues to be aware of due to the extra length? Difficulties locking it up? Do you get hop-ons?

I am considering adding a cargo bike to the stable to replace my pickup truck and would like practical experienced based opinions. The Yuba Mundo is what i'm looking at. Either that or just getting a heavy duty trailer from bikesatwork.com. But I can't decide between the two options.


I have been riding my Xtracycle year round, in Maine, for better than three years now. I have six other bicycles, but, the Xtracycle is the one that I use day in and day out.

I find that the extra length seems to help with stability, especially in the snow. It is almost impossible to endo one loaded, (the operative word there is almost)
Last fall I felt a compelling need to leave the road at speed---I had no idea that a bicycle would/could stop that fast. It didn't actually endo, but I did wind up going over the handlebars.

I have three locks-- a large U lock that goes through the front wheel and frame, a hardened square link chain w/lock that goes through front wheel, frame, and whatever I am locking to, and a cable w/lock that goes through the frame, rear wheel,and whatever I am locking to. Most of the time I don't actually need to lock it up.
If I am in an area where I feel a need to lock up, I use two locks on the front wheel (I have a front wheel e-assist motor) for extra security.

I don't know what a hop on is.

There is no reason that you couldn't do both a Yuba and a Bikes at Work trailer. I have a Burley flatbed that I use with my X. I would love to ugrade to a BAW trailer, just can't afford it, right now.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby velojym » Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:58 pm

I was kinda guessing maybe a hop-on was someone just randomly hopping on to the deck for a free ride.
Just a guess, though.

I've heard of it happening a bit with pedicabs.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby fungusmunkey » Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:31 am

Wow thanks for the review xtrajack.

That is just what I am looking for. The practical aspects of locking it up and such are also very good to know.

I meant the hop on as a joke really but I figured people might feel the urge to jump on!

I checked out the local cargo bike shop today and looked at the options. There are even more brands than I previously knew of but the Yuba still has the largest capacity with 400 pounds cargo plus rider (around 200 lbs). And it just feels much more solidly built than the other options, at the cost of weight. Plus it is the v3 model and the v4 is out so they will work some kind of discount for me.

After some test rides I think i'd prefer a cargo bike to a bike+trailer as it just rides easier.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby jamoni » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:13 am

JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby jamoni » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:28 am

RedCrow, Velojym speaks truth.
You want plenty of gears for touring. Those city bikes are cool, but you need to be able to ride up big hills carrying not only your weight, but your camping gear as well. That means low gears.
If I were in your position, I'd hit up a local bike co-op, and see if they can help. You can pick up a good frame and components, and they can help you find/build the right wheels for the job.

Also, completely unrelated, DO WANT:
http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/s ... age21.html
Looks like an old Raleigh 20!
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby redcrow » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:04 am

There are no hills in my area, but there is a lot of sand. The trip is between 6 miles and 9 miles depending on the camp site we chose.
The entire trip is flat land with paved roads and gravel roads. Is there anything special I should do for my tires on the gravel?
Besides carry a crate of spare tubes and a couple of spare tires.

While looking around at bike trailers I found a guy that built a trailer out of PVC pipe, inculding a teardrop trailer made to be towed by a bike.
Looks like the teardrop is made from sched 80 PVC pipes and fittings. Still trying to find a weight listing on the PVC, but it should be enough
to lug a BOB and a tent.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby velojym » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:04 pm

redcrow wrote:There are no hills in my area, but there is a lot of sand. The trip is between 6 miles and 9 miles depending on the camp site we chose.
The entire trip is flat land with paved roads and gravel roads. Is there anything special I should do for my tires on the gravel?
Besides carry a crate of spare tubes and a couple of spare tires.

While looking around at bike trailers I found a guy that built a trailer out of PVC pipe, inculding a teardrop trailer made to be towed by a bike.
Looks like the teardrop is made from sched 80 PVC pipes and fittings. Still trying to find a weight listing on the PVC, but it should be enough
to lug a BOB and a tent.


Sand = fat tires. I tried running in sand with my road bike once... didn't work out well. Fortunately, my day was completely redeemed when I realized that the
stretch of riverfront I was on was being used as a nude beach... and the girls were actually *pretty*!

Anyway, back on topic... what you're looking for is a mountain bike, preferably rigid (no shocks) if you're gonna pack bags, with fairly wide tires. The way sand is,
you'll likely want to still walk some sections, but it's still easier to push a bike with fat tires over sand than even with fairly wide touring tread. My Montague has
a hybrid tread: smooth in the middle, with lugs on the outside. I don't take extreme bank angles in the curves anymore, so the lugs haven't really been a problem
on the road.

When you're planning to stay on pavement, a pair of narrower, high pressure tires will have you rolling pretty darned fast. Heck, it's my ride of choice when I'm
doing urban assault. It isn't a horrible chore to change tires, but I'd eventually have a different wheelset so I could swap 'em quickly as needed. Almost like having two completely different bikes.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby jamoni » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:32 pm

Normally I'd recommend against trailers, as they add more maintenance, more stuff to break, and restrict the terrain you can ride on, but being a big guy, pushing the limits of the bike as is, a trailer might be a good idea for you.
I'd hop on craigslist and buy a used kid trailer in rough shape, then take the kiddie tent thing off, and lash a couple rubbermade bins to it. Light, waterproof, cheap, easy.
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby Jonas » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:17 pm

I ended up finding Halo twin rail courier tires at a bike shop in pittsburgh. Image

Unfortunately they only had neon green and pink in stock (it was primarily a fixe shop).

They are 700c x 24. I measured them w/ dial calipers and they are actually a few thousandths skinnier than my Vittoria Zaffiro Pros in 700c x 23. That said, it's the most aggressive tread pattern I've found w/ plenty of clearance. I only picked up one for the front to test it out. I did a quick 16 miles over the weekend. The difference isn't huge but it is noticeable. I'll get one for the back, possibly hit them with some spray paint.

Thanks andygates, I was thinking about decreasing my tire pressure a bit. I'm only 135lbs.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby reppans » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:51 pm

I'll throw in another vote for the Cyclocross bike as being the best bug out bicycle. Relax geometry for long distance riding, broad gearing range, wheels and overall build tough enough for reasonable off-road use, lots of rack mounting points for gear, yet a lot lighter/more efficient than a mountain bike. Course it depends on where you live and expected on-road vs off-road mileage.

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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby harris6541 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:56 am

Hey all,

Gotta couple of neat pieces of gear I've enjoyed over the years.

For those who like a little shock protection but who do not like the full suspension bikes (for what ever reason) see Cane Creek's Thud Buster seat post. http://www.canecreek.com/component-seatposts
I've had one on my Cannondale F500 for a while a couple of years now.

Also, on the pedals, Shimano makes a combination clipless/platform pedal that I have found to be hugely versatile. I like having the option to ride in sneakers/sandals on short in town trips and switch to cycling shoes for longer rides.
http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/pedals/mountain/product.-code-PD-M324.-type-.pd_mountain.html

Just a couple of thoughts.

Cheers!
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby ineffableone » Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:05 pm

Since no one had posted these yet, I thought I would post some very good bug out bike videos from youtube. They are well worth it to watch.

THE ULTIMATE BUG OUT VEHICLE (BOV)
PART 1

PART 2


Apocalypse Specific Bicycle The Bug Out Bike
A great series, some good info and thoughts in here, well worth the time to watch all 6.
I would also recommend this youtuber's other videos in general.
part 1 of 6

part 2 of 6

part 3 of 6

part 4 of 6

part 5 of 6

part 6 of 6
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby eugene » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:24 pm

Seems like a waste of a trail a bike in #2.
I would have built a small rack on either side, keep the weight lower.
I think I've posted the rack on the back of mien before
Image

Ehh, better picture
Image

The bag on top of the rack has pockets that open and hang down on both sides so heavier weight items can be low.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby jamoni » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:00 pm

Dear lord. Talk less, edit more!
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby congochris » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:53 pm

I got barely over a minute on video one of the apoc bike vids and started nodding off. :oops:


In other news, I've decided to try to build the hardrock frame I got as a singlespeed, and to leave it full rigid. It will also be OD. Now.. I just have to get that damn broken seatpost out! Yes, still. At this point in the game I've thrown it away and then pulled it out of the trash twice now (or maybe it was three times) and burnt off the hair on my arms when I stupidly tried to chill the inside by holding a can of air upside down and spray it in while simultaneously warming the outside with a propane torch. Yes, compressed air is very flammable. :roll: My last idea and last hope is to take a cheap harbor freight impact socket and cut the nose of it into a sort of holesaw to try to bore the damn thing out.

It has provided at least some amusement for the family though. As part of the chilling/heating trials, my mother did get to ask me at one point why in the hell there was a bicycle frame in the chest freezer. :lol:
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby jamoni » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:23 am

So, the seatpost is broken off down inside the frame? Ouch. Those things are pretty tough steel. I assume you've tried soaking it in PB Blaster or some other penetrating oil?
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby congochris » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:17 pm

Eh, it's actually aluminum. Inside a steel frame. Which is why it's stuck harder than if it was steel and welded in. I've used PB blaster, WD-40 - both sprayed from top and from inside one of the water bottle bolt holes.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby jamoni » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:24 pm

Well, if you weren't 800 miles away, I'd say bring it over and I'll see what I can do. :)
I'd probably rig up a simple adjustable broach, with one cutting tooth, or maybe just a section of hacksaw blade. Push it in and let it cut a few times, then adjust it out a hair and repeat. Eventually it would cut through the aluminum at one point, making it pretty easy to retrieve.
Alternatively, I'd make some sort of expanding plug or toggle that could be pushed through the aluminum pipe, catch it on the other side, and then use a slide hammer to remove it. In fact, that would probably be the easiest way.
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby congochris » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:11 pm

The catch and slidehammer was another idea I had. I may go that route before destroying an impact socket. Broke as I am, even a HF impact socket purchase is more than I can truly spare.

I did try cutting it with a hacksaw. Unfortunately with 13 or so inches of tube inside.. it.. didn't work. I hesitate to mention I got so frustrated I cut a sawzall blade short enough to fit in the pole and used a dewalt recip saw since the floppy ass hacksaw blade was useless. And at one point a cold chisel... ahem. I may have lightly dented the steel pole. I figure I'll just heat it with a torch and tap it back into shape, since it's not that deformed. I'm damn well going to get my $35.50's worth out of this damn frame! :lol:
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Re: bug out bicycle?

Postby jamoni » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:30 pm

Check it out:
Long piece of all thread.
Put a locking nut on one end, and a washer just small enough to fit down through the tube, then skip about 1.5" and put another washer and locknut on.
Now cut a piece of solid round steel about an inch long.
Drill a hole just the size of the all thread in the center of the steel.
Cut the steel in half, down the length of the hole.
You have two pieces that can be fitted around the all thread between the two washers.
Drop this whole kit and kaboodle down the pipe.
When the two steel halves pass through the seatpost, they should dislodge and allow you to pull up on the post.
Attach a slide hammer to the other end, and go to town.
The worst that could happen would be you now have a broken seat post, a chunk of all thread, some nuts and washers, and some steel scrap stuck in your bike. :)
JoergS wrote:Realistically, I think I can launch a nine pound chain saw at 50 fps from a shoulder mounted rubber powered bazooka...

squinty wrote:I reserve the right to yell "Dookyhole!" - or it's Hebrew equivalent if such a thing exists - whilst dispensing a barrage of palm strikes at my opponent.
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