Gunny's First Aid Kit **It is Reborn! Page 4&5 (Pics)**

Discussions of the best (or worst) equipment to have on hand for use in the event of an injury during an emergency.

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Post by Gunny » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:45 am

mrkash wrote:
Gunny wrote:-2 Tampons
Hmm... Being a guy, I never thought about this... Something I should add, I guess. (The simple things...)

Killer bag Bro! 8)
Its always the little things you need and don't have. It sounds lame, but give a girl a tampon during a time of crisis for her and you've made a buddy for life. I also like using them for when folks have bloody noses. Nothing like convincing a guy that hanging a tampon from his nose is the best cure for his ailment.

Added a write n the rain tablet, my good 'scope, IR light stick, more meds, tweezers, duct tape and moved some items around a bit. She's coming together.

Any more suggestions guys?

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Post by JIM » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:04 am

Gunny wrote:
mrkash wrote:
Gunny wrote:-2 Tampons
Hmm... Being a guy, I never thought about this... Something I should add, I guess. (The simple things...)

Killer bag Bro! 8)
Its always the little things you need and don't have. It sounds lame, but give a girl a tampon during a time of crisis for her and you've made a buddy for life. I also like using them for when folks have bloody noses. Nothing like convincing a guy that hanging a tampon from his nose is the best cure for his ailment.

Added a write n the rain tablet, my good 'scope, IR light stick, more meds, tweezers, duct tape and moved some items around a bit. She's coming together.

Any more suggestions guys?
There is a kelix-type specially designed for nose-bleeds. Ask your pharmacy if you want it.

As for female hygiene products... if there are no tampons, just take a triangulair bandage and stuff cotton-wool in it...

Ahh..that reminds me: you need some cotton-wool rolls :wink:

*EDIT*: Regarding Chest-seals: According to some people I know, the new version of the ACS, the 'Combat ACS' is about to be introduced to the market by the same manufacturer of the old one. Has anyone heard this as well?

And if you spent $150 on the bag, you might as well spent another $80-100 or so on a proper suction-device, such as the Res-Q-Vac.. :wink:

Finally: I would like to show you all Gunny's FAK, before and after:

Before:

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After (excuse me for borrowing your modeling-girl):

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Post by MarkTBSc » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:33 pm

Firstly, thanks for showing us the *inspiring* FAK Gunny. Not to mention providing the reams of medical advice. People should read this thread and its cousins no matter how they feel about preparedness! I've seen workplace First Aid manuals that are less well written!

Secondly - A note on particular brand names. It's sometimes difficult for those of us who don't live in the US to understand what you mean when you guys talk about medical equipment and refer to it by the US designation. Kerlix is a great example. My source of supply (http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk) doesn't recognise the term. I've kinda figured out that it's a gauze dressing type material, but it can be tricky. Similarly Moleskin. The only brand name I can think of that crosses over is Immodium.

Third, as far as I can see, no-one's mentioned Melolin yet in their kits. It's a low absorbancy dressing material that won't cling painfully to wounds. It's very useful if you've got grazes and minor wounds... Also if you've been hiking a lot in the PAW then it can be used to stop rubbing in sore spots (I've used it on red-raw inner thighs a lot of times... Other people's thighs, not my own.)
It's this stuff: Melolin data-sheet,
Melolin dressing package.

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Post by The Highwayman » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:22 pm

MarkTBSc wrote:Firstly, thanks for showing us the *inspiring* FAK Gunny. Not to mention providing the reams of medical advice. People should read this thread and its cousins no matter how they feel about preparedness! I've seen workplace First Aid manuals that are less well written!

Secondly - A note on particular brand names. It's sometimes difficult for those of us who don't live in the US to understand what you mean when you guys talk about medical equipment and refer to it by the US designation. Kerlix is a great example. My source of supply (http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk) doesn't recognise the term. I've kinda figured out that it's a gauze dressing type material, but it can be tricky. Similarly Moleskin. The only brand name I can think of that crosses over is Immodium.

Third, as far as I can see, no-one's mentioned Melolin yet in their kits. It's a low absorbancy dressing material that won't cling painfully to wounds. It's very useful if you've got grazes and minor wounds... Also if you've been hiking a lot in the PAW then it can be used to stop rubbing in sore spots (I've used it on red-raw inner thighs a lot of times... Other people's thighs, not my own.)
It's this stuff: Melolin data-sheet,
Melolin dressing package.

Mark

Kerlix is a gauze-type wrap, that is extremely dense... So, yes it is gauze.

Moleskin, however, is nothing at all like Immodium. Here is a link-

moleskin

It is used mainly to prevent/cushion blisters, corns, etc. on the feet. It usually comes in sheets, or rolls, and is then cut to specific size needed.
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Post by Gunny » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:26 pm

MarkTBSc wrote:Firstly, thanks for showing us the *inspiring* FAK Gunny. Not to mention providing the reams of medical advice. People should read this thread and its cousins no matter how they feel about preparedness! I've seen workplace First Aid manuals that are less well written!

Secondly - A note on particular brand names. It's sometimes difficult for those of us who don't live in the US to understand what you mean when you guys talk about medical equipment and refer to it by the US designation. Kerlix is a great example. My source of supply (http://www.stjohnsupplies.co.uk) doesn't recognise the term. I've kinda figured out that it's a gauze dressing type material, but it can be tricky. Similarly Moleskin. The only brand name I can think of that crosses over is Immodium.

Third, as far as I can see, no-one's mentioned Melolin yet in their kits. It's a low absorbancy dressing material that won't cling painfully to wounds. It's very useful if you've got grazes and minor wounds... Also if you've been hiking a lot in the PAW then it can be used to stop rubbing in sore spots (I've used it on red-raw inner thighs a lot of times... Other people's thighs, not my own.)
It's this stuff: Melolin data-sheet,
Melolin dressing package.

Mark
Hey Mark:

Unfortunately trying to figure out the generic names for UK meds and how they relate to US meds can be flustrating. Kerlix is basically cotton gauze. It usually comes in large rolls as seen here in the pictures. I sent some to Nexy and Brash so if you get a chance to meet those guys, they should have examples of both.

Kerlix sounds suspiciously like the quoted Melolin you mentioned but I'm not certain.

I'm planning on incorporating a rather large section (Helped by forum member Sheddi) in the BOB mega thread which will include UK suppliers, products and the same. I'll work on incorporating more UK products, it's high time we moved this shit more international.

Thanks for the read!

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Post by JIM » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:55 am

The problem is that Kerlix isn't very well known or even produced outside of the US. Therefor it's very expensive to get over here.. SP-services sells 100 rolls for about 250 pounds...that's crazy if you're only looking for some Kerlix for a FAK (well, unless you're Gunny off course :lol: )

The only thing I can get is H&H PriMed-gauze for about €2,- a packet. And I need to get that from Germany :(
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Post by MarkTBSc » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:11 pm

Hmmm... I don't know how close this is to Kerlix but I can get it pretty cheap. It may be that it simply isn't sterile, in which case all I'd need to do is make sure to pad the wound with something sterile and then wrap with this. It'd allow me to carry only a small amount of sterile material (hard to keep sterile in a PAW situation anyway) but plenty of bandage material. Not to mention this stuff can always be sterilised by boiling.

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Post by A Pimp Named Slickback » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:43 pm

may or may not be a stupid question but Gunny if your carrying that and your IFAK is it attached to that using the molle system or what?
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Post by Gunny » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:06 am

Not a dumb question:

I've still got my Kifaru FAK for my BOB. The trauma bag stays with me in the car or on extended camping outings usually.

If SHTF I can attach the trauma bag to my Kifaru, but ideally I'll be able to have someone either sherpa it for me, or it'll stay in my BOV until needed.

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Post by A Pimp Named Slickback » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:27 am

I may do that in a way 2 different kits one to carry along with BOB and one for the car i am getting. The bug out bag i am going with is an alice based system while most likely the FAK/trauma will be molle but found a solution around that. As you can tell i am about portability
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Post by MarkTBSc » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:47 pm

Two things that have occurred to me with time and thought. Firstly on the subject of tampons and sanitary towels (I dearly hope I don't sound too weird saying this), you might want to consider the smaller version. By the look of the ones in your bag, you went for the applicator version. For the same size, you could fit in four or six of the tiny lil-lets. Also, they can be used for bullet wounds. Stick a tampon in a bullethole and it plugs it nicely.

Sanitary towels, the ones with wings and the adhesive strips? Perfect wound dressings. Just slap one on if you're out of other materials... Not to mention the girl-approved uses.

I can't take credit for these suggestions. I've just been reading too much John Ringo of late.

Secondly, a surgical set. You can find WW2 surgical sets on ebay. Forceps, hemostats, needle holders and clamps in a small package. Not too big and not too heavy. I'm not suggesting that you could use them, but if a doctor was to hand but without his equipment in an emergency situation then a surgical kit might save someone's life.
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Post by Dak Kovar » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:36 pm

Wow Gunny. Really nice. I have to hang out here more often.
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Post by Gunny » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:48 pm

MarkTBSc wrote:Two things that have occurred to me with time and thought. Firstly on the subject of tampons and sanitary towels (I dearly hope I don't sound too weird saying this), you might want to consider the smaller version. By the look of the ones in your bag, you went for the applicator version. For the same size, you could fit in four or six of the tiny lil-lets. Also, they can be used for bullet wounds. Stick a tampon in a bullethole and it plugs it nicely.

Sanitary towels, the ones with wings and the adhesive strips? Perfect wound dressings. Just slap one on if you're out of other materials... Not to mention the girl-approved uses.

I can't take credit for these suggestions. I've just been reading too much John Ringo of late.

Secondly, a surgical set. You can find WW2 surgical sets on ebay. Forceps, hemostats, needle holders and clamps in a small package. Not too big and not too heavy. I'm not suggesting that you could use them, but if a doctor was to hand but without his equipment in an emergency situation then a surgical kit might save someone's life.
I appreciate your reply. Two things:

If you're using tampons in wounds, you either need to get more training or invest in some Kerlix. A tampon in a wound is the very last resort usually reserved for those who read about medicine on an internet forum ;)

Secondly, I've got a complete surgery set sufficient for debriding, suturing and similar. Did you read my contents list?

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Post by MarkTBSc » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:56 am

Not an internet forum, Gunny. John Ringo's "Paladin of Shadows" book series. Principally the first book "Ghost". Mucho sex and violence. Pretty damn good and the second book, Kildar, is even better.

Moving swiftly along...

Read your contents list? Read? READ!

Please Gunny! Requires effort. I was just looking at the pretty pictures.

:wink:

But now I see that where I was looking for a "Surgical kit", you essentially have the tools just not in a 'Kit' form.

Sooo...... Never mind. Sorry to bother you.

*sinks away in embarassment*
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Post by Gunny » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:29 pm

Don't worry Mark, I still love you ;)

The below concept isn't mine, I stole it from Doc Simon (hurry back bro).

I wanted to organize my meds a bit better and here's my attempt:

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Post by The Highwayman » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:00 pm

Gunny, you bringing the STOMP to the campout?

Between the two of us, we should be able to patch up any wounds that BeerandGuns either incurs himself, or causes others! :lol: :lol:
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Post by Gunny » Wed May 07, 2008 6:28 am

Big update coming soon on this bag along with 2 IFAK essentials threads and 2 zss feed articles.

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Tampons

Post by Max » Wed May 07, 2008 8:33 pm

I'm not sure where this "tampons in bullet wounds" thing got started but I can't seem to find any credible advice from medical professionals recommending it. First of all, I don't believe that tampons are sterile. Of course, in an emergency, you use what you have, and of course the bullet wasn't sterile to begin with, but it seems like bad medicine to be stuffing something like that into a wound. Secondly, bullet holes come in all shapes and sizes, but I see two risks with stuffing a tampon into a wound - either stretching a too-small hole with a rigid applicator to make it fit, or risking the loss of your tampon into a too-large hole. There are times when packing a wound is appropriate, but I don't think a tampon is the proper item to use. Third, tampons are quite absorbent, possibly more so than regular medical dressings (I don't know that much about tampons actually). I would think that absorbency might cause a wound to continue to bleed. Not sure but perhaps someone else can shed some light?

No disrespect intended but tampons don't seem a good idea for bullet wounds. They would be good to carry in a medical bag for their intended use, but not for this. Anyone have any more insight?

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Re: Tampons

Post by JIM » Thu May 08, 2008 5:03 am

Max wrote:I'm not sure where this "tampons in bullet wounds" thing got started but I can't seem to find any credible advice from medical professionals recommending it. First of all, I don't believe that tampons are sterile. Of course, in an emergency, you use what you have, and of course the bullet wasn't sterile to begin with, but it seems like bad medicine to be stuffing something like that into a wound. Secondly, bullet holes come in all shapes and sizes, but I see two risks with stuffing a tampon into a wound - either stretching a too-small hole with a rigid applicator to make it fit, or risking the loss of your tampon into a too-large hole. There are times when packing a wound is appropriate, but I don't think a tampon is the proper item to use. Third, tampons are quite absorbent, possibly more so than regular medical dressings (I don't know that much about tampons actually). I would think that absorbency might cause a wound to continue to bleed. Not sure but perhaps someone else can shed some light?

No disrespect intended but tampons don't seem a good idea for bullet wounds. They would be good to carry in a medical bag for their intended use, but not for this. Anyone have any more insight?

Well they're not ideal, like the use of OB-pads for field-dressings, but it works in a pinch. However I would still prefer to stuff a roll of kerlix into a bullet-wound.

Tampons to have another good use for a FAK: Nose-bleeds. Just soak one into Xylometazoline 1% and stuff it into the nostril that's bleeding. Works like a charm!
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Re: Tampons

Post by Gunny » Thu May 08, 2008 9:48 am

Max wrote:I'm not sure where this "tampons in bullet wounds" thing got started but I can't seem to find any credible advice from medical professionals recommending it. First of all, I don't believe that tampons are sterile. Of course, in an emergency, you use what you have, and of course the bullet wasn't sterile to begin with, but it seems like bad medicine to be stuffing something like that into a wound. Secondly, bullet holes come in all shapes and sizes, but I see two risks with stuffing a tampon into a wound - either stretching a too-small hole with a rigid applicator to make it fit, or risking the loss of your tampon into a too-large hole. There are times when packing a wound is appropriate, but I don't think a tampon is the proper item to use. Third, tampons are quite absorbent, possibly more so than regular medical dressings (I don't know that much about tampons actually). I would think that absorbency might cause a wound to continue to bleed. Not sure but perhaps someone else can shed some light?

No disrespect intended but tampons don't seem a good idea for bullet wounds. They would be good to carry in a medical bag for their intended use, but not for this. Anyone have any more insight?
My tampons are for broken vagoos or runny noses, not for GSW's.

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Re: Tampons

Post by KotaLu » Thu May 15, 2008 5:48 am

Gunny wrote:
Max wrote:I'm not sure where this "tampons in bullet wounds" thing got started but I can't seem to find any credible advice from medical professionals recommending it. First of all, I don't believe that tampons are sterile. Of course, in an emergency, you use what you have, and of course the bullet wasn't sterile to begin with, but it seems like bad medicine to be stuffing something like that into a wound. Secondly, bullet holes come in all shapes and sizes, but I see two risks with stuffing a tampon into a wound - either stretching a too-small hole with a rigid applicator to make it fit, or risking the loss of your tampon into a too-large hole. There are times when packing a wound is appropriate, but I don't think a tampon is the proper item to use. Third, tampons are quite absorbent, possibly more so than regular medical dressings (I don't know that much about tampons actually). I would think that absorbency might cause a wound to continue to bleed. Not sure but perhaps someone else can shed some light?

No disrespect intended but tampons don't seem a good idea for bullet wounds. They would be good to carry in a medical bag for their intended use, but not for this. Anyone have any more insight?
My tampons are for broken vagoos or runny noses, not for GSW's.
zactly!

The whole idea came from story books... "Ghost" and a couple of others. It was written as if the character, though using them in a pinch, seemed to stock them specifically for bullet wounds. Eh, gotta love a story...

Anyway, AWESOME bag, Gunny. I am using this new set up as a model for items I will be adding to my BOV bag. The pics are great!
Thanks
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Re: Tampons

Post by Citizen Simon » Thu May 15, 2008 3:13 pm

KotaLu wrote: zactly!

The whole idea came from story books... "Ghost" and a couple of others. It was written as if the character, though using them in a pinch, seemed to stock them specifically for bullet wounds. Eh, gotta love a story...

Anyway, AWESOME bag, Gunny. I am using this new set up as a model for items I will be adding to my BOV bag. The pics are great!
Thanks
Also in the beginning of our current war medics used them from time to time.
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Post by KotaLu » Fri May 16, 2008 6:23 am

I guess I could see using them temporarily... but still the fact of the matter is, tampons absorb blood, they do not stop bleeding. When they are saturated, they are replaced, and the uterus continues to bleed until the lining has been shed and the cycle repeats.

A tampon was not designed to treat a severed artery from a bullet wound. If you stick a tampon in a bullet wound, it will absorb blood. This is very different from stopping the bleeding.It seems like the bleeding is stopped, but in reality it just can't see it for a while. In the meantime, the patient continues to exanguinate and slips further into hypovolemic shock.

If you want to stop arterial bleeding, pack the wound with the latest QuickClot tea bags, and/or pack it full of Kerlix gauze or you may have to cut the wound edges open so you can get down to the artery and apply continuous direct pressure, and then pack it with a hemostatic agent like QuickClot and/or Kerlix.

But then, you guys already knew that 8)
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Post by JIM » Fri May 16, 2008 6:48 am

You can apply all the gauze in the world: it won't help. You need both gauze AND pressure to stop a (serious) bleed.
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