Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

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Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by waltcallie » Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:07 pm

I have recently acquired about 10 4x4 Hemcons. Does anyone have any opinions or real world stories involving this product. How about tips on usage and any contraindications. Thanks everyone.

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by flyingjibus » Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:35 pm

tag for info. I just got some blemished ones on the cheap! Cheap enough to experiment with. Love to here some real world experiances about this much touted item.

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Citizen Simon » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:56 am

I used one on superficial shrapnel wounds to the face once. It worked. Though, mostly just so i could use it, not for a real bleed.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by waltcallie » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:36 pm

used my first one in a real world situation last night. beer bottle vs. cranium. 4-5cm laceration. now for you city slickers with an ER 10 minutes away this is no big deal. for me, my AO is a small island accessible only by a 45 minute ferry ride or a equally time consuming medevac. anyway, attempted to control bleeding by all the conventional means with no success. (the amount of alcohol on board the pt was not helping) as a last resort tried the HemCon and bleeding stopped within 2 minutes. started some fluids, packaged, and hit the road. the only thing i can not attest to is how much of a mess the ER doc had to deal with. i would suspect, not much. nothing like the granular products on the market. as you people have read on here hemostatics are not for every wound. only those where conventional means (direct pressure, elevation, pressure point, and TK's) are not applicable. hope this helps, get on ebay and get em while they're cheap and still out of "vogue"
oh yeah, one more thing, they take up virtually no space in my kit

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Chris@MTCT » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:48 pm

We were issued the hemcon's back in the day till the Army switched over to combat gauze. I prefer the gauze cause its easier to mess with, But I still have a few hems running around that are still good.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Phaedrus » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:00 pm

I've used a couple of different HemCon products, the KytoStat 1"x3" (more accurately a band-aid type dressing with a 1" square HemCon pad and adhesive wrap) and the 4"x4" version.

My first use of the KytoStat was to close a fairly deep 1" cut to the radial side my wrist, about 5" back from the thumb. I was cutting thru some very, heavy cardboard with my Kershaw Scallion when it popped out the other side a bit more suddenly than I expected, burying itself in my arm. Direct pressure probably would have stopped it just fine but I'd just bought the HemCons a couple weeks before and decided to try one. It stopped the bleeding nearly instantaneously, just about 1/2 of a drop trickled out from under the bandage before it stopped.

I had occasion to use the 4" x 4" a couple months ago during a camping trip. The night before I left I sharpened my Ontario SP8 survival machette, a 1/4" thick, 10" long slab of 1095 high carbon made for heavy chopping. I polished it past a DMT CX diasharp with a Naniwa 2K waterstone up to the shaving sharp, push-cutting-paper level. Well, I hadn't been at the wood processing for 10 minutes when in a baffling moment of stupidity I attempted to split a small stick instead of batonning it. As you probably guessed I missed the stick and hit my index finger near where it meets the palm, hitting bone and resulting in a spray of blood. I'll admit it- I've had many, many bad cuts from years of working as a chef (finger tips cut off, nails cut off with a mandolin, etc) but this one had me rattled for a minute...there was a tremendous amount of blood. I tried direct pressure but wasn't really getting it completely stopped. Long story short I ripped into a 4x4 and cut it down into a couple small pads and a couple strips (after irrigating with a strong stream of water). Almost unbelievably, it worked just like before, all bleeding immediately ceased. Now I still had a lot of wood to baton, so I carefully resumed by work and did eventually rip the clot off but another peice stopped it just as quickly.

One thing that really impressed me, aside from how quickly they stop bleeding, is how cleanly the cut seems to heal aftewards. I don't know if it's because the quasi-clot glues the tissue together more tightly or what, but they do seem to promote healing.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by sdkmcqueen » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:20 pm

Did you guys get these for free because on chinook medical they're 154 bucks a pop. Waaaaaay too much IMHO.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by AZMedic » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:18 pm

sdkmcqueen wrote:Did you guys get these for free because on chinook medical they're 154 bucks a pop. Waaaaaay too much IMHO.
a lot of us have experince with them through A. Training or B. Its called work. We do the shit we preach.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by sdkmcqueen » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:22 pm

sdkmcqueen wrote:
Did you guys get these for free because on chinook medical they're 154 bucks a pop. Waaaaaay too much IMHO.
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I think that came out wrong. I was asking if you guys paid the 150 bucks for each of them or were they issued.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Phaedrus » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:49 am

I bought my KytoStats retail for about $4 each but the 4x4's I got on eBay. I'll admit I had reservations but the product carries the same labeling and numbers on it but they were only about $12-15 each. Still spendy but better than $145! And I can attest to the fact that they work, and the expiration date is several years out.
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Red_Ramage wrote:Dr. Bear Grylls disagrees with all of you
Well, let him put Tylenol Gel-Caps in his shitter all day long. As for me, I'll use as directed. :)

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Ech0Sierra » Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:54 pm

Phaedrus wrote:I bought my KytoStats retail for about $4 each but the 4x4's I got on eBay. I'll admit I had reservations but the product carries the same labeling and numbers on it but they were only about $12-15 each. Still spendy but better than $145! And I can attest to the fact that they work, and the expiration date is several years out.
By that do you mean they've been expired for several years or they won't expire for several years?

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Phaedrus » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:17 am

Ech0Sierra wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:I bought my KytoStats retail for about $4 each but the 4x4's I got on eBay. I'll admit I had reservations but the product carries the same labeling and numbers on it but they were only about $12-15 each. Still spendy but better than $145! And I can attest to the fact that they work, and the expiration date is several years out.
By that do you mean they've been expired for several years or they won't expire for several years?
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant to say they won't expire for several years. Although I suspect given the technology that they'll probably be effective long after the "expiration date" printed on the package.
Meat N' Taters wrote:
Red_Ramage wrote:Dr. Bear Grylls disagrees with all of you
Well, let him put Tylenol Gel-Caps in his shitter all day long. As for me, I'll use as directed. :)

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Tac Medic » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:32 am

Arizona...........relax Brother.......Jes......Couple rough shifts ? Mean Charge Nurses ?........Shit you picked the field. We are both dumb asses. E-mail me if you wanna vent, the guy just had a question. I can say, PLEASE use common sense when purchasing something on Ebay, then betting said LIFE or LOVED ONE'S LIFE on said product. The Hemcon is a great dressing, it's the only one that came thru the "Hemostatic Storm" over the last ten years, 11 years unscathed. You can count on the original, properly obtained product.

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by throwback » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:15 pm

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant to say they won't expire for several years. Although I suspect given the technology that they'll probably be effective long after the "expiration date" printed on the package.
It's been a few years since I was using them regularly (in training. I never had to use them regularly in the field) but at that point, the company was still giving extensions on every unopened Hemcon out there. Even the oldest lots tested still performed well enough that they were satisfied. In fact, the company claimed that the product seemed to work BETTER as it aged.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by RGR SNAPLINK » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:17 am

Used one on an Iraqi stepped on glass from a window we broke out. Ripped strips of it off and shoved in onto the hole. Hurt the guy, but worked like a dream.

I have about 50 of them that were gonna be thrown away at work, so I grabbed them. Once my membership goes through, I will post them here on the cheap.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by cityscout » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:25 pm

I used them back when the army still issued them. We had problems with them sticking to the medic's gloves. They do work though. Just be careful if anyone you know has a shellfish allergy.
The newer things are either the quikclot gauze or the new Israeli bandage with it built in.

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by ista_hota » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:29 pm

Trust me on this one, I HAVE a shellfish allergy and had zero problems with a Chitosan based hemostatic agent being used on me.

Shellfish allergies are in absolutely no way whatsoever a contraindication to the use of Chitosan based products. You don't even have to take my word for it on the internet because frankly, it's common knowledge.

I should just post a thread about this and request it be stickied because seriously, every thread....... :evil: :evil:

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by cityscout » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:12 pm

ista_hota wrote:Trust me on this one, I HAVE a shellfish allergy and had zero problems with a Chitosan based hemostatic agent being used on me.

Shellfish allergies are in absolutely no way whatsoever a contraindication to the use of Chitosan based products.
It keeps showing up because all the military personnel who are were trained on them were trained to never, ever, use them on anyone with a shellfish allergy.

From Hemcon "However, since chitosan is extracted from the shells of shrimp, other shellfish and fungi, individuals with known shellfish allergies should exercise caution in the use of products containing chitosan."

Quikclot has no allergic side effects. That's one of the reasons the military ended the use of it.

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by ista_hota » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:40 pm

cityscout wrote: It keeps showing up because all the military personnel who are were trained on them were trained to never, ever, use them on anyone with a shellfish allergy.
I wasn't....

And again... I PERSONALLY have a mollusk allergy and have PERSONALLY had the stuff used on me and am here to tell the tale. It's a myth, there is NO evidence of it whatsoever, anywhere, at all.

You also clipped the quote from HemCon, the full text of which reads;
There have been no known allergic reactions as a result of using the HemCon Bandage since distribution began in 2003 and there have been no adverse effects reported in over 700,000 bandages shipped.
HemCon, Inc. has results from a shellfish allergy study conducted by its chitosan supplier which demonstrates that, out of 221 individuals with suspected hypersensitivity, including 8 individuals with known shellfish allergies, none demonstrated any dermal sensitivity when pricked with a chitosan test solution. However, since chitosan is extracted from the shells of shrimp and other shellfish, individuals with known shellfish allergies should exercise caution in the use of products containing chitosan.
The line you quoted is a broad spectrum disclaimer, like how they put "may contain trace elements of peanuts" on the packaging for shit like... I dunno.... ceiling fans. If they didn't put the disclaimer in there then on the far outside off chance that a one in a million case did happen, they'd be raped in court.

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by cityscout » Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:29 pm

Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care
Meeting Minutes 22-24 July 2008
The CoTCCC voted in April to recommend Combat Gauze and WoundStat as the
new primary and secondary hemostatic agents to be used on the battlefield based on new
research from the U.S. Army Institute of Surgical Research and the Naval Medical Research
Center.

I am not going to spend all day debating how someone who is a allergic to Mollusca didn't have an allergic reaction to shrimp. All I am trying to say is that Hemcon has some problems. That is why you can find it so often. They produced a lot of product that the military didn't want. It was one of the first hemostatic agents the military tested and it has sense been banned from use for the military.

If you understand why it was reject and still want to use it, good for you. I still have some in my first aid kit. But I would prefer to use combat gauze. If for no other reason then it is less likely to cause a 2nd degree burn in the wound site or to the person applying pressure.

http://www.health.mil/dhb/downloads/Mee ... 202008.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by ista_hota » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:01 pm

I am well aware of and have never debated that CG is now issued and indicated over HemCon - at no point did I say otherwise, all I did was point out the FACT that there has never been any evidence whatsoever of shellfish allergies being contraindicative to Chitosan products.

For the record my personal kits all have gauze as the primary and ACS and C-A secondary. I'm not defending Hemcon bandages as a product because frankly I don't particularly care for them and never did, all I am saying and all I have said throughout the entire thread is that no, having allergies to ANY kind of seafood, be it molluska, crustacea or zombiesharkea has never been shown to make any difference whatsoever to the subject at hand. This is a fact. Trying to change what we're arguing about doesn't change that fact and frankly I'll not be drawn into it because it's juvenile.

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by ista_hota » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:04 pm

cityscout wrote:If for no other reason then it is less likely to cause a 2nd degree burn in the wound site or to the person applying pressure.
And uh... what? HemCon is non exothermic...

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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Phaedrus » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:09 am

cityscout wrote: I am not going to spend all day debating how someone who is a allergic to Mollusca didn't have an allergic reaction to shrimp. All I am trying to say is that Hemcon has some problems. That is why you can find it so often. They produced a lot of product that the military didn't want. It was one of the first hemostatic agents the military tested and it has sense been banned from use for the military.

If you understand why it was reject and still want to use it, good for you. I still have some in my first aid kit. But I would prefer to use combat gauze. If for no other reason then it is less likely to cause a 2nd degree burn in the wound site or to the person applying pressure.

http://www.health.mil/dhb/downloads/Mee ... 202008.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your assertions don't appear at all in the document you list. In fact, careful reading and running a search on the doc shows no mention of Hemcon or Celox at all. Can you find the section that mentions them? In any event, that's flatly incorrect- neither Hemcon nor Celox is endothermic to any measurable degree, but both Wound Stat and QC are. That this err is so oft repeated is baffling given how easily and cheaply you could disprove it yourself- just dump a 2 gram packet into a little water and measure the "reaction" with a thermocouple. I've used it on myself repeatedly, and I can assure you there's not even the slightest sensation of heat.

In fact, IIRC Wound Stat has actually been banned recently, reportedly for causing fatal embolisms and being a nightmare to debride from the wound. This problem is common in hemostatic agents that use Kaolin and volcanic materials. I also note that paper is several years old. I don't think any of the current products by any of those companies was even created yet, save Combat Gauze (which IIRC uses the newer formulation of QC that burn you less). If Celox or Hemcon has ever been proven to harm someone I've never seen the data. One issue that did arise with the 4x4's is that it was found, predictably, that patching the entrance and exit would with surface treatments wasn't as effective as packing the wound with hemostatic gauze. Hence the use of Combat Gauze.
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Re: Hemcon, anyone have experiences good or bad?

Post by Tac Medic » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:03 pm

Phaedrus, thank you. All valid, and CORRECT points.

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