New CPR promises better results by compressing abdomen

Discussions of the best (or worst) equipment to have on hand for use in the event of an injury during an emergency.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Fiacharrey
*
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:39 pm
Location: South Louisiana

New CPR promises better results by compressing abdomen

Post by Fiacharrey » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:10 am

http://www.purdue.edu/uns/x/2007b/070905GeddesCPR.html

Sounds amazing. Supposedly, it pumps 25% more blood, gives a breath with every compression making MtM unnecessary, and can be done effectively by one person. More studies need to be done, but this might really change things.

User avatar
Nexy
* * *
Posts: 356
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:24 am
Location: Wales, UK

Post by Nexy » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:55 am

Cool, seems like a huge leap forward if it works!
Member
ZSC:010- UK Chapter

User avatar
Citizen Simon
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3577
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:31 am
Location: Ft. Polk LA
Contact:

Post by Citizen Simon » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:16 am

A few things bother me about this article. They are showing only the statistics that support their ideas, while not making all of them relevant. It doesnt matter if 80% of doctors and nurses wouldnt do mouth to mouth on strangers. The main reason being - it isnt their job. That is the job of the first responder/life guard/EMT. Doctors and nurses (as well as EMTS and a lot of first responders) have these highspeed contracptions called 'Bag Valve Masks' and 'pocket masks' that do the job for you. Mouth to mouth is rarely used without a mask because there are masks that we use now.

(having to cut this short I will edit it and add more later)
Image
I survived Zombie Con 07
I survived LA Camp and Shoot 07
I survived LA Camp and Shoot 09

AK-9-Pie

User avatar
crypto
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 16637
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Location: City of Saint Louis

Post by crypto » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:42 am

Wow, yeah, that looks awesome. The idea of snapping ribs always struck me as bad.
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image

User avatar
axisofignorance
*
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:17 pm
Location: Socal

Post by axisofignorance » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:52 pm

Did one of his students write this for extra credit?

Yes in the case of cardiac arrest hospital staff stand by and decide who gets the claim the pt's jewelery while he dies. :roll:

False dilemma:
Involves a situation in which two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there exist one or more other options which have not been considered.

A.Throw bsi out the window and give squints a wet one.
B.Watch PT die.

Im sure his actual paper has better info, this wasnt an actual medical publication.

User avatar
waterborne
*
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Laurens SC

Post by waterborne » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:44 am

What if the pt. is pregnant?
Heart beats, air goes in and out, and O2 is good.

User avatar
thorian
* * * * *
Posts: 4544
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:27 am
Location: Outside of Columbia MO
Contact:

Post by thorian » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:43 am

Then most likely you would injure the fetus. Honestly if the PT is Pregnant and in Cardiac arrest the fetus is in danger to begin with.
VOL FF 1 & 2, EMT-B, Hazmat Ops, Vehicle Extrication Technician, High angle rescue technician, and that is just the hobby...

User avatar
axisofignorance
*
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:17 pm
Location: Socal

Post by axisofignorance » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:11 pm

waterborne wrote:What if the pt. is pregnant?
In addition to providing superior perfusion, this method also produces an amusing baby launcher in pregnant PTs. lol.

clybourn
* * *
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:23 pm
Location: chicago

Post by clybourn » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:30 pm

Doc Simon wrote:A few things bother me about this article. They are showing only the statistics that support their ideas, while not making all of them relevant. It doesnt matter if 80% of doctors and nurses wouldnt do mouth to mouth on strangers. The main reason being - it isnt their job. That is the job of the first responder/life guard/EMT. Doctors and nurses (as well as EMTS and a lot of first responders) have these highspeed contracptions called 'Bag Valve Masks' and 'pocket masks' that do the job for you. Mouth to mouth is rarely used without a mask because there are masks that we use now.

(having to cut this short I will edit it and add more later)

I kind of assumed they meant if they found someone on the street and they had no equipment. I don't think EMS folk would be too much different with the exception of working on children and that's based on emotion.

In terms of a pregnant female, the provider can revert to the chest compressions.

Interesting stuff all the same.

User avatar
Citizen Simon
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3577
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:31 am
Location: Ft. Polk LA
Contact:

Post by Citizen Simon » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:46 pm

clybourn wrote:
Doc Simon wrote:A few things bother me about this article. They are showing only the statistics that support their ideas, while not making all of them relevant. It doesnt matter if 80% of doctors and nurses wouldnt do mouth to mouth on strangers. The main reason being - it isnt their job. That is the job of the first responder/life guard/EMT. Doctors and nurses (as well as EMTS and a lot of first responders) have these highspeed contracptions called 'Bag Valve Masks' and 'pocket masks' that do the job for you. Mouth to mouth is rarely used without a mask because there are masks that we use now.

(having to cut this short I will edit it and add more later)

I kind of assumed they meant if they found someone on the street and they had no equipment. I don't think EMS folk would be too much different with the exception of working on children and that's based on emotion.

In terms of a pregnant female, the provider can revert to the chest compressions.

Interesting stuff all the same.
Sorry I am not done with this rant yet. I will probably finish it this weekend. I'll get to this I promise.
Image
I survived Zombie Con 07
I survived LA Camp and Shoot 07
I survived LA Camp and Shoot 09

AK-9-Pie

User avatar
Scott Skawronska
* * *
Posts: 436
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:45 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: That one with that guy, and he does that thing, and then they all get eaten! Which one was that?
Location: Tampa, FL

Post by Scott Skawronska » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:30 pm

My concern would be where on the abdomen. And how about that little bit of bone called the xiphoid process at the bottom of the sternum? Didn't they teach us in CPR school that breaking that little thing was a BAD thing due to the proximity to the heart?

I haven't read the article. Just a first glance.

And while I don't like the idea of breaking ribs, I like the idea of running sharp bits of bone into a cardiac patient's heart even less.

Just a thought.

S
"It burns me up when elitists try to force us into a situation where we must either beg for a totalitarian police state or submit to the desires of the antisocial."

Zombies? Yeah, they're good eatin', but ya gotta have hot sauce, and remember, they regenerate, so if you eat enough, you'll never be hungry again!

GanaEMT
* * * *
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:54 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by GanaEMT » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:44 pm

Scott Skawronska wrote:And how about that little bit of bone called the xiphoid process at the bottom of the sternum? Didn't they teach us in CPR school that breaking that little thing was a BAD thing due to the proximity to the heart?
Not the heart, but other important organs. Namely the lungs and liver.


There's a lot to take issue with over this OAC-CPR thing, but I'll hold off until the AMJ article comes out to judge.
"Four things greater than all things are,—
Women and Horses and Power and War."
-Rudyard Kipling

NREMT-Paramedic
Doc Simon wrote:Gana has reached immortal status. He is the greatest poster in the history of ZS. I bow before him, knowing still I am not worthy.
Read: I'm not your doctor

Caenus
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:56 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: the ones where people turn into zombies
Location: Arizonastan

Post by Caenus » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:39 pm

This could be a very important advance. Hopefully there is proper research done and training available. Although it is presented as theoretical in this article, I too am looking forward to the actual publication.

As mentioned, it does not help pregnant womens' babies, nor those with abdominal wounds.

Post Reply

Return to “First Aid”