Pick 5 meds...

Discussions of the best (or worst) equipment to have on hand for use in the event of an injury during an emergency.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by dtwn92 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:59 am

Solid topic that continues to be a wealth of knowledge. Funny the majority hit the same 2 or 3 meds over and over again and some are totally off the grid. Maybe that is because people react different to certain meds and those work best for individuals rather than an across the board best for everyone.

While in paramedic school, my instructor said something that has stuck with me "medicines are controlled poisons that hit the therapeutic target". Pretty much sums it up. I noticed as I've aged, meds that used to work wonders for me now make me sick.

So keep that in mind when picking the 5 you want.
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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by medic photog » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:18 am

dtwn92 wrote:Solid topic that continues to be a wealth of knowledge. Funny the majority hit the same 2 or 3 meds over and over again and some are totally off the grid. Maybe that is because people react different to certain meds and those work best for individuals rather than an across the board best for everyone.

While in paramedic school, my instructor said something that has stuck with me "medicines are controlled poisons that hit the therapeutic target". Pretty much sums it up. I noticed as I've aged, meds that used to work wonders for me now make me sick.

So keep that in mind when picking the 5 you want.
Yep, this is a great topic for some and a learning experience for all. I know I've been a prehospital provdier for thirty five years and I still learn something new almost every day. Like most, I'm good with the meds I deal with daily, but there are a bunch that are not, shall we say, in favor, by the local doctors. I'm going to suggest that most, if not all, get a good solid education in pharmacology for making decisions on PAW meds. It's not like it's going to be a situation where after a few days you can hit up the local doctor, pharmacy, or ER, those things may be long gone and pilfered by the masses. If you're on prescription meds, those should be high on your list of the five. If you're not, you might want to consider that meds may be a bartering tool in a PAW, or a reason for the masses to come a gunin for ya. Whatever you decide, you might want to download a free PDR- physician's desck reference- called EPOCRATIES.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by tac57 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:52 pm

Second epocrates, but the one i use all the time is the free medscape app.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by ViolentKooter » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:57 pm

Nickthezombiehunter wrote:
Keith B wrote:I learned the benefits of ranitidine from a courteous ER doc many years ago. The five drugs I carry in my backwoods kit are:

1)Ibuprofen-I'm not a big fan of naproxen, this takes away the aches and pains of the trail.

2)Imodium-cause no bowel movement is better than too many bowel movements

3)Benadryl-Alpha blocker for allergic reactions

4)ranitidine- Beta blocker for allergic reactions, also good for heartburn and acid reflux after the buffalo chicken MRE.

5)Zyrtec-for those seasonal allergies that Benadryl is too much for.
Ok lets talk about this entry
1-ok
2- your theory that no BM is better than to many is grossly inaccurate. BM is your body's way of removing waste. Stop that process and you will be having issues. But I'm quessing you are talking about the diarrhea problem. Again it's your body's way of removing whatever is upseting your poor tummy. There is a fine line between stopping this natural process and making it worse. Bottom line use caution when taking Imodium.
3- Benadryl is not an alpha blocker. Not even close.
4- claratin is not a beta blocker. Even further away then number 3.
But I can define them for everyone
A1 heart
A2 lungs- dilation/decrease resistance. Think albuterol

B1 heart - constrictor- aka beta blocker. It blocks the receptor site from being activated.
A2 lungs - constrictor

What you are referring to is the H receptor site like some else mentioned.

A quick tip is that Zantac does have properties to help with allergic reactions.

5- seasonal allergies ok cool.

So lets talk about your final 3 entries. It is ill advised to mix claratin and Zyrtec at the same time. If you are alternating on a lets say a monthy basis. That's fine. But not taking both in the same day. So you have effectively duplicated bringing the same medication to treat the same issue. My advice, pick the one that works the best and pack that one soley. Not both.

While we are on the subject I want to throw something else in there. Benadryl does NOT cure allergic reaction. It stops or slows down the immflamation process. So the outward visible signs are masked. Like bumps or redness.

-N
Let's talk about THIS entry from Nickthezombiehunter
1) Okay
2) Good assessment, but chronic diarrhea leading to dehydration = death, so I see the point in bringing it.
3) Benadryl is a competitive H1 antagonist (meaning it doesn't block histamine release, but just blocks the receptor) - blockade of H1 receptors suppresses the swelling, redness, itchiness associated with histamine release. Yes, good drug.
4) Claritin wasn't number 4, Zantac is. Zantac is a competitive H2 antagonist. When combined with an H1 antagonist (i.e. Benadryl), it blocks initial and delayed histamine response. Yes, you're right there, but your explanation of the alpha and beta adrenergic receptors are terrible.
A1 - smooth muscle contraction (think blood vessel constriction): using an A1 blocker lowers blood pressure in certain vessels, by blocking the constriction.
A2 - mixed smooth muscle effects, cardiac relaxation, CNS stuff: do NOT think albuterol. some are sedatives, some for high blood pressure
B1 - heart (increases cardiac output [heart rate and force]: B1 antagonists decrease this, and are used for blood pressure: think metoprolol
B2 - major action is lungs (relaxes smooth muscle in the bronchi leading to bronchodilation, allowing for better breathing): think Albuterol here, which is a B2 agonist and helps asthmatics when their airways are closing. this is also why you don't put asthmatics on beta blockers usually - it counteracts their rescue inhalers if it's nonselective
5) Zyrtec - yes, seasonal allergies, but also the only one of the "non-sedating" H1 blockers that is indicated for use in a rash. Your assessment of taking either Zyrtec or Claritin, but not both at the same time is correct. The assessment of how Benadryl works it correct.

Sorry to come off as a jerk by correcting you, but please don't spout wrong information at people while answering in a rude fashion. You said people don't know about meds, but you're even worse off then them - you THINK you know about them, but you're absolutely clueless. You mentioned elsewhere people getting Actos to make them regular - I highly doubt a drug for treating type 2 diabetes is given to patients to fix constipation, especially with a reporting of only 5% of patients on it getting diarrhea (things that cause diarrhea in normal people fix constipation). Nobody should recommend taking combination OTC products, because they have extra active ingredients the patient may not need or may accidentally have a therapeutic duplication by taking one of the ingredients in it already: which leads to more adverse side effects (though I guess in the PAW, one pill with multiple ingredients is okay but not ideal for treating). If you have any question about my sources - class notes from 2011-2013, Clinical Pharmacology and Lexicomp.

So in short, brush up on your physiology and medications before you reply.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by moab » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:28 pm

ViolentKooter wrote:
Nickthezombiehunter wrote:
Keith B wrote:I learned the benefits of ranitidine from a courteous ER doc many years ago. The five drugs I carry in my backwoods kit are:

1)Ibuprofen-I'm not a big fan of naproxen, this takes away the aches and pains of the trail.

2)Imodium-cause no bowel movement is better than too many bowel movements

3)Benadryl-Alpha blocker for allergic reactions

4)ranitidine- Beta blocker for allergic reactions, also good for heartburn and acid reflux after the buffalo chicken MRE.

5)Zyrtec-for those seasonal allergies that Benadryl is too much for.
Ok lets talk about this entry
1-ok
2- your theory that no BM is better than to many is grossly inaccurate. BM is your body's way of removing waste. Stop that process and you will be having issues. But I'm quessing you are talking about the diarrhea problem. Again it's your body's way of removing whatever is upseting your poor tummy. There is a fine line between stopping this natural process and making it worse. Bottom line use caution when taking Imodium.
3- Benadryl is not an alpha blocker. Not even close.
4- claratin is not a beta blocker. Even further away then number 3.
But I can define them for everyone
A1 heart
A2 lungs- dilation/decrease resistance. Think albuterol

B1 heart - constrictor- aka beta blocker. It blocks the receptor site from being activated.
A2 lungs - constrictor

What you are referring to is the H receptor site like some else mentioned.

A quick tip is that Zantac does have properties to help with allergic reactions.

5- seasonal allergies ok cool.

So lets talk about your final 3 entries. It is ill advised to mix claratin and Zyrtec at the same time. If you are alternating on a lets say a monthy basis. That's fine. But not taking both in the same day. So you have effectively duplicated bringing the same medication to treat the same issue. My advice, pick the one that works the best and pack that one soley. Not both.

While we are on the subject I want to throw something else in there. Benadryl does NOT cure allergic reaction. It stops or slows down the immflamation process. So the outward visible signs are masked. Like bumps or redness.

-N
Let's talk about THIS entry from Nickthezombiehunter
1) Okay
2) Good assessment, but chronic diarrhea leading to dehydration = death, so I see the point in bringing it.
3) Benadryl is a competitive H1 antagonist (meaning it doesn't block histamine release, but just blocks the receptor) - blockade of H1 receptors suppresses the swelling, redness, itchiness associated with histamine release. Yes, good drug.
4) Claritin wasn't number 4, Zantac is. Zantac is a competitive H2 antagonist. When combined with an H1 antagonist (i.e. Benadryl), it blocks initial and delayed histamine response. Yes, you're right there, but your explanation of the alpha and beta adrenergic receptors are terrible.
A1 - smooth muscle contraction (think blood vessel constriction): using an A1 blocker lowers blood pressure in certain vessels, by blocking the constriction.
A2 - mixed smooth muscle effects, cardiac relaxation, CNS stuff: do NOT think albuterol. some are sedatives, some for high blood pressure
B1 - heart (increases cardiac output [heart rate and force]: B1 antagonists decrease this, and are used for blood pressure: think metoprolol
B2 - major action is lungs (relaxes smooth muscle in the bronchi leading to bronchodilation, allowing for better breathing): think Albuterol here, which is a B2 agonist and helps asthmatics when their airways are closing. this is also why you don't put asthmatics on beta blockers usually - it counteracts their rescue inhalers if it's nonselective
5) Zyrtec - yes, seasonal allergies, but also the only one of the "non-sedating" H1 blockers that is indicated for use in a rash. Your assessment of taking either Zyrtec or Claritin, but not both at the same time is correct. The assessment of how Benadryl works it correct.

Sorry to come off as a jerk by correcting you, but please don't spout wrong information at people while answering in a rude fashion. You said people don't know about meds, but you're even worse off then them - you THINK you know about them, but you're absolutely clueless. You mentioned elsewhere people getting Actos to make them regular - I highly doubt a drug for treating type 2 diabetes is given to patients to fix constipation, especially with a reporting of only 5% of patients on it getting diarrhea (things that cause diarrhea in normal people fix constipation). Nobody should recommend taking combination OTC products, because they have extra active ingredients the patient may not need or may accidentally have a therapeutic duplication by taking one of the ingredients in it already: which leads to more adverse side effects (though I guess in the PAW, one pill with multiple ingredients is okay but not ideal for treating). If you have any question about my sources - class notes from 2011-2013, Clinical Pharmacology and Lexicomp.

So in short, brush up on your physiology and medications before you reply.
Someone with ACTUAL knowledge. And sources to prove it. If you haven't already - I'd be very interested in your list.
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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by procyon » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:52 pm

Ok, here is my list that goes around in the FAKs in the cars and truck.
(There are other meds, but these get restocked the most.)

1. Ibuprofen. Good for aches, pain, fever, and for my wife and daughters at least once a month.
2. Tylenol. My kids and I tend to spike nasty temps. Alternating with the ibup. tends to keep them from getting too uncomfortable.
3. Benadryl. For all the wonderful allergic/itchy/watery/whatever that always happens when out in nature.
4. Neosporin (or whatever tube of atb lotion managed to get shuffled in). For my inevitable lapses of judgement, or those the boys commit.
5. Lidocaine (in some form). Ever tried living with a small kid that got nailed by a wasp they didn't see. Or prying a nasty splinter out of a screaming 3 y/o. And I don't mind not flinching when I pull the thorns/splinters/etc out of me either.

Others are in the big kits, but these tend to get abused most and get included in the older kids FAKs.

Also in the non meds -
Hard candy mints. Good for mild cough and cranky kids who want something to eat. Also not to worried about the older kids abusing them.
Water. If you didn't bring any, good luck getting a kid to choke down the pills they need (or me, I'm horrible with pills...). And for flushing/cleaning/whatever before addressing assorted boo-boos.
Aloe vera salve (or some burn salve) for the inevitable time someone gets ahold of something in the camp fire, bumped with a hot chainsaw, brushes against an exposed exhaust pipe, etc.

And to touch on some things discussed earlier.

Zantac and Benadryl combo seems to be the new standard where I work for addressing poison ivy(et al) without resorting to steroids.

Adding atb to a stomach issue isn't always a great idea, depending on the problem. Hydration is far better.
If it's salmonella, atb treatment only tends to prolong the problem. Also, most atb tend to wipe out your natural intestinal flora exacerbating dirahea if you don't know exactly what bug you are trying to kill.

Otherwise, (ignoring minor recurring snarkiness) this is a real neat thread.
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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by ViolentKooter » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:06 am

I wasn't going to play this game, simply because it's too hard to pick only 5... but since moab asked, here's my list and reasons why...
Keep in mind - I am a 26 year old guy, with no chronic illness, and only a mild allergy to hay - which if I am around it for a couple hours and don't rub it in my face, I don't need to take any meds or inhaler. I have mild shoulder problems.. That said, if I could pick have a prescription for all these medications needing it...
1) Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) - most people picked this with good reason. It's an antihistamine, and a great drug - with multiple uses. Allergies (or symptoms associated with allergies), bug bites, motion sickness, vertigo, make yourself sleep. Yeah your sleep won't be as good as natural sleep... but some sleep > no sleep.
2) A strong corticosteroid - I choose Dexamethasone. Ridiculously effective anti-inflammatory, asthma symptoms (which I may get if I decide to roll around in hay). Being able to breathe, and move limbs is kind of important in a ZPAW scenario.
3) A strong opioid/acetaminophen combo - Oxycodone+Acetaminophen. Pain relief and cough suppressant (opioid), and fever/headache from APAP. Most people's argument against this is constipation - but if you are only taking it when you need it, this constipation doesn't happen. Plus my "regular" BM is 3 times daily - so it wouldn't hurt to only go once a day. I have a relatively high threshold for pain, walking home on an ankle that required surgery once I made it to a hospital - so using this would have to require something outrageously painful.
4) Antidiarrheal - Loperamide (Imodium) Chronic diarrhea leads to dehydration, and that can lead to death. Dose adjustment is easy to prevent constipation. Main argument against this is not to use this in infectious diarrhea, due to toxic megacolon and the like. However, since my next choice is an antibiotic... it's okay. If my next choice WASN'T an antibiotic, it would still be okay, since dying from dehydration versus dying from not ridding your body of infectious disease - picking your way to go, I guess.
5) Broad spectrum antibiotic - this was a toughy for me. I was trying to factor in skin/soft tissue infections, respiratory, things from foul water, cholera, Lyme disease (though I would like to think I'd have a functioning water filtration system and wouldn't be too lazy to check for ticks). Bactrim, Augmentin, Levaquin, and Zithromax were all in the running. After much consulting with Clinical Pharmacology, the 2012 Sanford Guide to Antimicrobial Therapy, and Lexicomp - I opted for Levofloxacin (Levaquin). A drug in the same class covers cholera (Cipro), so this should too. It also has excellent coverage of respiratory illnesses, skin/soft tissue infections, some GI coverage, and Shigella. Lost Lyme Disease coverage here (Azithromycin and Augmentin), and lost a little bit of GI coverage (Bactrim has tons of GI coverage), but I think it was worth it.

If it was entirely OTC, once I got done pouting, I'd pick...
1) Diphenhydramine (Benadryl), because see above.
2) Ibuprofen (Motrin), since it's an anti inflammatory it’s helpful for some pain, headache, fever.
3) Loperamide (Imodium), because see above.
4) Chlorhexidine Gluconate (Hibiclens), because it’s an OTC antiseptic. I say this assuming people aren’t taking isopropyl with them – and I hate iodine. If diluted a lot, could be used as mouthwash in a pinch (though I’d really wait for an end of the world scenario to do this).
5) One of the various azole antifungals (Monistat, Lotrimin, etc). Since wounds are being treated with #4, you can still get some fungal infections in your skin-on-skin areas. So this can be used for “diaper rash”, your standard tinea infections (Athlete’s foot and such), and if choosing Monistat – feminine candidiasis. Yes, Monistat is used for female issues, but I know people who apply it topically to their horses and who have used it for athlete’s foot because they were too lazy to go to the store to buy something else. If the inside of your shoes get stinky, antifungals are also in the “odor eating” products for shoes.
I could see swapping #4 with Iodine, so you can also treat water with it – but again, I hate iodine. I could also understand using triple abx ointment too, but if I get some sort of scrape/cut and I treat with Hibiclens, I shouldn’t need triple abx.

Sorry for the long post.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by moab » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:27 pm

ViolentKooter wrote:I wasn't going to play this game, simply because it's too hard to pick only 5... but since moab asked, here's my list and reasons why...
Keep in mind - I am a 26 year old guy, with no chronic illness, and only a mild allergy to hay - which if I am around it for a couple hours and don't rub it in my face, I don't need to take any meds or inhaler. I have mild shoulder problems.. That said, if I could pick have a prescription for all these medications needing it...
1) Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) - most people picked this with good reason. It's an antihistamine, and a great drug - with multiple uses. Allergies (or symptoms associated with allergies), bug bites, motion sickness, vertigo, make yourself sleep. Yeah your sleep won't be as good as natural sleep... but some sleep > no sleep.
2) A strong corticosteroid - I choose Dexamethasone. Ridiculously effective anti-inflammatory, asthma symptoms (which I may get if I decide to roll around in hay). Being able to breathe, and move limbs is kind of important in a ZPAW scenario.
3) A strong opioid/acetaminophen combo - Oxycodone+Acetaminophen. Pain relief and cough suppressant (opioid), and fever/headache from APAP. Most people's argument against this is constipation - but if you are only taking it when you need it, this constipation doesn't happen. Plus my "regular" BM is 3 times daily - so it wouldn't hurt to only go once a day. I have a relatively high threshold for pain, walking home on an ankle that required surgery once I made it to a hospital - so using this would have to require something outrageously painful.
4) Antidiarrheal - Loperamide (Imodium) Chronic diarrhea leads to dehydration, and that can lead to death. Dose adjustment is easy to prevent constipation. Main argument against this is not to use this in infectious diarrhea, due to toxic megacolon and the like. However, since my next choice is an antibiotic... it's okay. If my next choice WASN'T an antibiotic, it would still be okay, since dying from dehydration versus dying from not ridding your body of infectious disease - picking your way to go, I guess.
5) Broad spectrum antibiotic - this was a toughy for me. I was trying to factor in skin/soft tissue infections, respiratory, things from foul water, cholera, Lyme disease (though I would like to think I'd have a functioning water filtration system and wouldn't be too lazy to check for ticks). Bactrim, Augmentin, Levaquin, and Zithromax were all in the running. After much consulting with Clinical Pharmacology, the 2012 Sanford Guide to Antimicrobial Therapy, and Lexicomp - I opted for Levofloxacin (Levaquin). A drug in the same class covers cholera (Cipro), so this should too. It also has excellent coverage of respiratory illnesses, skin/soft tissue infections, some GI coverage, and Shigella. Lost Lyme Disease coverage here (Azithromycin and Augmentin), and lost a little bit of GI coverage (Bactrim has tons of GI coverage), but I think it was worth it.

If it was entirely OTC, once I got done pouting, I'd pick...
1) Diphenhydramine (Benadryl), because see above.
2) Ibuprofen (Motrin), since it's an anti inflammatory it’s helpful for some pain, headache, fever.
3) Loperamide (Imodium), because see above.
4) Chlorhexidine Gluconate (Hibiclens), because it’s an OTC antiseptic. I say this assuming people aren’t taking isopropyl with them – and I hate iodine. If diluted a lot, could be used as mouthwash in a pinch (though I’d really wait for an end of the world scenario to do this).
5) One of the various azole antifungals (Monistat, Lotrimin, etc). Since wounds are being treated with #4, you can still get some fungal infections in your skin-on-skin areas. So this can be used for “diaper rash”, your standard tinea infections (Athlete’s foot and such), and if choosing Monistat – feminine candidiasis. Yes, Monistat is used for female issues, but I know people who apply it topically to their horses and who have used it for athlete’s foot because they were too lazy to go to the store to buy something else. If the inside of your shoes get stinky, antifungals are also in the “odor eating” products for shoes.
I could see swapping #4 with Iodine, so you can also treat water with it – but again, I hate iodine. I could also understand using triple abx ointment too, but if I get some sort of scrape/cut and I treat with Hibiclens, I shouldn’t need triple abx.

Sorry for the long post.
Interesting. Your list is almost exactly what I have packed in my INCH bag. With the exception of the antibotic (I have flagyl(sp?) only because it was a left over prescription I have) and no "strong corticosteroid". I think I know what you mean by "strong corticosteroid". But what are some name brands and is this prescription?

My list is below. I carry a lot of each for use and trade in my INCH bag. In my normal backpacking bag I carry normal amounts:

Benadryl
Imodium
Lidocaine cream (Although I'd probably trade this for triple antibiotic if I was limited to 5)
Norco (left over perscriptions)
Flagyl (left over perscription)

In addition I carry some 800mg Ibuprofen (another left over prescription for use and trade.). And various topical medications i.e. - triple antibiotic, anti fungal/cortisone (another prescription I actually use.) etc.
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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by ViolentKooter » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:37 pm

Sorry, I occasionally flop pharmacy jargon all over the place, and sometimes super oversimplify for people. The brand name for dexamethasone is Decadron. More common oral corticosteroids are prednisone, prednisolone (Orapred), and methylprednisolone (Medrol Dose Pack). NSAID stands for Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug... these are the "steroids" that NSAIDs aren't.

Your list isn't bad by any means moab, I only have the OTC stuff from both of my Pick 5's: I doubt a doctor will be willing to write me a script for a hardcore antibiotic, painkillers and a steroid because "in case of zombies". I'm more likely to get a prescription to see a therapist :shock: . Metronidazole (Flagyl) was also in the running, because of awesome GI tract coverage - but I liked the broader coverage from Levaquin. In my pack, I carry all the OTC's I listed minus the antifungal cream: but also triple abx ointment, isopropyl pads, and a few other topicals.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by CrossCut » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:25 am

ViolentKooter wrote: Metronidazole (Flagyl) was also in the running, because of awesome GI tract coverage - but I liked the broader coverage from Levaquin.
If you could only have one antibiotic then Flagyl is probably a poor choice. If you can have two, then Flagyl or Clindamycin makes a great second choice for the anaerobic/protozoa coverage IMO.

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Pick 6 meds...

Post by Jamie » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:20 am

Benadryl tongue tabs
Advil gel caps
Tylenol gel caps
Claritin-D tabs
Pepto-Bismol chew-tabs
Neosporin to go spray

Yeah, that's 6, but I can fit enough of the first four for a week in a single scrip-bottle, so I'm ok going over.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by ViolentKooter » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:29 am

CrossCut wrote:
ViolentKooter wrote: Metronidazole (Flagyl) was also in the running, because of awesome GI tract coverage - but I liked the broader coverage from Levaquin.
If you could only have one antibiotic then Flagyl is probably a poor choice. If you can have two, then Flagyl or Clindamycin makes a great second choice for the anaerobic/protozoa coverage IMO.
Well, right. Once I reviewed my bugs n drugs, that's why I opted for Levofloxacin over Flagyl. But having flagyl in a bag beats the abx in my current bag - nothing. Most practitioners won't give abx scripts out to keep in a bag for, just in case.
Also, as awesome of a drug as Clinda is, I can't remember which of the "mycins" we learned about being toxic when it expires - so I kept myself from those. It was either clinda or erythro.

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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by moab » Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:04 pm

CrossCut wrote:
ViolentKooter wrote: Metronidazole (Flagyl) was also in the running, because of awesome GI tract coverage - but I liked the broader coverage from Levaquin.
If you could only have one antibiotic then Flagyl is probably a poor choice. If you can have two, then Flagyl or Clindamycin makes a great second choice for the anaerobic/protozoa coverage IMO.
I'm allergic to Clindamycin. And the flagyl is in there simply because I had it left over from a trip to Mexico. What would be a good alternative to Clindamycin?
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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by CrossCut » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:17 pm

ViolentKooter wrote: Well, right. Once I reviewed my bugs n drugs, that's why I opted for Levofloxacin over Flagyl. But having flagyl in a bag beats the abx in my current bag - nothing. Most practitioners won't give abx scripts out to keep in a bag for, just in case.
Also, as awesome of a drug as Clinda is, I can't remember which of the "mycins" we learned about being toxic when it expires - so I kept myself from those. It was either clinda or erythro.
Levofloxacin, for adults, is as fine a first choice as any I'd think. Azithromycin, Doxycycline, or Augmentin too - or at least those would be my top 4, and Flagyl making 5. Are you thinking of tetracycline that turns toxic? That's pretty much debunked now although a common old wives tale in survival communities, hopefully I'll get the FDA response on the SLEP program soon and it'll include some details. Been 3 weeks since I sent it.
moab wrote: I'm allergic to Clindamycin. And the flagyl is in there simply because I had it left over from a trip to Mexico. What would be a good alternative to Clindamycin?
I'd add any (or all) of the 4 listed above. Aquatic Pharmacy carries them all. Add Fluconazole and Mebendazole, and you'll be able to treat just about any (non-viral) infection you'll ever see.

okiebill
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Re: Pick 5 meds...

Post by okiebill » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:20 pm

I'm sure there are some really exotic Chemo type drugs that can go toxic ( or are toxic by nature) past expiration but I can't think of a drug (and certainly none that are listed here) that will cause you any harm past their expiration dates...

" Pyschopharmacology Today advises that the expiration on a drug is a requirement of a law passed in 1979 where drug manufacturers are required to post an expiration date on their products. This way, the manufacturer can ensure the date at which he can guarantee the full efficiency and safety of the drug. No information on the safety of taking expired drugs has been published. Toxicity due to indigestion, injection, or topical application of drug formulas after their expiration date has not been reported. However, on one occasion it has been reported that the use of degraded tetracycline caused renal tubular damage in a patient. This form of medicine has since been removed from the market. A study conducted by the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) requested by the military occurred due to the fact that the military faces tossing out and replacing a large expensive pile of drugs every few years. The study found that 90% of more than 100 different prescription and non-prescription drugs were still safe and effective to use even 15 years after the date of expiration."

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