Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Discussions of the best (or worst) equipment to have on hand for use in the event of an injury during an emergency.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Post Reply
CrossCut
ZS Member
ZS Member
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:32 am

Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Post by CrossCut » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:43 am

1) Does the addition of Probenecid with oral penicillins/cephalosporins/quinolones have any use in treating infections in a PAW? At a dime a dose for Probenecid (http://www.alldaychemist.com/bencid.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), is this a good method to either reduce the antibiotic dosage to achieve the same effect, or to use it in conjunction with the recommended antibiotic dosage to treat more serious infections when IV/IM antibiotics aren't available?

2) Mild pen allergic reaction (rash) as a child in 1970 or so. Haven't had a penicillin or a cephalosporin since. I've read many kids were misdiagnosed as pen allergic back then. I'd like to determine if I am truly pen allergic or not, and even if so, then am I also allergic to cephalosporins as well. Any thoughts on taking a small (subclinical?) dose of amoxicillin or cephalexin (while sitting in my vehicle in an ED parking lot) as a test? Or, am I just sensitizing myself to have an even worse reaction later assuming I have another mild reaction?

Das Sheep
* * * *
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 pm

Re: Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Post by Das Sheep » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:05 am

When it comes to the potential of post apocolyptic fish health care, I trust the anti-biotics from Vetdepot.

http://www.vetdepot.com/fish-mox-amoxic ... sules.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.vetdepot.com/fish-mox-forte- ... sules.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the 100 pill form its 17cents for 250mg pills and 29cents for 500mg pills for amoxicillin.


http://www.vetdepot.com/antibiotics.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


None of the fish antibiotics, for the most part, are more than .40 cents a pill. I think, as a non doctor person, that I would want antibiotics that are known to be effective.

I stock 4 different kinds myself, and have a nice print out of what each one treats and the suggested dosage. Its not a perfect guide, but its better than nothing.

UTI's are a big issue for some women, and if you have women in your group that get them you might see which antibiotic they need for them and stock up on that as well. If the Lady-friend aint happy, no one is happy.

IANMCDEVITT
* * * *
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:13 pm

Re: Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Post by IANMCDEVITT » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:05 pm

.....or be overseas and have IV zithromax, streptomycin, procaine injection, gentamycin, chloremphenical, and ceftriaxone. All either directly IM or IV.......and all got for about three or four bucks. Know what i use the most though on my own open cuts after cleaning? Tea Tree Oil.

dallas
* * *
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Gulf Coast

Re: Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Post by dallas » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:25 pm

IANMCDEVITT wrote: Tea Tree Oil.
I use it a lot myself. That is some good stuff.

User avatar
Veritas
* * * *
Posts: 942
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:21 am

Re: Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Post by Veritas » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:37 am

1. I would say no to the Probenecid theory, it sounds unreliable and I have literally never heard of it used in modern times for intentionally increasing plasma concentrations of antibiotics. I doubt it is a reliable or predictable method of dosing either.

2. The cross reactivity between pcn and cephalosporins is low. That said, you are right, most people who think they are pcn allergic are not. Many viral infections (especially mono) cause a rash when inappropriately treated with pcn, or some other antibiotics, which leads many people to assume they have an allergy. Probably not worth the risk of a tester dose on yourself, that's never a good idea. You won't sensitize yourself, it's just not a good idea if you think you have an allergy. You can get tested at a physician's office much easier.

There's no reason to treat sore throats in the PAW (you probably won't live long enough to get rheumatic fever, and you probably have a virus anyway), or coughs (bronchitis is viral or Pertussis most of the time), or sinusitis (viral or allergic, not often bacterial). There is no role for prophylactic antibiotics (no matter what the military thinks, it's the PAW not Afghanistan). The only reason I would treat something might be diarrhea or a deep wound infection. We way overtreat as it is, and in the PAW your resources would be so spare you would be forced into responsible antibiotic use. With that said, I'm not sure there is a role for pcn anymore. It's good for oral flora, and that's about it, everything else is pretty much resistant. A better drug would be doxycycline. Add cipro for diarrhea.

And don't use any of it unless it's the end of the world. Antibiotics are some of the least safe drugs out there, and yet they are prescribed with reckless abandon.
Veritas liberabit vos

FAK | IFAK || BOB | GHB

dallas
* * *
Posts: 444
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:36 pm
Location: Gulf Coast

Re: Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Post by dallas » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:11 am

Veritas wrote:1. I would say no to the Probenecid theory, it sounds unreliable and I have literally never heard of it used in modern times for intentionally increasing plasma concentrations of antibiotics. I doubt it is a reliable or predictable method of dosing either.

2. The cross reactivity between pcn and cephalosporins is low. That said, you are right, most people who think they are pcn allergic are not. Many viral infections (especially mono) cause a rash when inappropriately treated with pcn, or some other antibiotics, which leads many people to assume they have an allergy. Probably not worth the risk of a tester dose on yourself, that's never a good idea. You won't sensitize yourself, it's just not a good idea if you think you have an allergy. You can get tested at a physician's office much easier.

There's no reason to treat sore throats in the PAW (you probably won't live long enough to get rheumatic fever, and you probably have a virus anyway), or coughs (bronchitis is viral or Pertussis most of the time), or sinusitis (viral or allergic, not often bacterial). There is no role for prophylactic antibiotics (no matter what the military thinks, it's the PAW not Afghanistan). The only reason I would treat something might be diarrhea or a deep wound infection. We way overtreat as it is, and in the PAW your resources would be so spare you would be forced into responsible antibiotic use. With that said, I'm not sure there is a role for pcn anymore. It's good for oral flora, and that's about it, everything else is pretty much resistant. A better drug would be doxycycline. Add cipro for diarrhea.

And don't use any of it unless it's the end of the world. Antibiotics are some of the least safe drugs out there, and yet they are prescribed with reckless abandon.
Very good advise.

medic photog
* * *
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:47 pm
Location: PA
Contact:

Re: Two questions on antibiotic use in a PAW

Post by medic photog » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:19 pm

dallas wrote:
IANMCDEVITT wrote: Tea Tree Oil.
I use it a lot myself. That is some good stuff.
Same here, always have some around. I think we use way too many antibiotics as it is and will use even more in a dirty nasty PAW just because it's "dirty and nasty".

Post Reply

Return to “First Aid”