Good radios for SHTF?

[moab]

I have these radios for my company. We use them for surveillance. (I own a private investigation firm.) Other than the fact that I can't charge them in my BOB unless I buy a $200 or $300 solar charger. Are these any good? Any good in a BOB or INCH if I could afford the solar charger? Pluses and minuses? I like them because they are scrambled. And have 100 channels. 5w. Although I am not a radio guy. More of a scanner guy. Are these any good considering other options? I think they are Kenwood knock offs. Pretty good for the price. But please give me your honest opinions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Puxing-PX-777-U ... 19cdae7f04



Px-777 UHF 400-470Mhz

1. UHF
2. 400Mhz-470Mhz
3.UHF 4W output power
4.128 memory channels
5.Built-in 50 CTCSS and 104 DCS
6.Wide (25kHz) and Narrow(12.5kHz) channel spacing programmable in separate channels
7.Come with 1200mAh Li-ion battery
8.Input Frequency directly by keypad
9.VOX built-in
10.Frequency Scan & CTCSS Scan
11.Three different scan type: TO/CO/SE
12.Three color LCD backlight display
13.Sound Alarm
14.Programmable by PC software
16.Priority Scan Function
17.Adjust power High/Low
18.Switching between Channel/VFO
19.Display Channel+ Frequency mode.
20.Adjust squelch level (0-9)
21.Busy channel lockout
22.Keypad lock
23.Reverse Frequency Function
24.Channel step 5k,10k,6.25k,12.5k,25k
25.Program alphanumeric channels name
26.Self-program

TECHNICAL:
Frequency Range 136―174MHz，245-246MHz，400—470MHz
Working Temperate －20℃―＋50℃
Operating Voltage DC 7.2V
Operate Mode Simplex or Semi-duplex
Dimension 100mm×55mm×32mm (Not included Antenna)
Weight 220g (Including battery)
Antenna impedance 50Ω

Transmitter
Frequency Stability ±2.5PPM
Output Power ≦5W
Max Frequency Deviation ≦5KHz
Audio Distortion ≦3%
Modulation Character +3dB—-3dB
Adjacent Channel Power ≥65dB
Spurious Radiation ≤7.5UW(-36db for CE)
Occupied Bandwidth ≤16KHz

Receiver
RF Sensitivity ＜0.2UV(12DB SINAD)
Audio Distortion ≦3%
Audio Response +2dB—-10dB
Adjacent Channel Selectivity ≥60dB
Intermodulation Rejection ≥60dB
Blocking ≥80dB

[gary in ohio]

I think if you read through some of the past articles in this form you will seen the same threads over and over again. First the radio. Its a low cost Chinese radio. Not a bad radio for what it is, but is not as rugged as other commercial radios. As for good/bad for SHTF.... GOOD for what? What is your communications plans? Who do you need to talk to? How far do you need to talk? How many people need to talk. Its a fine radio if your distance requirements are less than 2 miles, but a junk radio if you need to talk further. Its a single band radio. There is NO frequency you can legally use this radio on that doesnt require a license.
Its capable GMRS, business band and ham bands but all need a license. Defined what your communications needs are then find the radio that fits that need.

[zommoz10]

As gary said, it depends on how do you plan to use the radios.

When SHTF, some people want to just talk to the outside world- e.g. distant lands.... others just want to talk to people within a few blocks. Radios like the one you have are largely dead weight unless you will need them to talk to others in your group and if it takes a solar charger to charge them then that's what it's going to take. The alternative is AA batteries, which would give you 1-2 days of use and then they'd die then you'll have radios you can't use because there's nowhere to buy new batteries. FWIW, I think a small solar powered 12v battery charger would be worthwhile for other things, not just this.

[Tater Raider]

Identifying the need is key and how I'm growing my com plan.

1. The 4x4 club I want to join requires a CB, so that's first.
2. Coms with my brother in the New Madrid Fault Zone is next (525 mile range - see 6m v. 10m thread for that discussion and an illustration of how ignorant I am).
3. Base radios are next on list.
4. Quality radios in the bands I use most to finalize.

Something like the radio you have is not in my plans because the need is not there for me.

It's a lot like I say on BOV's, what is perfect for one person is the worst possible solution for another. Get something that suits your AO's terrain, anticipated needs, group size, etc. and you might not get it 100% dead on in the first attempt but you will be a lot closer than if you try a one-size-fits-none approach for ultimate BOC.

[KJ4VOV]

And I'll chime in with...

The only thing "scrambled" on those radios is the claim that they're scrambled.

[moab]

Good to know they aren't really scrambled. We practice radio security anyway. But still...

I should have mentioned my BO plan. My apologies. My needs are only to communicate with my group while traveling on foot. And these radios seem a large step up from an FRS or GMRS radio.

Do they make UHF radios in 5w that run on AA batteries? A solar charger to charge AA's is less than a $100. And I plan to carry one for all my other AA needs. It's only these radios that would require a much more expensive one.

Thank you so much for the critiques. I sincerely appreciate it.

[Tater Raider]

Given that, I'd look at 2m handhelds. Reasoning: that allows me to participate in the local skywarn network, providing justification outside of preps for getting one as well as an excuse to use it often. As far as which is better than another, I leave that to experts here but also recommend finding review sites like [url]eham.net[/url] (not an endorsement) and the like.

That exhausts what passes for my knowledge on the subject.

[moab]

I think I used the Eham reviews when I bought those radios. We couldn't afford (nor did we need) $200 handhelds. So it was a nice option. They seem to be just as rugged as the Kenwood handhelds they are a copy of. I also have one of my smaller scanners I am considering as part of my INCH bag. I have several and have been into that for years. So I would at least be able to monitor all of the emergency and ham freqs.

I just wish I could find similar 5w handhelds that run off AA's. That would solve a lot of charging issues. Otherwise I have to pack a larger solar charger (and pay for it) and carry the charging cradle and an inverter.

On another note. Does anybody know the lifespan of the lithium ion batteries in these? I let them sit for a couple years. And they all died. I didn't think LI would do that. Only nicad.

[zommoz10]

Good to know they aren't really scrambled. We practice radio security anyway. But still...

I should have mentioned my BO plan. My apologies. My needs are only to communicate with my group while traveling on foot. And these radios seem a large step up from an FRS or GMRS radio.

Then something like this should meet your needs provided you have a way to power them. You may be able to use these on GMRS frequencies if these are type accepted for GMRS. You can find out at the FCC website by searching the FCC ID number on the label that should be on these. If there is no label and they aren't certified for anything then technically you can't use them on anything but the ham band. And for that, each person in your group will need to get their ham license to operate lawfully.

Do they make UHF radios in 5w that run on AA batteries? A solar charger to charge AA's is less than a $100. And I plan to carry one for all my other AA needs. It's only these radios that would require a much more expensive one.

The portables that operate on higher power (4/5 watts) don't normally operate on AA's out of the box but SOME of them can be used with a AA battery tray sold as an optional accessory. Keep in mind, they do use about 6-9 cells so charging that many would be a huge pain in the ass. And each of those battery trays costs about $80-100.
Also they're meant to be used with alkaline batteries. Using them with rechargables may not provide the necessary amps to use them or at least to use them with any more output than a consumer radio that has lower output to begin with.

On another note. Does anybody know the lifespan of the lithium ion batteries in these? I let them sit for a couple years. And they all died. I didn't think LI would do that. Only nicad.

Lion batteries may not have the same level of memory syndrome as nicads but that doesn't mean they'll hold a charge indefinitely. They will lose their charge after time and it's really best if you don't let that happen.

I just wish I could find similar 5w handhelds that run off AA's. That would solve a lot of charging issues. Otherwise I have to pack a larger solar charger (and pay for it) and carry the charging cradle and an inverter.

If it were me, and it was vital to have these running, and I had a way to carry it, and I don't mean to schlep it in a back pack, I would use solar panels in conjunction with a 12v battery or two. That way you can charge when convenient and store the charge for later. The reality is, when the lights go out, we're all going to have to conserve our use of everything. That means not using the radios unless it's absolutely essential. At least having 12v power will be useful for other things, not just charging AA batteries or something like that.

[moab]

Well I am schlepping these things in a backpack. So I guess it's going to come down to whether or not I can afford the larger laptop type solar panels. Someone should make a "survival" type radio like these that run off of AA's. Not 5w obviously. But maybe even if it ran at 2 or 3w. And could use rechargable AA's. You'd think that would be a good use in search and rescue. But what do I know? Not much. LOL!

I know this was just brought up before. But what is the next step down in something that would run AA's? I assume GMRS or FRS. And I know everyone agreed that they were a POS. But say your on foot and just need to communicate with your team. What's the next best thing that runs AA's?

[gary in ohio]

In the call me in the woods situation your talking 4w vs 5watts or even 2w vs 4watts. YOu will never see a difference. Most of the radio state power output with a fix power supply and not the battery...

I would also note that the PX-777 UHF radio is NOT legal in the US. It has no FCC certification (at least none I have seen in the last few months. The PX-777 VHF radio does, but the UHF does not... WIth that knowledge these radio are ONLY legal on the ham bands.... Can you provide the FCC ID on it. Would love to hear the UHF is certified. SHould be on the radio typically behind the battery.

[moab]

No FCC ID. Although I know we received a license from the place we bought them from. And continue to do so as far as I know. It was an issue when we bought these (many years ago) as I wanted to make sure we were doing everything legally. But someone else in my company handles this. We rarely use the radios though. Like I said, they sat for two or three years and no one used them. So the batteries died. I gave away all of them but two. We bought these locally. Not on ebay.

[moab]

"In the call me in the woods situation your talking 4w vs 5watts or even 2w vs 4watts. YOu will never see a difference. Most of the radio state power output with a fix power supply and not the battery..."

So there isn't a licensed two way that operates on the GMRS or FRS band that is higher than .5 watt? I mean I assume these have to be better than a .5 watt FRS radio(?).

[KJ4VOV]

And each of those battery trays costs about $80-100.

What radios are you thinking of that have alkaline trays priced that high??

I don't think I've ever seen one that lists for more than about $40, and most sell in the $20 range.

[zommoz10]

Although I know we received a license from the place we bought them from.

The dealer shouldn't be the one issuing licenses, it should be from the FCC. If it's a US-based dealer, they could get in trouble for selling those radios. Nevermind the kind of trouble if they're making their own licenses.
Now is it a real FCC license or just some certificate the dealer printed up themselves? You can find out by doing a search for your license here...
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... vanced.jsp
Make sure "expired", "terminated", canceled etc is checked.

"In the call me in the woods situation your talking 4w vs 5watts or even 2w vs 4watts. YOu will never see a difference. Most of the radio state power output with a fix power supply and not the battery..."

So there isn't a licensed two way that operates on the GMRS or FRS band that is higher than .5 watt? I mean I assume these have to be better than a .5 watt FRS radio(?).

Do a search for Icom F4001

And each of those battery trays costs about $80-100.

What radios are you thinking of that have alkaline trays priced that high??

I don't think I've ever seen one that lists for more than about $40, and most sell in the $20 range.

I'm not talking about ham or consumer gear but I confess it's been a while since I shopped for one.
The Icom F4001 I mentioned above, I just noticed has a small (6 cell) tray that's retailing online for $25. These newer lower end radios are a better value and meet the needs of a lot of people. I guess people no longer have to choose from expensive business or public safety radios for their GMRS needs.

[bigmattdaddywack]

subbed

[moab]

Although I know we received a license from the place we bought them from.

The dealer shouldn't be the one issuing licenses, it should be from the FCC. If it's a US-based dealer, they could get in trouble for selling those radios. Nevermind the kind of trouble if they're making their own licenses.
Now is it a real FCC license or just some certificate the dealer printed up themselves? You can find out by doing a search for your license here...
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSear ... vanced.jsp
Make sure "expired", "terminated", canceled etc is checked.

"In the call me in the woods situation your talking 4w vs 5watts or even 2w vs 4watts. YOu will never see a difference. Most of the radio state power output with a fix power supply and not the battery..."

So there isn't a licensed two way that operates on the GMRS or FRS band that is higher than .5 watt? I mean I assume these have to be better than a .5 watt FRS radio(?).

Do a search for Icom F4001

And each of those battery trays costs about $80-100.

What radios are you thinking of that have alkaline trays priced that high??

I don't think I've ever seen one that lists for more than about $40, and most sell in the $20 range.

I'm not talking about ham or consumer gear but I confess it's been a while since I shopped for one.
The Icom F4001 I mentioned above, I just noticed has a small (6 cell) tray that's retailing online for $25. These newer lower end radios are a better value and meet the needs of a lot of people. I guess people no longer have to choose from expensive business or public safety radios for their GMRS needs.

I didn't mean to say I knew it came from the place we bought it from. Just that they made sure we had the proper licenses and/or helped us get them licensed. I know I personally made it an issue with my operations manager to get that sorted out. Although I very seriously doubt if they are still licensed. As we have not used them in years. If at all. We just don't get that many situations where a cell phone doesn't work better.

If they're not licensed how do we go about getting them licensed and how much is it? Is it yearly? If I end up getting the more expensive solar charger I would like to possibly add these to my INCH bag.

What is the battery charger you guys are talking about? Something that charges the handheld or something?

[rakkFO]

As far as power I personally use powerfilm for charging small electronics. They do make a AA charger (http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-USB-AA- ... B001RMBHMK) I have 2 of the 5W versions (http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-F15-300 ... 416&sr=8-6) and I made my own cables that they sell for linking them for more power and to the power poles I use for all my radios and electrical connectors. You can get there 2 pin connector on line. At 59.99 right now it is less than I paid at the $99 so I may order another one for the car! I have never use the AA charger one but I can tell you that the 5W version is a good product.

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/foldable- ... argers.php

[moab]

As far as power I personally use powerfilm for charging small electronics. They do make a AA charger (http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-USB-AA- ... B001RMBHMK) I have 2 of the 5W versions (http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-F15-300 ... 416&sr=8-6) and I made my own cables that they sell for linking them for more power and to the power poles I use for all my radios and electrical connectors. You can get there 2 pin connector on line. At 59.99 right now it is less than I paid at the $99 so I may order another one for the car! I have never use the AA charger one but I can tell you that the 5W version is a good product.

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/foldable- ... argers.php

But then don't you also have to carry an inverter? And your charging cradle and ac adapter? Will one panel charge your handhelds or do you have to use two?

I'm thinking maybe (in an INCH scenario) you bring extra charged batteries (only use the radios in an emergency), an inverter, and hope to leach off an abandoned car battery to recharge. But then again you've already taken everything you need to use the solar charger. And I need it to charge batteries for my emergency radio etc. etc. So I need the solar panel anyway. So I guess you might as well do as you lay out above.

AA run FRS radios are looking more and more attractive to me all the time. For what I need. Just comm between walking members of a group. Not secure. But I guess nothing is(?). I know everyone hates FRS/GMRS radios on here. But is there any good site that reviews them?

[KJ4VOV]

I know everyone hates FRS/GMRS radios on here.

I wouldn't say everyone "hates" them, they're just not the best choice for most scenarios. However, in your case they sound like they'd suit your purpose very well, depending upon how spread out your group gets.

[rakkFO]

But then don't you also have to carry an inverter? And your charging cradle and ac adapter? Will one panel charge your handhelds or do you have to use two?

I'm thinking maybe (in an INCH scenario) you bring extra charged batteries (only use the radios in an emergency), an inverter, and hope to leach off an abandoned car battery to recharge. But then again you've already taken everything you need to use the solar charger. And I need it to charge batteries for my emergency radio etc. etc. So I need the solar panel anyway. So I guess you might as well do as you lay out above.

AA run FRS radios are looking more and more attractive to me all the time. For what I need. Just comm between walking members of a group. Not secure. But I guess nothing is(?). I know everyone hates FRS/GMRS radios on here. But is there any good site that reviews them?

I do not use an inverter, the applications I use run off a 12V input as well as 110V input. Just as you can charge say your phone off the car socket (12V) I buy items I can use a cigar lighter adaptor and charge all my items as well as 110V or AA or AAA batteries. They sell a battery charger for AA and AAA batteries that will take a 12v input at that site. So with that you can charge 4 AA or 4 AAA. If you had 2 radios that run 2 batteries buy 8 batteries so you can use 4 when 4 are charging. Now if you don’t use batteries you will need to do some math and find out how much power you need and get a panel that will meet / exceed your needs to use them straight off the panel. Now that said if you had a cloudy day or winter your generation of power will be a lot less than in the summer. So a battery will not be a bad idea to bank some energy. Also don’t plan on walking around with solar set up and plan on it being effective. I am not an expert and I don’t know everything but from what I have seen it will not be efficient.

I made a battery box with a lawnmower/ motorcycle SLA battery and put it in a box with a 12V cigar lighter socket as well as some other common used power adaptors so when I am in a base camp I can set up my panels in the open and charge wile I am out and about. When I get back it is charged up for the night and I recharge batteries and radios wile I sleep. In that box is also a small inverter for like a laptop computer if needed and a charger for if I have the ability to plug into the wall. PM me if you want pictures.

I keep my wall wart chargers and cradles at home. I will buy the correct connector for the item at radio shack and build a custom cable to my universal adaptor. From there I have one of everything like alligator clips, small battery clips, and ring terminals so I can mix and match. Or get a universal 12V cigar plug to whatever adaptor you need at radio shack. Take the item in and they have samples so you get the correct size. Did that make since or did I make that hard to understand?

[rakkFO]

For your FRS set up I think (think is the key word here) the 5W or 10W panel with meet your needs with the battery charger
(http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-F15-300 ... 129&sr=1-4)
And battery charger (http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-RA-3c-B ... 24&sr=8-21)

Depending on your set up and radios they may come with a 12V plug and you could bypass the battery charger, or use the AA for flash lights and other equipment. Just my option and I like the setup so I am spreading the word. I don’t know what radios you have or plan to buy so that will make all the difference in the world if you want to go direct if you use the AA this would be good. Or the one with the charger built in.

sorry for back to back posts I got more ideas when I depress submit syndrome

[moab]

All good stuff rakk. The only dc adapter for the radios in the original post is one to use the radio off a cig lighter adapter. But no dc adapter is available for charging the batteries. I would have to carry an inverter. Therefore I think the FRS/GMRS AA radios would be the best answer for me. And the 5w solar panel with AA battery charger. All my headlamp, flashlight, radio, scanner etc. run off of AA. So it only makes sense that I run an AA type two way.

I didn't know the solar panels wouldn't work on top of a pack. That sucks. I guess stopping to charge batteries will be a requirement.

[moab]

So if I pick up this $60 5W solar charger with a female 12v cig socket.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PowerFilm-F ... 35b9714611

Can I then solder together a ratshack AA batery holder with male cig plug and have it charge the AA's? Or do I have to buy their $57 AA charger?