TriSquare frequency hopping handhelds

[TDelta]

Does anyone have any experience with these?

http://www.trisquare.us/tsx300.htm

I had a chance to use them and I was very impressed.

I have ordered a pair and if there is no previous experience with these, I will do a use report.

[RevolverOcelot]

Hey those look pretty sweet. May have to pick up a couple of sets.

[DeltaEchoVictor]

Not only have I never used them, I'd never heard of them until you posted that. They look pretty interesting, thanks. I'll await your report.

[Hatch]

I don't know, I can find scarce few reliable reviews out there. Of the reviews that I did find, all of the good reviews read like an astroturfing campaign. The reviews that felt like they were actually written by real end users - were all bad.

Negative reports included poor range, or less range than advertised, and loss of sync on pre-programmed frequency hopping schemes between two radios.

They claim the range is better than GMRS under the same conditions, because the frequency hopping scheme avoids interference due to contention for limited frequency space with other nearby users. I find this a little hard to believe.

The unlicensed eXRS radios emit 1W max on the heavily-used 900MHz band. The licensed GMRS radios emit 5W max on a much less-used 460MHz band. Even though you are changing frequency often, you still have to contend with any signals present on the frequencies you skip through.

I'd be curious to read a thorough field test report of these units.

--Hatch

[TDelta]

In researching these, found an article in this months Popular Communications magazine. Synopsis below.

Going to Barnes & Noble to get the whole mag.

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An Innovative License-Free Alternative To FRS/GMRS

The TriSquare TSX300 900-MHz
FHSS Handheld Transceiver Is
Positioned To Dominate The Consumer
Two-Way Radio Market

by Bernard Bates



PopComm’s November 2007 cover story, “Digital Two-Way Radio Technology Reaches Consumer Market” covered the emerging trend of new 900-MHz FHSS (Frequency-Hopping Spread-Spectrum) radios becoming a serious license-free alternative to FRS/GMRS radios. Picking up where that article left off, this article will review one such radio, the TriSquare TSX300.

This new handheld transceiver sets a new price/performance standard, using innovative digital technologies to offer many features we’re accustomed to seeing only in PCS/cellular handsets. It’s about time two-way radio users and hobbyists started benefiting from these exciting new personal communications technologies.

FRS/GMRS Problems Create Opportunity

Back in 1999, TriSquare was a major OEM manufacturer of FRS/GMRS radios for several companies marketing under various well-known brand names. As the popularity of FRS/GMRS radios skyrocketed over the next five years, the market approached saturation and profit margins dropped to unsustainably low levels. And, not surprisingly, the widespread use of 50 to 80 million FRS/GMRS radios created severe congestion on the 22 FRS/GMRS channels at crowded events, metropolitan areas, and elsewhere. Tens of millions of users, including many large and small businesses, blatantly violated FCC regulations by using GMRS channels without obtaining the required $75 license, or by using FRS channels for business purposes.

At the same time, many FRS/GMRS radio users became increasingly aware of the glaring feature disparity between their simple two-way radios and their feature-rich cell phones (which offered private and interference-free voice communications, text-messaging, caller ID, call waiting, contacts lists, hands-free operation, ringtones, vibrating alerts, etc.).

Engineering A Solution

In 2004 TriSquare started engineering a solution. Its years of experience designing DSP (Digital Signal Processing) and SDR (Software-Defined Radio) technologies into consumer two-way radios, and the falling cost of digital components needed to implement these technologies, convinced the company that it was feasible to build feature-rich FHSS two-way radios for the consumer market to supplant FRS/GMRS. DSP and SDR technologies allow advanced features and functions to be designed and implemented in software, and then duplicated in firmware, at far lower cost than using many dedicated electronic components.

[crypto]

In that case, these radios will work exactly as well as a 900MHz spread spectrum cordless phone, because thats precisely what it is. I would bet money that they're even using an existing radio that has FCC Part 15 approval, meaning that there's no new technology in the over-the-air interface. I've had a 900MHz FHSS phone for a long time. it works okay, but not as well as the 900MHz DSSS phone it replaced.

Ah well. I'd chalk this up under "gimmicks", instead of "serious comm gear".

[TDelta]

sigh, my reasoning for these is NOT to "go for the gusto" range-wise to displace FRS, I am attracted to the added features (SMS, selective calling, PRIVACY!)

These are viable trade offs against FRS/GMRS/MURS.

I am constantly amused by those that look for the "holy grail" radio. It doesn't exist.

To me, this is just another tool in my commo toolbox. It will probably displace the FRS units that the happy little band I am attached to use as "squad" radios.

OPSEC and COMSEC will be important components in the ZPAW

73's

Randy

KC0IJE (General)

[Hatch]

sigh, my reasoning for these is NOT to "go for the gusto" range-wise to displace FRS, I am attracted to the added features (SMS, selective calling, PRIVACY!)

These are viable trade offs against FRS/GMRS/MURS.

I am constantly amused by those that look for the "holy grail" radio. It doesn't exist.

To me, this is just another tool in my commo toolbox. It will probably displace the FRS units that the happy little band I am attached to use as "squad" radios.

OPSEC and COMSEC will be important components in the ZPAW

73's

Randy

KC0IJE (General)

Given the limited signal radius of FRS/GMRS/MURS and presumably eXRS, it seems to me that the COMSEC advantage of eXRS versus everything else is going to be limited at best in the PAW/ZPAW.

Realistic range of even GMRS at 5W is between a few hundred yards and a few miles, depending upon terrain and weather conditions.

In a paintball/airsoft situation where you've got multiple teams roaming a limited combat environment - there's probably a real chance that someone on an opposing team could and would snoop your comms. They know you're out there, they're out to get you, they're equipped with similar gear, and they've only got 22 channels to scan. In this situation, I think the FHSS radio may present a significant tactical advantage.

But in the PAW/ZPAW... really, I would think the odds of being compromised because raiders snooped your comms would be very low. They would need to be within your very limited signal radius, have the right hardware to hear your signal, and be actively scanning FRS/GMRS channels to find potential targets. That's a pretty savvy raider. And if you were actually using comms in a live-fire environment, where you thought it was possible that hostiles could overhear, wouldn't you be sending in a coded fashion anyway, rather than speaking in the clear?

In my opinion (and that's all this is) I view SHTF comms as a means to reach other people, so that maybe we can work together and help each other to survive - even if it's just by exchanging useful information over the air. As a result, I'm more interested in signal strength and range, than signal security. But then, I'm not going to be leading a fire team of ninjas in the PAW, so to each his own. Equip for your mission.

--Hatch

[Shinhao]

Major post necro, but here are some definitive answers that I have after some research.

The short answer is that the two TriSquare models, the TSX-300 and TSX-100, are good value for the money, much more secure than most consumer-grade FRS or GMRS systems, but are still far from actually secure. They are a big step up from your average CB radio or handheld, a few steps down from commercial-grade Motorola DTR systems, and much, much worse than military-grade SINCGARS. Buy these instead of other consumer-grade handhelds to avoid casual eavesdropping, but don't assume that your signals are secure.

The long answer:

The TriSquare systems have a frequency-hopping system that uses 50 frequencies which it switches every 400 milliseconds. The sequence is repeated every 20 seconds or so. To select a "channel", you choose any 10-digit number. This number is then used to generate the hopping sequence. If your radios have the same channel, they will hop through the frequencies in-sync, and you'll be able to communicate. The audio itself is not encrypted or digitized, and the frequencies are pre-set. This makes this system easy to defeat.

To defeat the TriSquare, all you need is a decently fast scanner. You first find the frequencies (just scan for them) , then, after you're satisfied you've found almost all of them, key your scanner to sweep only those frequencies. If your scanner is reasonably fast, you'll be able to pick up the signal almost immediately after the TriSquare "hops" to the next frequency. A mid-grade Uniden scanner can scan 300 channels per second. So, it is guaranteed to pick up the signal within 167 milliseconds, and will pick it up, on average, within 83 milliseconds. So, given that the TriSquare hops every 400 milliseconds, 79% of your conversation will be heard. If the scanner is hooked-up to a computer, the computer could memorize the jump-sequence (it's about 20 seconds long), and then tell the scanner to jump with the radios, basically giving 100% of the conversation.

So the TriSquare will give you some protection from casuals who surf from channel to channel looking to eavesdrop, but it will not protect you from a decent amateur radio operator with a good scanner.

By contrast, a Motorola DTR system has a frequency hop-system that switches in less than 10 milliseconds, and uses packet-based digitized audio. It would be very hard to defeat without specialized, high-speed digital radio equipment. Basically, you're safe from everyone except the US government.

[GlockASP]

Shinhao, excellent post and very technical.

OK so I have had a pair of the TriSquare's for going on two years now. So What I am about to post is just my opinion and you might have a better or worse experience with the units.

I picked up the TriSquare's off of Amazon and was for the simple reason that they were a 1000 time more secure then any of the other options out there in the same price range. I had had an issue with serious congestion in my AO using FRS units in the past. So for under $100.00 i picked up a set of the full featured TriSquare eXRS TSX300's, two extra batteries and a pair of belt cases. We had a trip coming up and I need to have reliable como's for my wife and I.

TS clams that there units have "10 Billion Channels" and I guess if you crunch the numbers and such it just might. I really don't care as long as they work.

Build quality on the units is about the same as the FRS units out there. They are not anywhere near waterproof or water resistant (and a few emails to TS about them making waterproof units was a flat not on the drawing board). That is not to say that if they get a little light rain or splash of water that they will self destruct. They are just not built to any type of water resistance certification or testing. The plastic used on them is not very thick or rubberized in any way and IMHO is "cheap". (Mine have been dropped and played with by 6yo boys and have survived)

The battery cover is a weak point on the unit, it uses the same kind of latch you would find on a TV remote control. Crappy and prone to failure with heavy use. There is also two metal contacts on the battery cover to allow charging of the unit without removing the battery.

The belt clips are a fracking joke, they should re design them, but they will not.

The batteries are a crap shoot, some are great and some just plain suck. TS will replace batteries on new units under warranty if they are defective. The units will use regular AA batteries, although on my unit they are tight to get in and out. I have found that if the AA or the NiMH's are left in the unit they will drain.

The battery charger base does not like to make contact with the battery cover contacts to charge the installed NiMH batteries in the units. The charging units are slow 15 hour chargers and i don't think they have a cutoff once the batteries are charged. There is no fast charger available that I am aware of. The charger base units they have on there site are just the same ones included in the bubble pack I got the units in.

My units also came with a pair of ear pieces that plug in to the side of the units. There is a built in VOX in the units and there is a PTT and mic in line to the ear pieces. I might just be spoiled, but again I found them to be cheap and "disposable" like in quality. They work and do there job as advertised but just "feel" cheap to me.

Field tests when we first got the units was kinda fun and a bit eye opening to say the least. It was not really scientific just real world testing. I did head to head testing against Motorola FRS units I had on hand. And again this was two years ago and I am going on memory so it might not be super detailed but you will get the idea.

First test was in a Super Wal Mart and I was surprised to find that they worked better then the FRS units in range and quality (900 Mhz likes to bounce around in the building and that helps it out a lot inside). At no time did we have any interference or interruptions on the TS units, we did on the FRS units.

Second test was at a minor league ball field all open and line of sight. Worked great and again no interference or interruptions. I could not find an open channel on the FRS units, but I was also not using CTCSS or DCS on them either.

Third test was during a paintball game and we linked 18 TS units to work together. Out of the 18 only 15 survived the 48 hour game. One took a direct hit in the screen and cracked it to the point you could not read it, it would still TX and RX but it was toast. The second unit was an antenna being snapped off. The third unit was water damage, it was completely submerged in a pond when the user fell off (or did he jump, i can't remember now)a boat with it on.
During this field test we put them through a lot of use, the NiMH's were useless and cant be recharged in the field and the AA were the only option.

There is one serious flaw and weak point to the FHSS system they use, they don't always "sync" up and stay in touch. If you Google the units there is a really good write up on the technical reasons for this and it can explain it much better then I can. It has some thing to do with a unit being out of range and the other units hopping to the next freq while the out of range unit does not and it takes them time to re sync up to each other. Bottom line is that it opens up a flaw that could be an issue. It can take a couple of minutes to for the units to re sync up.

My conclusions with the units and using them for the past two years is that they are not much better then a low quality FRS unit. They are cheaply built but have stood up to more abuse then I ever thought they would, but then so do the FRS units. My original reason for getting these units was for a family trip to Disney World and they did OK, not great, but OK. Not a peep from any other users, and that was what I wanted and needed.

Would I buy them again and more importantly would I recommend others to buy them. Thats a tough one, I think you would have to look at your intended purpose for them. For options and privacy concerns they are great. Being able to alpha tag a channel and call up just one single radio is awesome, but is that something you really need.

Your not going to get the kind of range that is boasted by any of the manufactures and as long as you keep that in mind you should be fine.
My big gripe with the TS units is build quality, they just feel cheap & the buttons stick out and can get damaged.

I would buy them again, I just wish I knew or had more info on there limitations before I got them. For the price they are packed with options and do work well for the most part. They are not really secure, but are a hell of a lot better then TXing in the open. In two years I have never had interference or interruptions from any other users at all at any time. I can not say that about the FRS units, MURS or GMRS.