Salt for the long term?

Discuss lifestyle changes to better survive disasters. This category is for topics pertaining to being self reliant such as DIY, farming, alternative energy, autonomous solutions to water collection and waste removal, etc.

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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by raptor » Mon May 28, 2012 1:19 pm

Crazy Wolf wrote: It would still be a handy prep.
I do not disagree with that. Like Phil said buy a 25 lb bag of salt and you should be good for a long time. Iodine does oxidize over time and as such the iodine level will decline. Hence my comment about iodine.

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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by grennels » Mon May 28, 2012 2:44 pm

99.9 softener salt w/o red out.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by Crazy Wolf » Mon May 28, 2012 4:33 pm

raptor wrote:
Crazy Wolf wrote: It would still be a handy prep.
I do not disagree with that. Like Phil said buy a 25 lb bag of salt and you should be good for a long time. Iodine does oxidize over time and as such the iodine level will decline. Hence my comment about iodine.
Glad we're agreed. :)

Anyone know the level of iodine recommended for life in a place near Chernobyl? Basically, what level per day your body can take up to avoid your body taking up certain radioactive elements?
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by raptor » Mon May 28, 2012 6:53 pm

Crazy Wolf wrote:
raptor wrote:
Crazy Wolf wrote: It would still be a handy prep.
I do not disagree with that. Like Phil said buy a 25 lb bag of salt and you should be good for a long time. Iodine does oxidize over time and as such the iodine level will decline. Hence my comment about iodine.
Glad we're agreed. :)

Anyone know the level of iodine recommended for life in a place near Chernobyl? Basically, what level per day your body can take up to avoid your body taking up certain radioactive elements?
Honestly if is lived near enough to a nuclear accident site to need iodine to protect my thyroid, I woudl be more worried about moving than ingesting iodine.

I would also note that ingesting too much iodine is toxic.

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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by ineffableone » Mon May 28, 2012 7:28 pm

RogerK wrote:Part of the Roman Legionary's pay was in salt. Just sayin' :mrgreen:
Yep I mentioned that the term salary comes from the word salt, from when soldiers were paid in salt.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by ineffableone » Mon May 28, 2012 9:21 pm

ryan80 wrote:First post here guys. I have done a lot of reading on self sufficient living. A lot of the self sufficent books teach you how to make almost everything for yourself. One day I hope to have a self-sufficient farm with very few things that I need to buy from the outside world. One gaping hole to me seems to be where I would get salt for preserving meats. In the southeastern US, where would my supply of salt come from 10 years into an end of society disaster--or just if I want to have a small farm with a minimal number of purchased goods? How much salt would Ineed to have stored to continue to make bacon, hams and salted beef for years to come? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Not sure why so many people are suggesting buying and storing salt so much. Yes that is a good stop gap for during collapse but really that is not long term. Storing large amounts of salt is cumbersome in both weight and space. If you need to bug out or be mobile, then you will probably loose all that salt. This was why I posted links to salt deposits. A much more productive way to make sure you have salt is to know where to get it.
ineffableone wrote:Historically salt has been a major trade item. People often defended their salt mines, or other salt sources with extreme seriousness. The term salary comes from salt from when solders were paid with salt.

So where would your salt come from? Most likely from someone who did their research and located salt mines. Or from the sea. You will most likely trade quite a bit for your salt.

If you want to be the one sitting on the salt mine, trading with others, then check the links below.

You can look here for the major salt deposits of the US http://www.saltinstitute.org/content/view/full/4229

Or you can find more regional info like this one for Kansas http://www.kgs.ku.edu/Publications/Bull ... _salt.html

Of course one problem with a lot of minerals, if society collapses it might be difficult to access minerals as we have taken most of the easy to get surface mineral deposits already. 10 years into PAW if things have not come back then it is likely we will never rebuild society like we had. Old mines will collapse and become too dangerous. Not just salt but a lot of minerals will be come very difficult to find once the left overs left by the crumbling society are used up.
I know there was at least in the past a large salt deposit in Virginia, which was the first salt mine in the US used by Europeans. It was a crucial salt mine during the Civil war.

If your not near the ocean then it would be wise to figure out where your closest salt deposits are in your region. Some places the source of salt is actually a water spring where the water is heavily salted, and you need to evaporate the water to make the salt, other places it is a rock and needs to be mined. Some places the salt is less pure than others, some you need to dissolve the mined salt into water to separate the other materials and purify it. These are all things you would want to learn before things break down.

Sure stocking up on salt in your preps is a good idea. However stocking up on knowledge to make and get your own salt is an even better idea. Any supply of prepped salt is only a temporary measure, unless your stock is an old salt mine. :wink:
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by Stercutus » Mon May 28, 2012 9:30 pm

I know there was at least in the past a large salt deposit in Virginia, which was the first salt mine in the US used by Europeans. It was a crucial salt mine during the Civil war.
Probably talking about the mines near Saltville. There were a couple of battles fought there over the mine. Good lessons on how to place artillery properly and the value of a reverse slope defense over silhouetting yourself on a ridge.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Mon May 28, 2012 11:53 pm

ineffableone wrote:
ryan80 wrote:First post here guys. I have done a lot of reading on self sufficient living. A lot of the self sufficent books teach you how to make almost everything for yourself. One day I hope to have a self-sufficient farm with very few things that I need to buy from the outside world. One gaping hole to me seems to be where I would get salt for preserving meats. In the southeastern US, where would my supply of salt come from 10 years into an end of society disaster--or just if I want to have a small farm with a minimal number of purchased goods? How much salt would Ineed to have stored to continue to make bacon, hams and salted beef for years to come? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Not sure why so many people are suggesting buying and storing salt so much. Yes that is a good stop gap for during collapse but really that is not long term. Storing large amounts of salt is cumbersome in both weight and space. If you need to bug out or be mobile, then you will probably loose all that salt. This was why I posted links to salt deposits. A much more productive way to make sure you have salt is to know where to get it.
ineffableone wrote:Historically salt has been a major trade item. People often defended their salt mines, or other salt sources with extreme seriousness. The term salary comes from salt from when solders were paid with salt.

So where would your salt come from? Most likely from someone who did their research and located salt mines. Or from the sea. You will most likely trade quite a bit for your salt.

If you want to be the one sitting on the salt mine, trading with others, then check the links below.

You can look here for the major salt deposits of the US http://www.saltinstitute.org/content/view/full/4229

Or you can find more regional info like this one for Kansas http://www.kgs.ku.edu/Publications/Bull ... _salt.html

Of course one problem with a lot of minerals, if society collapses it might be difficult to access minerals as we have taken most of the easy to get surface mineral deposits already. 10 years into PAW if things have not come back then it is likely we will never rebuild society like we had. Old mines will collapse and become too dangerous. Not just salt but a lot of minerals will be come very difficult to find once the left overs left by the crumbling society are used up.
I know there was at least in the past a large salt deposit in Virginia, which was the first salt mine in the US used by Europeans. It was a crucial salt mine during the Civil war.

If your not near the ocean then it would be wise to figure out where your closest salt deposits are in your region. Some places the source of salt is actually a water spring where the water is heavily salted, and you need to evaporate the water to make the salt, other places it is a rock and needs to be mined. Some places the salt is less pure than others, some you need to dissolve the mined salt into water to separate the other materials and purify it. These are all things you would want to learn before things break down.

Sure stocking up on salt in your preps is a good idea. However stocking up on knowledge to make and get your own salt is an even better idea. Any supply of prepped salt is only a temporary measure, unless your stock is an old salt mine. :wink:
My issue is that going to get my own salt means mining it, transporting it, and dealing with whoever got there first. I'd rather store a few hundred pounds and call it good.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by phil_in_cs » Tue May 29, 2012 9:49 am

Doc Torr wrote:My issue is that going to get my own salt means mining it, transporting it, and dealing with whoever got there first. I'd rather store a few hundred pounds and call it good.
Exactly. You can go by Sam's today and get 300lbs of food grade salt for $50 + tax.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by Stercutus » Tue May 29, 2012 10:05 am

phil_in_cs wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:My issue is that going to get my own salt means mining it, transporting it, and dealing with whoever got there first. I'd rather store a few hundred pounds and call it good.
Exactly. You can go by Sam's today and get 300lbs of food grade salt for $50 + tax.
How much is that in silver and .22lr?
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Post by SwampRat » Tue May 29, 2012 10:10 am

About 2 ounces of silver or 1,700 rounds of 22 in todays market.

Id wager that price going up in a collapse.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by KYZHunters » Tue May 29, 2012 11:30 am

Saw how important this was in Somalia 92/93; there was a small sea salt operation south of Mogadishu that used a very clever system of dams that allowed water into forms at high tide. The hard part for these folks was getting their salt into Mogadishu to trade for other things without being killed. Think Mad Max with salt blocks instead of gasoline.
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Re: Re: SwampRat's adventures in suburban gardening.

Post by AKFTW » Tue May 29, 2012 11:54 am

SwampRat wrote:1,700 rounds of 22 in todays market.
Where are you shopping? :shock: I can get about 1,300rds for $50 (2 1/2 bulk packs)
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by cautiousdan » Tue May 29, 2012 12:03 pm

My suggestion for salt for the long term(and I mean truly long term since you're talking about ten years out) is to buy a metric crap ton at Sam's or Costco and store it in 5 gallon buckets in mylar bags. It will pretty much last forever that way. Store plenty because it is cheap, can flavor staples and can be used in preservation of food and as a barter item. If you have any questions about the food storage in buckets process hit me up. I've done it a few times so I've kinda got it figured out somewhat.

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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by SwampRat » Tue May 29, 2012 4:27 pm

Wal-mart... Was selling 550 for 20 bucks last time I bought. So, yeah I guess I fucked up the math on that.

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Re: Re: SwampRat's adventures in suburban gardening.

Post by NamelessStain » Tue May 29, 2012 4:32 pm

AKFTW wrote:
SwampRat wrote:1,700 rounds of 22 in todays market.
Where are you shopping? :shock: I can get about 1,300rds for $50 (2 1/2 bulk packs)
Here's one about 1500 rounds but need to add shipping: http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-reming ... 00-rounds/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by dukman » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:24 pm

raptor wrote: That said humans need only 150 micrograms (about 1/20,000th of a teaspoon) iodine daily. This level can be obtained by eating a variety of foods. The problem is that humans do not store iodine so a littel must be ingested daily.

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/artic ... iodine.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So no you do not need iodized salt.
I read that up here in the Pacific NW there is no natural Iodine in the ground, that is why the natives relied so heavily on fishing. I have iodized salt just in case I am not that good at fishing :oops:
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by ineffableone » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:28 pm

dukman wrote:
raptor wrote: That said humans need only 150 micrograms (about 1/20,000th of a teaspoon) iodine daily. This level can be obtained by eating a variety of foods. The problem is that humans do not store iodine so a littel must be ingested daily.

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/artic ... iodine.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So no you do not need iodized salt.
I read that up here in the Pacific NW there is no natural Iodine in the ground, that is why the natives relied so heavily on fishing. I have iodized salt just in case I am not that good at fishing :oops:
I think the natives here in the NW relied so heavily on fishing because it was and is such an amazing source of food. I don't think they realised there was less iodine in food from land, if that is so, they just saw how much food they could get from the water and how easy it was to get.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by pahwraith » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:53 pm

Salt was produced between 1790 and 1860 in Louisiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois and Missouri by boiling brine in salt furnaces. Waste wood products from the lumber industry supplied low cost fuel to produce salt from salt springs at Saginaw and St. Clair, Michigan during the mid-1800s. Drillers found a rock salt deposit at St. Clair, Michigan in 1882, providing nearly saturated brine to feed the evaporators. Solution mining of rock salt deposits spread rapidly throughout the salt producing states. When rock salt deposits were reached by drilling, conventional underground mining soon followed. Salt mining continues today throughout North America in Kansas, Louisiana, Ohio, New York, Texas, Ontario, New Brunswick (potash and salt), Quebec, and Nova Scotia.

Salt production in Kansas, Utah, Louisiana, New York, Ohio and Michigan in the U.S. has enriched local history and culture. Branding by Morton has made it a highly-recognized name in American commerce. Salt mining under the City of Detroit, Michigan has been a long-standing activity.
http://www.saltworks.us/salt_info/si_HistoryOfSalt.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So it seems like the Midwest will be pretty well served, as well as the coasts. Utah will probably supply the surrounding states. So that covers a good chunk of the US that will have acess to salt.

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Re: Re: SwampRat's adventures in suburban gardening.

Post by AKFTW » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:56 pm

NamelessStain wrote:
AKFTW wrote:
SwampRat wrote:1,700 rounds of 22 in todays market.
Where are you shopping? :shock: I can get about 1,300rds for $50 (2 1/2 bulk packs)
Here's one about 1500 rounds but need to add shipping: http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-reming ... 00-rounds/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Re: SwampRat's adventures in suburban gardening.

Post by NamelessStain » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:54 pm

AKFTW wrote:
Thunderbolts....ewww...
When you go to the range you don't go with JHPs do you? :D

Thunderbolts are fine for range time.

Or pay an extra $2/box and get http://www.surplusammo.com/22-lr-federa ... alue-pack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by ZombieGranny » Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:59 pm

Ahem... Fellows?
Thread title -
"Salt for the long term?"

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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by NamelessStain » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:17 pm

Himalayan Salt Blocks are awesome and they contain minerals. Good call.
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Re: Salt for the long term?

Post by Illini Warrior » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:44 pm

Florida_Tony wrote:Hi Ryan. Welcome. :)

If you're 10 years into a disaster and you still can't buy salt somewhere, then I think you'll have bigger problems to worry about. Humans need salt to survive, so if there's any semblance of society, people will mine and sell salt. It may be expensive, but it'll be available.

Nevertheless, I still store a lot of salt. I've got two of those 5 gallon buckets filled with salt. To keep it from caking, I used mylar bags and oxygen absorbers. Those buckets will last indefinitely.

Each person needs 2-3 pounds of salt per year in their diet. I've got over 60 pounds stored, so that should last me and my family quite a while. If you need to preserve meat, then store even more. I'm sure others will need it during a crisis, so it's also good for trading.

02 absorbers will cause caking when packing long term of both salt and sugar ..... absolutely no need for 02 absorbers for either food item

always use a food grade container for packing a food item ..... when packing salt or sugar, no harm in lining the food grade container with a mylar bag, but not necessary ..... mylar bags only serve as an air filtration barrier .....

desiccant packs are not a necessity, but moisture control keeps salt from "melting" and turning into saline slime .... good idea in a high humidity region of the country
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