Weapons belt - **Completed**

Other provisions not covered above that may make survival easier if your life is tossed out of the norm. This section is for discussing everything from arc welders to underwear.

Moderator: ZS Global Moderators

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby ODA 226 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:29 pm

Murph wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:Drop the empty or partially used mag down your shirt (shirt tucked in) and be done with it.


But again the issue remains: if you don't have time to put it away properly, do you really have time to even bother retaining it? If I'm being shot at, I want my next shot to be as fast as possible, and I'll let my mag hit the deck. If not, I can take the time to put that mag where it belongs.


Because if you discard every mag you use while in a 2-way fire fight, you'll be out of mags fairly quickly. Dump pouches and ye'old shirt trick keep this from happening. Proper practice using a dump pouch will not add a whole lot of time on your reloads, but still give you usable mags for later.


What Murph said...PLUS, never run your mag dry in a firefight. The loudest sound in the world is a hammer hitting an empty chamber...and everyone around you (especially the badguys) will hear it!

Always make a tactical reload from behind cover BEFORE you move to your next location and 99% of the time you won't have to worry about running your weapon dry. Drop the partially used mag down your shirt, (old school) or in a dump pouch. (new school, but I'm too old school not to drop them down my shirt.)
Bitka Sve Rešava!
NEVER SACRIFICE SECURITY FOR SPEED!
B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

My INCH Bag
My Ultimate Altoid Tin
My Bug-In Solar Lights
My Wilderness Ditch Kit
Image
User avatar
ODA 226
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:15 pm
Location: Etzenricht, Germany

Re: Weapons belt - under construction.

Postby zoiders » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:37 pm

Phoenix David wrote:OK, I finally got everything in :D

So this is what I got from left to right
Image
Double pistol mag pouch
Triple M4 w/pistol mag pouch
Maxpedition Rollypoly MM Dump Pouch
Multi-tool pouch
FAK
Blade-Tech Drop&Offset SRloop holster
Springfield Armory XDM .45ACP

Weight empty: 4.2 lbs
Pistol config - XDM .45 w/light and 6 mags: 11 lbs
Rifle config - 3x30rd PMags: 7.4 lbs
Pistol & Rifle config: 14.2 lbs
3 gun config - Pistol & Rifle + 25 round shotgun ammo: 16.6 lbs
It looks fine and pouch layout is personal preference but unless you have the generous hips and booty of the ever lovely Beyoncé Knowles then you are going to need a yolk to hold it up or it will be around your ankles when you shoot and scoot with it.
zoiders
* * * *
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Chef » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:45 pm

you are going to need a yolk to hold it up


I doubt even a fully intact egg could hold up a war belt. :lol:
Orville Wright did not have a pilot's license.
User avatar
Chef
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: 40 klicks north of the Do Long bridge

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby zoiders » Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:54 pm

:roll:

Yoke.

Whatever, dyslexics don't give a shit.
zoiders
* * * *
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby -Jason- » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:14 pm

Padded belt like that stay up very well with out the aid of suspenders.
-Jason-
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:37 pm
Location: Southern, New Jersey

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Phoenix David » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:18 pm

I did purchase the suspenders at the same time, so in case I needed them I wouldn't have to wait.

It stays up find around the house but will know better after some range time with it.
Nobody ever wishes they brought a smaller gun to a gun fight
User avatar
Phoenix David
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 2931
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:28 pm
Location: Glendale, Az

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby zoiders » Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:42 pm

-Jason- wrote:Padded belt like that stay up very well with out the aid of suspenders.
You will still end up having to hitch it up after a while padding or not.

I have put serious hours and miles in with belt kit with a pad, you still want that yoke.
zoiders
* * * *
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:36 am

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby ODA 226 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:59 pm

zoiders wrote:
-Jason- wrote:Padded belt like that stay up very well with out the aid of suspenders.
You will still end up having to hitch it up after a while padding or not.

I have put serious hours and miles in with belt kit with a pad, you still want that yoke.


YUP!
Bitka Sve Rešava!
NEVER SACRIFICE SECURITY FOR SPEED!
B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

My INCH Bag
My Ultimate Altoid Tin
My Bug-In Solar Lights
My Wilderness Ditch Kit
Image
User avatar
ODA 226
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:15 pm
Location: Etzenricht, Germany

Re: Weapons belt - under construction.

Postby Razor » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:16 pm

Crimson Phoenix wrote:I'm feeling squeamish about the AR platform already since I'm, as a cadet officer of mine once told me, born wrong-handed. :P


Dude don't worry about it. I've been in the military almost four years now, I did two in the Air Force and now I'm serving out a five year contract with the Army as an Infantryman. I've done one tour in Iraq and I shoot extensivly in my free time I'm also left handed.

When I first came in they wanted me to shoot right handed with the M249 SAW, M240B, AT4 and the M203. The 203 and AT4 I still sucks with but the SAW and the 240B I deployed with and got a bunch of trigger time on I shot them both fine lefty as is the same with the AR-15 platform.

Honestly dude it's about what's comfortable for you and what you practice with. I know plenty of lefties that shoot righty because it's what they were told to do. And I know plenty of lefties that shoot just fine right handed. It's all about drilling it into your system and learning how to run the gun right. Also the whole brass thing is bullshit I've only ever been hit in the head with brass when I got to close to one of my buddies shooting right next to me.

Hope this helps.
Absit invidia.
User avatar
Razor
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:48 am
Location: Merica!

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Kommander » Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:22 pm

I would add suspenders and ditch that small pistol mag pouch for more rifle mags. Having more pistol mags than rifle mags when you intend to be using a rifle strikes me as unwise.
Image

Why must all the hoops be on fire?
User avatar
Kommander
* * * * *
 
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby KnightoftheRoc » Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:13 am

@ Razor- do they still have the brass deflectors in use for lefties, or did uniformity win out over results in this as well? I remember they had them available on the M16A1's in the 80's.

On the belt needing suspenders- it all depends on the person wearing it, and their build/preference. I have a pistol belt that carries 15-20 lbs of 'stuff', and it rides all day actively, with no problems. I've also seen the same exact set up wind up doing an impression of a pair of socks on someone else. I'd take the suspenders along until you can be sure you DON'T need them, or decide you do, and install them. Like any other piece of gear, YMMV.
silentpoet wrote:My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.
User avatar
KnightoftheRoc
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 4250
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:14 am

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby ninja-elbow » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:35 pm

With me? Viking gut and Asain ass = belt falls down with a few pounds on it. Though I have had success with padded duty belts in the past 1.5 years. If I cinch it down tight it bites in good on my hips and I have hiked miles succesfully with a "war belt" and no suspenders (load: 92fs w/ holster, 2 mags, multitool and light, Gerber Prodigy knife, empty dump pouch all rolled up).
President ZSC011
Part Viking, Part Siamese
User avatar
ninja-elbow
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
 
Posts: 14126
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby hotlead » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:47 am

I'd definately be looking for suspenders of some sort, but that's just my preference.

On retaining mags: I was taught to retain mags whenever possible in combat, and to put them in their pouches rounds/followers up, this way you'll be able to feel which mag you're pulling, particularly when using ranger tabs. This really only applies to rifle mags, and is probably a little outdated these days, but that's how I do it.

Now, if defending my home from waves of zombies or magazine subscription sales people, the mags get dropped and left for the police to put flags on.
"your 9mm might expand when it hits the target, but my .45 sure as hell won't shrink"- Arguing with my Brother about pistol calibers.

"You can never have too many guns, yo-yos, or crayons"- Mrs. Hotlead speaking to my Nephew.

"If you don't let your farts out, you'll get bad breath"- Talking to my Neice at a campfire
hotlead
* *
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:11 am
Location: East Bay, S.F. Bay Area, Ca.

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Rick Shaw » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:52 am

Everyone is saying add suspenders to the belt.
I'm a big fan of the pistol belt, But I cannot for the live of me find a decent pair of suspenders that's not surplus Alice or overly expensive.

Anybody got susgestion?
User avatar
Rick Shaw
* *
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby hotlead » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:03 pm

Here ya go- http://www.atstacticalgear.com/cgi/comm ... ey=ST-2599

Low profile to go under a vest, simple as can be, and about the same price as a set of old ALICE suspenders.
"your 9mm might expand when it hits the target, but my .45 sure as hell won't shrink"- Arguing with my Brother about pistol calibers.

"You can never have too many guns, yo-yos, or crayons"- Mrs. Hotlead speaking to my Nephew.

"If you don't let your farts out, you'll get bad breath"- Talking to my Neice at a campfire
hotlead
* *
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:11 am
Location: East Bay, S.F. Bay Area, Ca.

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Rick Shaw » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:44 pm

Do you have personal experience with them?
Do they dig in if you have an armour carrier over them?
They seem like they wouldn't, but you never know until you try them.
That would be a deal breaker to me.
User avatar
Rick Shaw
* *
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby hotlead » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:48 pm

Nope, just a few seconds searching. But they don't look much different than the suspenders I had on my tool bags, those could get up to 25lbs for the day, depending on what I was doing.
"your 9mm might expand when it hits the target, but my .45 sure as hell won't shrink"- Arguing with my Brother about pistol calibers.

"You can never have too many guns, yo-yos, or crayons"- Mrs. Hotlead speaking to my Nephew.

"If you don't let your farts out, you'll get bad breath"- Talking to my Neice at a campfire
hotlead
* *
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:11 am
Location: East Bay, S.F. Bay Area, Ca.

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Jeriah » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:14 pm

hotlead wrote:Here ya go- http://www.atstacticalgear.com/cgi/comm ... ey=ST-2599

Low profile to go under a vest, simple as can be, and about the same price as a set of old ALICE suspenders.


The combination of those suspenders + their War Belt and War Belt Insert Belt looks pretty damned good.

I am still thinking about my quandry about different pieces of kit interfacing with one another. My drop leg holster can hang off my pants belt, low enough not to interfere with any other kit, but high enough to function well, so feel like that's the right place for it. My dump pouch, if I use it, can ride on the opposite side, also hanging from my pants belt.

Obviously either of these things could alternatively hang from a War Belt, and the ATS setup I mentioned above lets you access the duty belt under the MOLLE-equipped padded cover, specifically for hanging a sub-load. That means the hangers aren't taking up MOLLE space on the belt. So I could set up the belt with ATS suspenders to take the weight and then add rifle mag pouches, pistol mag pouches, knife, multitool, flashlight, and IFAK.

Or I could omit the rifle mag pouches, keeping all of them on my chest rig, so that my chest rig is JUST for rifle mags, and the war belt is for everything else.

So, what this is leaving me with is the idea of nothing on my pants belt, and my war belt having pistol holster, pistol mags, dump pouch, IFAK, knife, multitool, and flashlight. My chest rig or vest (currently, USGI Fighting Load Carrier) would be clean of everything but rifle mag pouches. This makes a lot of sense to me, because if I'm just doing pistol training (or competition, or involved in activities that don't include having a rifle around) I can just wear the war belt, and if I'm using the rifle I add the chest rig.

If for some reason I was going to use the rifle but not the pistol I'd be lacking in some key gear if I didn't wear the war belt, but I don't see much chance of this happening outside of certain competitions like the Knob Creek assault rifle match. In those cases, my knife, multitool, flashlight, and IFAK wouldn't be much use DURING the match, and I could keep the rig close by to immediately don it again after the match. I could leave it on during the match, to treat the competition as a sort of training, unless wearing a pistol during the match is for some reason prohibited.

So everything sounds good, except for a couple of small issues. The first one is that my flashlight and multitool should be part of my EDC, but this isn't a real issue. I would just need redundant pouches, probably black ones for EDC and MultiCam or Coyote for the War Belt. I would have to remember to transfer them from one pouch to the other, but that's just a minor organizational issue, not a problem with the War Belt.

The other issue, however, is my old "What about a backpack?" issue. The war belt is simply not compatible with a load-bearing waistbelt on a ruck. So, I could wear my chest rig with a ruck, but not my war belt. So I'd need another set of pouches to go on my ruck's waistbelt, for my IFAK, knife, multitool, and flashlight. No problem, as my ruck's waistbelts are all MOLLE capable (thank you Kifaru!). My pistol and dump pouch could ride on my pants belt, although realistically if I was wearing a ruck, I'd be hiking, and I wouldn't want a dump pouch banging against my thigh with every step. The pistol might be a pain as well.

I know that this is kind of a tangential issue, but I think it needs to be really addressed in context of the war belt. Since the war belt isn't compatible with a ruck's weight-bearing waistbelt, what does one do when wearing one? If I'm going to be taking my ruck on and off all the time, where do my pistol reloads go? The challenge is going to the issue that I'm taking my ruck on and off, so I don't want to put anything on the ruck's waistbelt that I might suddenly need to defend myself or whatever...this would defeat the purpose of it being "first line gear."

I'm not trying to threadjack this thread with my personal beef about ruck compatibility, I'm really not. I am getting serious about training and competition, and just want to make sure I don't get into a situation where I find a solution that works great for training and competition but falls apart when I try to put it all together in the real world.
Image
User avatar
Jeriah
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 18267
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Chef » Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:43 pm

I know that this is kind of a tangential issue, but I think it needs to be really addressed in context of the war belt. Since the war belt isn't compatible with a ruck's weight-bearing waistbelt, what does one do when wearing one? If I'm going to be taking my ruck on and off all the time, where do my pistol reloads go? The challenge is going to the issue that I'm taking my ruck on and off, so I don't want to put anything on the ruck's waistbelt that I might suddenly need to defend myself or whatever...this would defeat the purpose of it being "first line gear."


Modular holster and a couple of pistol mag pouches on the chest rig is what I did. I have come to accept that I cannot wear my pistol belt at the same time as my load-bearing rucksack hip belt. I realize that means I might jack up my muscle memory on the draw and reload, but given the remote possibility me ever using that stuff under real pressure, I think I can be okay with that. (12-step recovery emoticon goes here)
Orville Wright did not have a pilot's license.
User avatar
Chef
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: 40 klicks north of the Do Long bridge

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Rick Shaw » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:43 pm

I've always had a pistol belt/ war belt with a ruck.

You just let the ruck ride high on the shoulders, don't use the load bearing waist band, rest the weight of the ruck on your pistol belt, and tighten down the shoulder straps.
Always worked for me and I used to carry this stuff for a living.

You do need suspenders for this though or you will kill your hips and quads.

If you still want to use your load bearing waist band, just fasten it above your pistol belt.
User avatar
Rick Shaw
* *
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Chef » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:57 pm

Rick Shaw wrote:I've always had a pistol belt/ war belt with a ruck.

You just let the ruck ride high on the shoulders, don't use the load bearing waist band, rest the weight of the ruck on your pistol belt, and tighten down the shoulder straps.
Always worked for me and I used to carry this stuff for a living.

You do need suspenders for this though or you will kill your hips and quads.

If you still want to use your load bearing waist band, just fasten it above your pistol belt.


That works great with ALICE and a LC1/2 harness. Not so much with a more modern pack that has a load bearing hip belt, as opposed to a stabilizing-but-not-exactly-load-bearing waist belt like ALICE has. Hence the hand-wringing re. "what to do with the pistol belt?"
Orville Wright did not have a pilot's license.
User avatar
Chef
ZS Member
ZS Member
 
Posts: 3593
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: 40 klicks north of the Do Long bridge

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby Rick Shaw » Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:19 pm

Chef wrote:
Rick Shaw wrote:I've always had a pistol belt/ war belt with a ruck.

You just let the ruck ride high on the shoulders, don't use the load bearing waist band, rest the weight of the ruck on your pistol belt, and tighten down the shoulder straps.
Always worked for me and I used to carry this stuff for a living.

You do need suspenders for this though or you will kill your hips and quads.

If you still want to use your load bearing waist band, just fasten it above your pistol belt.


That works great with ALICE and a LC1/2 harness. Not so much with a more modern pack that has a load bearing hip belt, as opposed to a stabilizing-but-not-exactly-load-bearing waist belt like ALICE has. Hence the hand-wringing re. "what to do with the pistol belt?"


It still works. I did it all the time in the Marines with both the Molle 2 and the digital civilian looking pack they gave us around 2005.
If you have an alice set up you rest it on your butt pack.
If you have a police stlye pistol belt you ride the pack high and fasten the load bearing waist band above the belt around your naval.

It works.Trust me.
User avatar
Rick Shaw
* *
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:35 pm

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby TR0N » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:55 pm

I have an ATS Warbelt as well and have worn it for some pretty extensive periods of time in some pretty unforgiving terrain with a pack on.

I thought about going the rout of having a pack with MOLLE on the waist belt but then i realized that, as heavy as a fully loaded 3 day pack can be, it would be the first thing i ditched if bullets started flying. I would only need it if i survived the engagement and i could always go back and get it. So having any "gunfighting" equipment on my pack was a definite no go.

With my pack (maxpedition falcon II) i can wear it with the waist belt in use without it interfering with my belt. I do rest the pack on my war belt slightly and I have a set of suspenders in the mail.

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
TR0N
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:05 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Weapons belt - **Completed**

Postby CapAdama1 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:22 pm

That setup looks Frackin sweet! Where are you at in those pics?
User avatar
CapAdama1
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:19 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Other Gear

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests