Liquid Light Revisited

[TacAir]

Is Biff gone forever?

[berrytim80]

That’s great. I love the stuff. Thanks, for the review.

[Cazo]

I like things that I "believe" will last a life time.

I found this thread while I was hunting for a "High Quality Lantern" I was really close to buying the Petromax. Talk about dodging a bullet.

I ended up buying two kerosene lanterns. Dietz #76 Solid Brass and Feuerhand #276 tin plated. I love the light and the simplicity
I bought the Dietz because it is solid brass so I felt it would last forever unless damaged. I bought the Feuerhand because I found reviews saying it was the best made oil lamp, made in Germany and the claims the globe is heat treated and can handle rain and snow contact without cracking.

My take:
The quiet warm light is a homerun vs. pressure lanterns.
The simplicity is a homerun vs. pressure lanterns
Both still feel thinly constructed with the Feuerhand being slightly better construction. I wish I could find the same design in a heavier gauge material.
The Feuerhand globe is definitely higher quality than the Dietz.

The net of it: I am ordering two more Feuerhands. I’m going to try the painted.

Bonus: I used them as party lights on my patio this weekend and everybody was asking where I got them. They all loved the light they put off and the “look “of the lanterns.

[willo]

I have a Coleman lantern & gas stove but am just a little bit uneasy around pressurised flammables. I guess part of it comes from my dad telling me about catching his face on fire once from a malfunctioning blow torch.

While the kero lanterns produce less light than gasoline lanterns I can think of a few things in their favor from a "hard times" perspective:
They are simpler, and require fewer spare parts.
Wicks are more durable than mantles and possible easier to obtain.
Kerosene may be more easy to obtain and I'd guess would be cheaper.

Slightly off topic, but it seems like a good place to ask this, Does anybody know how to remove the dye from dyed kerosene, as it can clog the wicks.

[KnightoftheRoc]

I have a Coleman lantern & gas stove but am just a little bit uneasy around pressurised flammables. I guess part of it comes from my dad telling me about catching his face on fire once from a malfunctioning blow torch.

While the kero lanterns produce less light than gasoline lanterns I can think of a few things in their favor from a "hard times" perspective:
They are simpler, and require fewer spare parts.
Wicks are more durable than mantles and possible easier to obtain.
Kerosene may be more easy to obtain and I'd guess would be cheaper.

Slightly off topic, but it seems like a good place to ask this, Does anybody know how to remove the dye from dyed kerosene, as it can clog the wicks.

I've never experienced this wick clogging, but then, I seldom buy "lamp oil", as K1 is cheaper in bulk, and easier to store that way. I think that maybe distillation would be the only way outside of a lab to do this, but I've never tried it, and considering the materials, wouldn't. A wick can be made from old rags, rope, or almost anything else- repairing the damage to property or people from a kerosene distillation mishap, not so much. Being a light oil, Kerosene needs to be either atomized, or wicked, in order to light it on fire, under normal circumstances. Heating it up to a boiling point in order to distill the vapors might bring you into "flammable vapors" territory, not to mention be probably more expensive in heating fuel than extra wicks would ever be. If foreign matter content is a real concern, I'd use several coffee filters in a funnel, and slowly filter the suspect oil into a clean container.

Oh, and stop buying the dyed stuff?

[111t]

I have noticed that undyed kerosene burns better in my space heaters. Around here some of the gas stations sell dyed and some sell clear. I only buy the clear. Kerosene is an ideal storage fuel due to its cheap cost and lower volatility of the fuel. At any one time I have 4-5 gallons of coleman fuel on hand but at least 20 gallons of kerosene. None of it should be stored in the house but bulk storage of gasoline type fuels is asking for it even out in the shed. Additionally coleman fuelled appliances should not be used indoors. Kerosene appliances are generally much safer just keep a fire extinguisher handy in case of mechanical failures.

I remember clearly a story on another forum where the person was using a coleman suitcase stove outdoors and very suddenly and without warning the generator tube cracked along its entire length. A large fireball resulted. Lickily this took place outdoors with enough time for him to retreat to the house for a fire extinguisher. If it happened indoors...

Carbon monoxide is a factor with both kerosene and coleman fuel that said I've never tripped my detector by burning kerosene pressure stoves indoors. Ventilation is a must.

[KnightoftheRoc]

I have noticed that undyed kerosene burns better in my space heaters. Around here some of the gas stations sell dyed and some sell clear. I only buy the clear. Kerosene is an ideal storage fuel due to its cheap cost and lower volatility of the fuel. At any one time I have 4-5 gallons of coleman fuel on hand but at least 20 gallons of kerosene. None of it should be stored in the house but bulk storage of gasoline type fuels is asking for it even out in the shed. Additionally coleman fuelled appliances should not be used indoors. Kerosene appliances are generally much safer just keep a fire extinguisher handy in case of mechanical failures.

I remember clearly a story on another forum where the person was using a coleman suitcase stove outdoors and very suddenly and without warning the generator tube cracked along its entire length. A large fireball resulted. Lickily this took place outdoors with enough time for him to retreat to the house for a fire extinguisher. If it happened indoors...

Carbon monoxide is a factor with both kerosene and coleman fuel that said I've never tripped my detector by burning kerosene pressure stoves indoors. Ventilation is a must.

K1 is the clear stuff, and is regulated, so you can be pretty assured of a consistent quality. The only dependable source I've been able to locate in my area has been the HESS station- for some reason, there are less places handling it now. Be sure you have a YELLOW BLUE container when you pump it- they've gotten to be real sticklers on this. I wouldn't put it past them to call the cops on you as you leave.

edited to correct container color- don't know why I posted that ass-backwards

[111t]

My containers are blue. I always thought yellow was diesel. Hmmm.

[willo]

I have a blue plastic container with the word "Kerosene" molded into it by the manufacturing process; but as to the legalities I wouldn't dare to offer an opinion.

There's a good deal of technical info re lamp & lantern fuels on the W.T. Kirkman website, www.lanternnet.com but they aren't geared towards anything not strictly "off the shelf".

Certainly, if given the choice I'd use clear kero, but worse come to worse the dyed stuff might be the only kind available in one's circumstances and replacing clogged wicks is much simpler than setting up a refinery. I'd guess it might be possible to clean clogged wicks with a lighter solvent and let them dry for reuse.

I've heard of winos straining sterno through bread and teenagers using salt on hand sanitiser (in a purely hypothetical situation, no intent to encourage illegal behavior intended) and I'm no chemist, but I'd think that the dye could be removed by some method short of distillation.

[KnightoftheRoc]

My mistake, Kerosene IS a blue container- #2 fuel oil is the yellow. Mine is also blue, and I have no idea why I typed yellow for it. My apologies for any confusion.

[111t]

The color is a valid point to bring up though as many of the multifuel stoves have confusing non compliant colors. If I had my primus omnifuel and found myself at a gas station that sold kerosene (even dyed kerosene) I would much prefer that to ordinary auto fuel. Yet the msr and primus bottles are red. I suppose I could paint it if I was always running kero, but I traditionally run coleman while backpacking. Very confusing. I've never been in a position to argue it with a clerk though.

[ElevenBravo]

Before I saw the pix, I had to google "tubular lantern".... Then I realized you were talking about hurricane lanterns.

[williaty]

Not all things labeled K1 are actually what you want to burn in a lamp or a heater and not all things that are labeled K1 are undyed. Hell, there's undyed kero labeled K1 around here that's STILL nasty crap.
Edited to add: this is because the correct phrasing of the grade is "1-K" but the dealers often realize that people don't really pay attention to that and will sell whatever they feel like as "K1", relying on people's ignorance.

The magic words are "1-K Water Clear". That's really the only thing you want to burn if you can possibly find it. It's worth the (considerable) price premium. It's a very, very pure product with very little in it except the desired hydrocarbons. It'll stink less, smoke less, and will go 5-10x as long before requiring you to burn the wick dry and crunch off the tar. I would also add that it is a good idea to buy this in small cans, such as the 5gal cans from Crown, or go direct to a dealer of bulk fuels who supplies Amish communities. That's the most reliable way to get the highest quality stuff.

With dyed pump kero, you'd need to burn dry the wick and crunch off the tar every 4-5 gallons on something like a 23kBTU convection heater. That's literally every day if you're running it 24/7. Burning it dry is a stinky, smoky, time-consuming process, plus it wastes fuel. So for a couple of hours each day, the heater needs to be outside the house burning dry so you can do maintenance on it. With 1-K Water Clear kero, you can easily get 30-50 gallons through the same heater with less smell/smoke on startup/shutdown plus MUCH less tar in the wick even at the extended cleaning interval.

You should check out Miles Stair's website about heaters. Guy is a certified nutter, even by prepper standards, but has an astonishingly wonderful knowledge of kerosene heaters and lamps.

[KnightoftheRoc]

You should check out Miles Stair's website about heaters. Guy is a certified nutter, even by prepper standards, but has an astonishingly wonderful knowledge of kerosene heaters and lamps

This just goes to show you, that you can learn something from nearly anyone- finding WHAT is the challenge.

Good points raised there on the quality issue. I've had good experience so far with my local Hess station, but I have run into issues with other companies in the past. They weren't big issues, for me, since we were using it as an expedient replacement or supplement to #2 fuel oil, with my plumbing business. Running "K1", no matter how pure on not, through an oil burner, is a good clean alternative to the normal oil- but that has no smoke going into the house unless there's other issues at play.

[Xandur]

I just purchased 2 of these lanterns and a replacement globe. The replacement globe is MUCH lighter and thinner than the other two (18.5oz vs 10oz). I'm not exactly happy about it considering the replacement globes is going to be much easier to break. Of course, I don't plan on breaking them, but in a long term off grid scenario I like as much redundancy as possible. I suspect making the globes thinner and lighter is a cost saving measure by WT Kirkman. I'm told the 18.5 oz globes I received was an error and that they "slipped through quality control" and that "the specification calls for 10 to 12 oz" globes.

I'm curious if anybody has any WT Kirkman #2 lanterns out there and what the weight of their globes are... are they 18.5 oz or 10 oz?

And if they globes are all of a sudden lighter and thinner it begs the questions, if the globes are being made differently to save money, what other shortcuts are being made?

[FraterLVX]

I'm curious if anybody has any WT Kirkman #2 lanterns out there and what the weight of their globes are... are they 18.5 oz or 10 oz?

My #2 Champion, ordered and shipped in April 2009, has a 15.1oz globe and is marked:

Code: Select all

W.T. KIRKMAN
REG'D U.S. PAT. OFF.


This globe feels distinctly overbuilt; I think the 12oz weight would be more fitting. I'd have to hold a 10oz to see what I thought about that.

And if they globes are all of a sudden lighter and thinner it begs the questions, if the globes are being made differently to save money, what other shortcuts are being made?

Sounds to me like globe weights are all over the place. I suspect this is partially due to crudeness of globe production and partially changing suppliers. I bet if you emailed Mr. Kirkman he might supply more info.

I don't worry that other bits (other than wick) are altered; wouldn't the machinery have to be reworked to change the basic lantern?

Regardless, I took the opportunity to wash the globe and light the lantern on the porch. Thanks for making me dust it off. I'd been burning a 1940s Dietz recently.

[Resolute]

Just found this thread and thought it was awesome.

On topic - I got two lanterns, made by Feuerhand, in the galvanized look. They retail for $30 but bought them for $13 during a sale at Lehman's. They're pretty awesome, nicely robust/overbuilt, and they look great.

Anyone heard of this company or had any experience with them? It looks like they're all made in Germany, and the quality shows.



Also, I've seen some people put the lit wick above the half-dome, and some people put the wick below, barely protruding from the place where the wheel that advances the wick is. I don't know the technical terms. Which wick placement is correct? Should you be able to see it above that dome thing that has a slit in it where you can see the flame, or should it be deeper inside that thing?